Another SQ vs thread

[Sparda]

I've been wondering about this for a while but never actually asked it before. For those with a Hi-MD unit and the S7xx or A8xx series, how do they compare SQ wise? Is the amp 100% noiseless (no hiss) on the flash players? How about the detail of the sound (are the highs clear and defined, and the lows powerful and tight)? How's the soundstage? Are the Clear Bass, Clear Stereo and DSEE actually useful? I'm just curious here. Would love replys from everyone.

Edit: Fixed spelling.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Sparda

[juli_]

I've been wondering about this for a while but never actually asked it before. For those with a Hi-MD unit and the S7xx or A8xx series, how do they compare SQ wise? Is the amp 100% noiseless (no hiss) on the flash players? How about the detail of the sound (are the highs clear and defined, and the lows powerful and tight)? How's the soundstage? Are the Clear Bass, Clear Stereo and DSEE actually useful? I'm just curious here. Would love replys from everyone.

Edit: Fixed spelling.

I haven't got an Hi-MD but I've got the 706 and the new A808 and have to say i much prefer the sound of the 706!! Soundstage is the same as the 706 but the whole tonal sound is different to me. The 706 is full bodied and addictive and the 808 is much sharper so that I kept trying to EQ to make it sound more rounded, but I couldn't do it. Volume is the same on both models - I listened with Shure E4 and set the volume at 17 for both of them - and the volume was exactly the same. Then I tried a friend's Sennheiser's with the A808, and of course it made the sound feel much warmer than the Shure E4s, but I don't like the Sennheisers because I get much less detail from them.

As for hiss - I get about the same amount as the 706 (no matter what headphones I use) but it's no problem for me as it disappears once the music starts.

I also tried the Zen Vision M alongside the 706 and 808 and in my opinion the Zen scored 3 out of 10 in comparison, meaning the 808 still has great quality sound, but it was just too sharp for me - and there's definitely less bass in them. Before anyone disagrees with that - it's just my opinion based on the players and headphones I used. I was surprised the Zen sounded so awful side by side - volume was much lower, soundstage much smaller, and clarity was definitely not nearly as good as the Sony's. Like I said, the headphones change the tone anyway - but the E4s matched with the A808 was a horrible experience that made me want to stick chopsticks in my eyes and then get flattened by a bus to put me out my pain - and the Sennheisers are a no-no if I want absolute detail, which I do!

I've just ordered a used NW-HD5 because from what I've read - the tone is very close to the 706.

Hope that's helped a bit - or confused you

Edited June 18, 2007 by juli

[Sparda]

It was very entertaining to read, thanks for the reply.

[DSP]

Well,

I have owned several MD units (and Hi-MD units) and I must say that I like the NW-A800 better.

It comes very close to what I've been used form MD. I've had a MZ-NH900 and the details were always soo clean crisp and sharp.

I think NW-A800 resembles this best. Clearbass works very good. It gives a very nice and smooth ''clear'' bass response.

I think NW-S700 (wich I own) sounds too muddied and has no detail like NW-A800.

greetz

[Richard]

Well,

I have owned several MD units (and Hi-MD units) and I must say that I like the NW-A800 better.

It comes very close to what I've been used form MD. I've had a MZ-NH900 and the details were always soo clean crisp and sharp.

I think NW-A800 resembles this best. Clearbass works very good. It gives a very nice and smooth ''clear'' bass response.

I think NW-S700 (wich I own) sounds too muddied and has no detail like NW-A800.

greetz

I don't own the NW-S7x series either, but come to the NW-Axxx from an MD background too. I agree that the A800 series sounds very decent indeed. Clear Bass is pretty good (although it sounds about the same as setting the equivalent normal bass setting on an MD unit with an HD Amp), Clear Stereo also is useful and sounds pretty good. DSEE I can't really make a lot of use of - it does make a little difference on some MP3 podcasts, but as most of my music is 352k Atrac I never use it.

I think HD-Amp'ed Hi-MD units like the EH1 and DH10P may have some edge over the A800, but the A800 more than holds its own against a lot of MD players and is one of the best sounding portable players out there.

(My Atrac tracks still sound the best on the Onkyo Hi-MD home system though ),

[juli_]

I don't own the NW-S7x series either, but come to the NW-Axxx from an MD background too. I agree that the A800 series sounds very decent indeed. Clear Bass is pretty good (although it sounds about the same as setting the equivalent normal bass setting on an MD unit with an HD Amp), Clear Stereo also is useful and sounds pretty good. DSEE I can't really make a lot of use of - it does make a little difference on some MP3 podcasts, but as most of my music is 352k Atrac I never use it.

I think HD-Amp'ed Hi-MD units like the EH1 and DH10P may have some edge over the A800, but the A800 more than holds its own against a lot of MD players and is one of the best sounding portable players out there.

(My Atrac tracks still sound the best on the Onkyo Hi-MD home system though ),

It's impossible for any of us to 'hear' exactly the same sound unless the same headphones, bitrates etc are being used with both units! I think the 706 is wonderfully clear with the Shure E4 - and piercingly sharp with the 808 using the same phones.

They both have excellent separation and soundstage (compared to other units I have tried like the Zen Vision M) but some users have commented the 808 has less bass. I noticed that myself although it didn't detract from it at all as it's still there, just not so prominent and as you said - the clear bass is great and works very well. Again, it's all subjective isn't it?

It might help for people to say which headphones they're using with which models to try to see if we're 'hearing' the same sound, as like I stated before, switching headphones also affects the sound quite dramatically. Either way, I love the Sony sound and wouldn't buy a different brand. In my opinion, I want SQ first, and that's why I'll continue to use (and weep with frustration!!) sonicstage. If the Sony sound wasn't so brilliant I'd have switched brands a long time ago!

Edited June 21, 2007 by juli

[markey]

It's impossible for any of us to 'hear' exactly the same sound unless the same headphones, bitrates etc are being used with both units! I think the 706 is wonderfully clear with the Shure E4 - and piercingly sharp with the 808 using the same phones.

They both have excellent separation and soundstage (compared to other units I have tried like the Zen Vision M) but some users have commented the 808 has less bass. I noticed thay myself although it didn't detract from it at all as it's still there, just not so prominent and as you said - the clear bass is great and works very well. Again, it's all subjective isn't it?

It might help for people to say which headphones they're using with which models to try to see if we're 'hearing' the same sound, as like I stated before, switching headphones also affecs the sound quite dramatically. Either way, I love the Sony sound and wouldn't buy a different brand. In my opinion, I want SQ first, and that's why I'll continue to use (and weep with frustration!!) sonicstage. If the Sony sound wasn't so brilliant I'd have switched brands a long time ago!

I couldn't agree more with the above. Both the S7xx range and A8xx range have excellent seperation and soundstage. The A8xx in my opinion has a more detailed sound signature while the S7xx has a lot more bass. They are both excellent units, though sounding very different to one another.

Edited June 7, 2007 by ANGRYBADGER

[Richard]

It might help for people to say which headphones they're using with which models to try to see if we're 'hearing' the same sound, as like I stated before, switching headphones also affecs the sound quite dramatically.

Indeed it is all subjective, for what it's worth I was comparing my Hi-MD units and A808 by using the EX082 / Stanton DJ Pro 60's / SA5000's on each. (Tested same series of phones on each unit).

[juli_]

I couldn't agree more with the above. Both the S7xx range and A8xx range have excellent seperation and soundstage. The A8xx in my opinion has a more detailed sound signature while the S7xx has a lot more bass. They are both excellent units, though sounding very different to one another.

Well, I'm going to get the shure se420 next and test the 808 again as I think the phones might be 'warmer' than the E4 and I won't feel as if the 'detail' is too piercing. In fact, someone else mentioned that the 808 with the Shure E4 sounds too analytical and a bit bright - which was exactly my experience

That's purely on how those particular phones sound with that particular model. As the SE420 isn't out for another month, I'm going to reserve final judgement until I've done another comparison!! I want to like the 808 I really do!

[dura_]

In fact, someone else mentioned that the 808 with the Shure E4 sounds too analytical and a bit bright - which was exactly my experience

That was me.

Strangely, I either got used to it or the firmware 1.02 update chanced something, or the unit got burned in or whatever, for I'm quite happy with the sound now and don't feel the need to Eq anymore on this combination (but I use DSEE, that makes the treble smoother, even at my ATRAC 256 kbs tracks).

BTW, a very pleasant and affordable portable open phone that goes well with the 8xx is the Sennheiser px100, I often use it at home for listeing in bed with the A808.

[Sparda]

I feel tempted to get the A808 as I've never gotten a DAP with a colour screen before. And I think that it looks solid and nice, but would love a Pro Duo slot on it. I'm sure Sony is getting to it, as this would be their first attempt at a video DAP, no? They probably don't want to bring it all out on the first one.

[juli_]

a very pleasant and affordable portable open phone that goes well with the 8xx is the Sennheiser px100, I often use it at home for listeing in bed with the A808.

Edited June 8, 2007 by juli

[Pander]

Would like to recommend pairing the NW-A800 with the AKG K26P, they form a great team!The closed-back design gives the deepest, cleanest bass I've ever heard in a pair of portables.

[juli_]

Would like to recommend pairing the NW-A800 with the AKG K26P, they form a great team!The closed-back design gives the deepest, cleanest bass I've ever heard in a pair of portables.

My friend has those phones, I'll have to borrow them and see. It's amazing what difference the headphones make - I think that's why we're all 'hearing' something slightly different from the 808.

I made a very interesting observation today with the 800 against the 706 - as some people mentioned that the the 706 was 'muddy' and didn't have as much clarity as the 808 (which I didn't feel at all). Anyway, at the beginning of the track 'Longer Boats' from 'Tea for the Tillerman' (before the guitar starts) one of the musicians clearly says: "From the beginning". . . and then the guitar starts, and the voice is very clearly heard on the 706.

On the 808, you can only just hear it if you are listening for it carefully - and both players are set at the same loudness. I know it doesn't seem much of an issue - but if I can hear the voice louder and clearer on the 706 - doesn't that mean the detail is better on the 706? The music is all playing at the same volume so it's not that.

Not trying to start an argument about which player is better as that's down to personal preference and headphones - by the way my boyfriend has everything ripped at 128 on his Zen and uses some awful headphones that I think he got for about 10 dollars in Canada, and he's more than happy with the 'quality'. . . whereas I just wanted to kill myself (and then him) when I heard it - that's what I mean about personal preference.

I'm just curious as I'm still comparing the 808 with the 706 and at the moment, I'm still hearing more detail with the 706, whereas I still feel the 808 sound is too harsh no matter what eq settings I use. I don't think the 706 is overly bassy at all, I think it has a wonderfully rich sound without compromising the detail at all. I'm going to continue comparing the 2 over the weekend, and post my opinions after.

Also, I found the 'storm' from 'Riders on the Storm' more involving on the 706. Like I said I really want to love the 808 as much as the 706 so I will perservere!

[juli_]

Indeed it is all subjective, for what it's worth I was comparing my Hi-MD units and A808 by using the EX082 / Stanton DJ Pro 60's / SA5000's on each.

Can I ask what you thought of the E500 combination with the A808? I only used them with the 706 and sent them back as the 706 is full sounding anyway, and the E500's made them sound too warm. Does it make the 808 less 'sharp' sounding? Like I said I'm using the E4s at the moment and they're well known for their 'brightness' - so although they're acceptable on the 706, they're just too shrill on the 808.

Edited June 8, 2007 by juli

[Richard]

Indeed it is all subjective, for what it's worth I was comparing my Hi-MD units and A808 by using the EX082 / Stanton DJ Pro 60's / SA5000's on each.

Can I ask what you thought of the E500 combination with the A808? I only used them with the 706 and sent them back as the 706 is full sounding anyway, and the E500's made them sound too warm. Does it make the 808 less 'sharp' sounding? Like I said I'm using the E4s at the moment and they're well known for their 'brightness' - so although they're acceptable on the 706, they're just too shrill on the 808.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me? I don't have the E500's?

[juli_]

I'm not sure if you are referring to me? I don't have the E500's?

Sorry - I misread SA5000 for E500!!

[aob9]

I own both the NW-S703 and the NW-A805. I listen to both units with my Seinheisser CX-300 'phones. I love these 'phones as they are tiny and provide excellent clarity and bass for the price. All my music is ripped at MP3 192kbps. I agree with a lot of the comments here that the A80* sound is sharper than the S703. I find I use more bass on the A805 to get the same sound.I will try the 'Riders on the Storm' test when I get home.

[juli_]

STOP PRESS!!! I just tweaked the EQ on the 808 and now have to say that "Riders on the Storm" is just as involving and I've even managed to reduce the harshness. Really beginning to like the sound now but still doing comparisons. . .

My 706 EQ is set to flat but with clear bass up by 1 notch.

On 808 it is set to clear bass up 2 notches, then from left to right, it is 0 0 -1 -1 0

They're the settings I use to get the most 'pleasing' sound through my headphones (which like I said can be a bit cold), and this helps to tone the 'shrillness' down.

With Sennheisers I tend to leave the EQ off both units as I find they're warmer anyway.

Like to know the results of "Riders on the Storm" - I mentioned earlier that on the Zen Vision, the storm was so faint I didn't even know there'd been a storm!

OK, off to do more comparisons )

I've got all my stuff ripped about 300, 'cos I don't have more than 12GB of music anyway, and I've got that with both the Sonys, so I'm guessing there might be more detail in 'Riders' with the higher bitrate. Anyway, be interesting to compare results and opinions!

[aob9]

Okay, I just tried 'Riders on the Storm' with both the S703 and the A805.The EQ was off and I used my Seinnheiser CX300's. The A805 is indeed slightly louder and sharper than the S703. However, I have to admit that a little tweek of the bass and volume almost brings it into line with S703. Of the two I prefer the 'warmer' sound of the S703.

How is it that two devices released so closely together can have a different soundstage?

[juli_]

Of the two I prefer the 'warmer' sound of the S703. How is it that two devices released so closely together can have a different soundstage?

I meant to tell you that I have dynamic normaliser activated in both units - it makes a difference to the volume and tone (plus no shock with louder tracks over quiet). If you have time, try the track again with the normalisers on (unless they're already set)

I also found that tweaking the 808 helped improve it - I compared 'People are Strange' (Doors) on both units and my 808 tweaks have made it sound better than the 706, warmer (on that track anyway). I think the tweaking is really useful

I've been listening with the 808s for a few straight hours, and am kind of warming to the sound now that it's been tweaked. I think it's cos I cut some frequencies instead of adding to them (I read somewhere it was often better to that as the effect is the same but without any clipping), but anyway, it is defo louder!!!

[juli_]

How is it that two devices released so closely together can have a different soundstage?

[DSP]

well,

I really do think NW-A800 sounds btter than NW-S700. I really found NW-S700 compared directly to NW-A800 sounded muddy and undetailled in some way.

It's a bit like music playing in a vacuum. Also I found there was more hiss and litlle soundstage then NW-A800.

I must say I have tweaked my NW-A800. First, I loaded new FW wich improved the overall soundquality in a surprisingly positive way!

Then I tweaked the EQ. I listen to rock music, heavy metal, soft rock so very strong music genres. But I also listen to powerballads and normal ballads, or harmonic and acoustic music. These require a good soundstage yet a powerfull and clear detailled sound.

So this is what I set my NW-A800 (FW 1.02):

EQ: CB +3 / +2 / +1 / +2 / +1 / +2

CS: on

VPT: off

DN: off

DSEE: off

Somebody mentioned the clipping phenomen. I've read many articles about this to, especially since I'm with a radio station. But the equalizers on DAP's are actually kind of ''made'' to be pushed up. The manufacturer knows people are gonna push them up, so they made sure that it's possible without clipping or any other distortions. One company does this better than another. But I find My NW-A800 doing a goo djob at it!

greetz

Edited June 25, 2007 by DSP

[Pander]

Had the chance to compare my nw-a808 with a nw-S700. Had the same sound experience as DSP wrote about, and do also prefer the NW-A800 SQ.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Pander

[drmoze]

well,

I really do think NW-A800 sounds btter than NW-S700. I really found NW-S700 compared directly to NW-A800 sounded muddy and undetailled in some way.

It's a bit like music playing in a vacuum. Also I found there was more hiss and litlle soundstage then NW-A800.

I must say I have tweaked my NW-A800. First, I loaded new FW wich improved the overall sound quality in a surprisingly positive way!

Then I tweaked the EQ. I listen to rock music, heavy metal, soft rock so very strong music genres. But I also listen to powerballads and normal ballads, or harmonic and acoustic music. These require a good soundstage yet a powerfull and clear detailled sound.

Just curious--have you also tweaked the NW-S700 to get the best sound? I have not yet gotten my hands on an NW-A800, but I was wondering if it sounds that much better than an NW-S700, which to my ears sounds very clear ad detailed. (I was using an HD5 and an NW-E107 before, with various headphones.) The NW-S player does have a lot of complementary tweaks--ClearBass, eq, VPT (Virtual *Phone* Technology??!?!??), dynamic normalization.... I still play with them a bit, based on the source material (which is all over the map for me), but the sound is clearer to me than any player I've listened to, even the earlier SOny models.

[juli_]

Just curious--have you also tweaked the NW-S700 to get the best sound? I have not yet gotten my hands on an NW-A800, but I was wondering if it sounds that much better than an NW-S700, which to my ears sounds very clear ad detailed. (I was using an HD5 and an NW-E107 before, with various headphones.) The NW-S player does have a lot of complementary tweaks--ClearBass, eq, VPT (Virtual *Phone* Technology??!?!??), dynamic normalization.... I still play with them a bit, based on the source material (which is all over the map for me), but the sound is clearer to me than any player I've listened to, even the earlier SOny models.

I still maintain (for me) that the 706 has better sound quality and more clarity than the 808. The 808 is sharp sounding, but that doesn't mean it is more detailed than the 706 - it's just sharper. I regrettably sold my 706, but before I sold it, I tested a few tracks that I know very well on each unit, and the 706 produced more detail than the 808. Certain vocals that were clearly audible on the 706 were quiet and muffled on the 808. At first I perceived the extra sharpness of the 808 as providing extra detail, unitl I compared them side by side.

I'm adapting to the 808 as I have no choice, but I miss the clarity and fullness of the 706. The 808 is a good player, no doubt about it, it's very different sounding to the 706 - but it depends on the sound you like to hear.

I also found that the 706 EQ was much more efficient than the 808. I could tweak the 706 and get perfect sound, but I can't quite tweak the EQ on the 808 to my satisfaction, I keep having to change it for different styles of music, whereas the 706 I could leave pretty well alone once I'd 'tweaked'.

Interesting to hear the different views on the 808 SQ

[Shinji Ikeda]

Just curious--have you also tweaked the NW-S700 to get the best sound? I have not yet gotten my hands on an NW-A800, but I was wondering if it sounds that much better than an NW-S700, which to my ears sounds very clear ad detailed. ...

The sound difference between the NW-S700 and NW-A800 is not significant. The sound settings EQ settings for both models are identical. More owners of the NW-S700 and NW-A800 seem to prefer the NW-A800. It may be only 51-49.

[juli_]

The sound difference between the NW-S700 and NW-A800 is not significant. The sound settings EQ settings for both models are identical. More owners of the NW-S700 and NW-A800 seem to prefer the NW-A800. It may be only 51-49.

A lot of people agree the sound signatures are very different - that's not in dispute, one is full and rich, the other sharper/brighter. I'd say the difference in sound is very significant. It's not about which one is 'better', as that's a personal preference - but they are definitely not similar in sound. The EQ settings might be the same, but the overall tonal sound of each player is very different

Edited June 26, 2007 by juli

[Shinji Ikeda]

A lot of people agree the sound signatures are very different - that's not in dispute, one is full and rich, the other sharper/brighter. I'd say the difference in sound is very significant. It's not about which one is 'better', as that's a personal preference - but they are definitely not similar in sound.

The EQ settings might be the same, but the overall tonal sound of each player is very different

Unfortunately, I am in the minority on this issue. I own both the NW-A808 and NW-S706F, both of which I use everyday. The music and other audio tracks are almost identical on both models, with the NW-A808 have more audio casts (the main reason I purchased). So, I hope that some understand my perception.

[ender325_]

I still don't see what I would love to see...a thread comparing the E01x series vs. the S70x and A80x series. Still...I love the S70x sound, compared to the E507, the S70x series are full of detail, booming bass and clarity. It's even clearer than the sound of my Vaio!