aznbro85's NWZ-A818 Review

[ceres]

@ ceres,

Thanks for the question. It was my first time using iTunes in a few years, and at first I didn't choose the gapless setting in the file properties. I did find it and I selected it, and I retransfered those tracks onto the player, but the playback is STILL gapped

--------------------

i DID figure out yet another thing that might help other users (an answer to matty84 question a few posts up)

I added artwork to all the tracks of one cd within iTunes, and I dragged and dropped those files into the MUSIC directory of the player.

The AAC files worked, AND the album art was retained. So I guess in iTunes they do embed the album art into each track?

But yeah, when I imported the whole album folder and played it on the player, the album art did show up when i loaded it into iTunes.

Oh, and before anybody asks, the player does NOT show up in iTunes

That´s good news bc when you manually add cover art it is indeed embedded. However, in case you just import a cd the file remains unchanged. Itunes uses a database file to link cover art.

In order to properly retrieve and add album art I recommend mp3 tag from www.mp3tag.de

As far as I can see what needs to be done is support for winamp playlists and gapless playback.

Edited September 3, 2007 by ceres

[Ascariss]

all complilations are mixed and therefore must be ripped using a gapless option.

bow if cue files worked with the player, then that would be awesome.

any idea how hard it would be to make a modification to the firmware in order for gapless support or even support for other codecs to be available?

[aznbro85]

Sonicstage cannot play AAC (.3gp) gaplesly, but the S70x series can.

Bummer huh, no gapless. Sony took 1 step forward, and 5 steps backward, as always. It is ironic that in the beginning, iPods are heavily criticized for not having gapless playback ability. Now, it is one of the few that support gapless playback. Can't wait for September 5th.

Thanks a lot for doing the tests.

@ pata2001:

I wouldn't say 1 step forward, 5 steps backwards... I'd say 1 step forward, 1 step back, i guess

Before MP3, WMAs and AACs were wrapped in ATRAC DRM

Now it gets supported via drag & drop, as well as software other than SonicStage (I personally had no problem with sonicstage, and i think a lot of you guys here are too, but for the average consumer when they saw "SonicStage", they immediately changed their mind about the item.)

At least now, these new walkmans should be much more competitive.

Now it's time for sony to actually PROMOTE these players!

And i don't know, but other than in DAP forums, most people don't seem to mind whether something is gapless or gapped. With the age of iPods, most people seem to be more "song" oriented, and less "album-oriented". I think us album people are more of the minority. Rarely do people sit though a whole album. I'm kind of surprised/saddened that Sony didn't try to update their framework so that all other formats other than ATRAC were gapless.

-------------------------------------

Oh, and here's some new information that you guys might be interested in.

I finally got a quick install of ubuntu up, to see if this player plays nicely with linux (at least the ubuntu distro of linux)

Goes into "Connecting" mode, instead of "Connecting USB MTP" mode.

indeed it does.

Edited September 3, 2007 by aznbro85

[Akai Kenshi]

That´s good news bc when you manually add cover art it is indeed embedded. However, in case you just import a cd the file remains unchanged. Itunes uses a database file to link cover art.

In order to properly retrieve and add album art I recommend mp3 tag from www.mp3tag.de

As far as I can see what needs to be done is support for winamp playlists and gapless playback.

Thanks ceres, that program really makes up for Nero's lack of any sort of tagging system as far a I can tell.

So, logic leads me to conclude that if LAME and iTunes encoded files with gapless options won't play gapless, then my Nero Digital files with the "remove silence" option selected won't either. *sigh*

A bit of a tangent, but does anyone know what kind of AAC encoder comes with Sony Media Manager?

[ceres]

AZNBRO85, no need to install ubuntu. You could have just booted the live environment. Anyway, can you please move some mp3s over to the walkman using linux? Thanks so much!

For me the player is 3 steps forward, 0.025 back as I don´t own a gapless album so that this particular function doesn´t matter.

However, I deem it likely that one can buy a 16gig flash player for almost the same price in the not so distant future. So as far as pricing goes, even considering the S premium, it´s a step back. Which in summation leaves 1.75 steps forward (to me)

Akai Kenshi, mp3.tag is probably the best tagger out there but you can configure nero digital to write tags, of course.

I recommend dbpoweramp as a gui for nero aac and for ripping / encoding in general. You can easily configure it to make use of nero aac.

Edited September 3, 2007 by ceres

[aznbro85]

AZNBRO85, no need to install ubuntu. You could have just booted the live environment. Anyway, can you please move some mp3s over to the walkman using linux? Thanks so much!

For me the player is 3 steps forward, 0.025 back as I don´t own a gapless album so that this particular function doesn´t matter.

However, I deem it likely that one can buy a 16gig flash player for almost the same price in the not so distant future. So as far as pricing goes, even considering the S premium, it´s a step back. Which in summation leaves 1.75 steps forward (to me)

Akai Kenshi, mp3.tag is probably the best tagger out there but you can configure nero digital to write tags, of course.

I recommend dbpoweramp as a gui for nero aac and for ripping / encoding in general. You can easily configure it to make use of nero aac.

Even with the summation of 1.75 forward, it's still change in the positive direction, LOL

I myself don't have that many gapless albums either, so it's not that big of a deal to me either.

I know i could have booted off from the live cd, but I needed to get Ubuntu on my machine for school anyway, so I thought it was the best chance to try it out.

I currently am using a 'modified' version of Ubuntu, called "Wubi Ubuntu" It can be found at http://wubi-installer.org/

I like Wubi because it installs in windows and uses a "emulated" partition and it allows you to dual-boot. And, when you're tired of it, you can easily uninstall it by going to Add/Remove programs in Windows. And it's compatible with windows vista

It took me a little while to find and figure out how to rip into MP3 in Ubuntu, but I currently have KAudioConverter running and I should have updated news for you within the next half hour

Cheers

EDIT: 3:36PM PST

Ok, so I got KAudioConverter and I ripped one of my cds...

Worked like a charm

So to sum it up, drag and drop DOES work outside the realm of Windows-land

And I apologize for my extraorbitant amount of pictures, I guess i just want to cover all my bases to prove that I did try out suggestions and show the outcome to you guys, instead of just telling you.

Cheers =)

Edited September 3, 2007 by aznbro85

[tonyjaa]

Finally somebody bought it. Thanks a lot for the pdf manual! So it is an MTP device, not UMS, not usable outside XP/Vista.

And man, Sony USA just cannot hide their hatred towards Kanji (in this case Japanese).

Taken from the manual:

What is that supposed to mean? So even if the device supports it, they still have to put a disclaimer like that.

Has anyone here with the A818 tried MP3 with embedded Japanese (Kanji) text. I'm really curious if US or UK models shows Japanese MP3 tags /text.

[ceres]

aznbro85, your review is truly inspiring.

I am wondering about one more thing, though.

Previously, I was under the impression that Chronicstage accounted for the bulk of nifty database features the A808 walkman offered.

To figure out whether Sony succeeded in farming those out to hardware it would be really kind of you to rip a few more cds lets say from the same year (glad to see that full tags are shown via ums!) and artist. Then from the now playing screen scroll down to year or artist and have a look whether the other transferred tracks show up. In my opinion one of the main staples of the A8 series is the ability to quickly move around the player w/o needless backtracking.

Thank you!

[pata2001]

okay I see. when I tick gapless when I import can I force gapless playback?

How many gapless albums are out there? As far as I can see gapless applies mostly to live albums and classical music, no?

Gapless playback in iTunes/iPod is automatic. If the CD is not gapless, then the tracks won't be gapless. How many gapless albums out there? How about a lot! I have many gapless Eurobeat non-stop mix albums.

[pata2001]

@ pata2001:

I wouldn't say 1 step forward, 5 steps backwards... I'd say 1 step forward, 1 step back, i guess

Before MP3, WMAs and AACs were wrapped in ATRAC DRM

Now it gets supported via drag & drop, as well as software other than SonicStage (I personally had no problem with sonicstage, and i think a lot of you guys here are too, but for the average consumer when they saw "SonicStage", they immediately changed their mind about the item.)

And i don't know, but other than in DAP forums, most people don't seem to mind whether something is gapless or gapped. With the age of iPods, most people seem to be more "song" oriented, and less "album-oriented". I think us album people are more of the minority. Rarely do people sit though a whole album. I'm kind of surprised/saddened that Sony didn't try to update their framework so that all other formats other than ATRAC were gapless.

-------------------------------------

Oh, and here's some new information that you guys might be interested in.

indeed it does.

Considering a freeware firmware like Rockbox, and Apple can implement gapless playback with common codecs like Lame MP3, I consider gapless as de-facto standard for a DAP, and one that doesn't support it is 5 steps backward. Again, people blamed iPods in the beginning for not having gapless playback, and yet now iPod support perfect gapless playback yet Sony dropped it. Also IMO iPods are nice for album oriented people, having the ability to shuffle by albums instead of songs. Sony used to be able to do that (the E99), but ever since then that feature is gone.

Sweet finding on the UMS capability! So the device will auto-switch from MTP to UMS depending on the OS. OK, 4 steps backward instead of 5.

[metal]

To me it is one step forward and more than one thousand steps backward. A DAP that cannot support gapless is pretty useless to me. Of course, that's just me and I am certainly in the minority crowd.

A slightly off topic:

@pata2001

how did ipod (I believe the latest generation only) support gapless, is it OK that we rip the CDs via iTunes to AAC or MP3 and transfer to ipod? Any special requirement (other than the songs are gapless of course)?

[pata2001]

A slightly off topic:

@pata2001

how did ipod (I believe the latest generation only) support gapless, is it OK that we rip the CDs via iTunes to AAC or MP3 and transfer to ipod? Any special requirement (other than the songs are gapless of course)?

So far, the only iPods that support gapless playback are: 5G (with firmware 1.2 or newer), 5.5G, 2G nano, and the iPhone. Gapless playback is automatic. The only requirements for gapless playback are:

1. The tracks are actually gapless from the CD (duh)

2. The tracks are ripped properly. (MP3 and AAC ripped via iTunes are gapless, Lame MP3 is gapless too).

3. Let iTunes scan the tracks for gapless information when importing the tracks (iTunes will automatically do this everytime you import songs, let it finish the process).

4. Play the songs as an album, or album shuffle. The tracks won't be gapless if you shuffle them by songs for obvious reason.

[aznbro85]

aznbro85, your review is truly inspiring.

I am wondering about one more thing, though.

Previously, I was under the impression that Chronicstage accounted for the bulk of nifty database features the A808 walkman offered.

To figure out whether Sony succeeded in farming those out to hardware it would be really kind of you to rip a few more cds lets say from the same year (glad to see that full tags are shown via ums!) and artist. Then from the now playing screen scroll down to year or artist and have a look whether the other transferred tracks show up. In my opinion one of the main staples of the A8 series is the ability to quickly move around the player w/o needless backtracking.

Thank you!

I figure for this one, a video will be in order, haha..

Just to forwarn you, I don't have the steadiest of hands, and the auto-focus is a little whack, as I am using a digicam, and not a dedicated cam-corder to do it. Also, the button clicks aren't that loud, just that camera's mic was very close to the buttons and it is pretty sensative as well.

I scrolled through year 2005 tracks that I had, which I had like 4 or 5 albums of at the time, lol...

After filtering through year, I tried out genre, and got back into the home menu before I turned the player off..

anyway, here's the link to check it out:

[metal]

@pata2001

Thanks for the detailed information.

Looks like my next DAP could be an iPod unless Sony do something about gapless.

[Guest Stuge]

@pata2001

Thanks for the detailed information.

Looks like my next DAP could be an iPod unless Sony do something about gapless.

everbody says that(even I have said that,but sound quality saves sony. .....hehee

[pata2001]

I figure for this one, a video will be in order, haha..

Cool! Nice job on the review, and thanks again for testing for gapless playback (something that is never done on 100% of professional reviews out there) albeit the disappointing result, plus a Linux test! (again, never done by professional reviews).

[aznbro85]

Has anyone here with the A818 tried MP3 with embedded Japanese (Kanji) text. I'm really curious if US or UK models shows Japanese MP3 tags /text.

Yes, indeed it does show japanese kanji

I tested out korean text during my initial post and it shows up without any problem as well.

@ pata2001:

Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate it. I noticed nobody else here wanted to be the 'guinea pig' of sorts, so I thought I'd try it out and inform the rest of the users at AtracLife about this new player with it's 'new' format

[metal]

everbody says that(even I have said that,but sound quality saves sony. .....hehee

of course, never say never. I can tolerate no ss/atrac but I can't tolerate no gapless. apart from ipod, the other option is to get hold of the last batch of sony atrac daps, like e01x series.

[Beethovenian]

I figure for this one, a video will be in order, haha..

Just to forwarn you, I don't have the steadiest of hands, and the auto-focus is a little whack, as I am using a digicam, and not a dedicated cam-corder to do it. Also, the button clicks aren't that loud, just that camera's mic was very close to the buttons and it is pretty sensative as well.

I scrolled through year 2005 tracks that I had, which I had like 4 or 5 albums of at the time, lol...

After filtering through year, I tried out genre, and got back into the home menu before I turned the player off..

anyway, here's the link to check it out:

This type of navigation was already in the A3000. It's one of the things I thought are much more intelligently done than the much-praised but severely dumbed down interface of the iPod. I hate how you have to backtrack so much to get to other artists, or even to get to the now playing screen, in the iPod. It's also very annoying how you can't immediately go back to the list of tracks you're listening to in the iPod if you browsed other albums before going back to the now playing screen. Another good thing in the Walkmans is how you can browse both horizontally (A, B, C etc.) and vertically. If the A3000 didn't have such slow response, it would be faster to get to certain albums with it than with the overrated scroll wheel of the iPod. Then again, I would not exchange my iPod for a new Walkman. The bigger capacity and the crucial gapless playback are more important factors.

[tonyjaa]

Yes, indeed it does show japanese kanji

I tested out korean text during my initial post and it shows up without any problem as well.

@ pata2001:

Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate it. I noticed nobody else here wanted to be the 'guinea pig' of sorts, so I thought I'd try it out and inform the rest of the users at AtracLife about this new player with it's 'new' format

Thanks for trying the Japanese Kanji tags. I do feel a bit upset that I brought a A808 from Hong Kong only a week ago only to learn that Sony is now releasing DAP without the non-unicode SonicStage. However I love the A800 series UI and sound quality. Oh well fingers crossed for a firmware update.

Edited September 4, 2007 by tonyjaa

[decoupe]

A808 is still promoted as a new walkman in Singapore. I do think by doing away with sonicstage it will appeal to a wider audience. Although I still looking forward to a higher capacity of 40 gigs, hope it will be available by the time it reaches our shores.

[pata2001]

This type of navigation was already in the A3000. It's one of the things I thought are much more intelligently done than the much-praised but severely dumbed down interface of the iPod. I hate how you have to backtrack so much to get to other artists, or even to get to the now playing screen, in the iPod. It's also very annoying how you can't immediately go back to the list of tracks you're listening to in the iPod if you browsed other albums before going back to the now playing screen.

Just in case you didn't know, pressing and holding down the menu button on the iPod will bring you right to the main screen. Plus you can customize the iPod's main menu for faster access on certain things.

[Beethovenian]

Just in case you didn't know, pressing and holding down the menu button on the iPod will bring you right to the main screen. Plus you can customize the iPod's main menu for faster access on certain things.

I know, but I still find the interface too dumbed down. You can go fast to the main menu, but that doesn't help you getting immediately back to the track list that you're currently listening to if you browsed away from it. You have to find your way back to that album. The Walkmans could implement many things in its interface in a better way, but still it allows you to view all tracks for the album, genre or artist you're currently listening with simple clicks. If you're listening to a playlist, for instance, and get in the mood to listen to more of the same artist that's playing, you just click on the name of the artist and jumps to his album list. Simple, intelligent. It's that type of interface that also makes me like Windows Media Player, despite its limitations. The iPod and iTunes go so much for the "simplicity" that it becomes dumb, making you do much more than it should be necessary for certain things.

[pata2001]

Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate it. I noticed nobody else here wanted to be the 'guinea pig' of sorts, so I thought I'd try it out and inform the rest of the users at AtracLife about this new player with it's 'new' format

You're welcome. Oh by the way, you made it into the front page. Next thing you know, you might be on digg.

[DSP]

Great review!!

To me it just seems an exact copy of the NW-A808 but without sonicstage and atrac.

I have just one BIG question that I want sorted out. Is it MTP or UMS? in other words, does it still only work on Windows or could I use it on my Mac too? (or perhaps linux)

thx!!

greetz!!

[pata2001]

I have just one BIG question that I want sorted out. Is it MTP or UMS? in other words, does it still only work on Windows or could I use it on my Mac too? (or perhaps linux)

Errr, he already tested the device with linux, and it works. Looks like the device is both MTP and UMS.

[aznbro85]

Errr, he already tested the device with linux, and it works. Looks like the device is both MTP and UMS.

Yep DSP, it does work on Linux, so I'm sure it should work on a Mac as well.

Check page 5 of this thread for some pics and screenshots I took of the player in UMS mode and in Ubuntu

[mdsjack]

Hi, great review!

One more effort: did you manage to play videos and pictures?

Will you please upload some close-up shots of the screen when viewing videos and images? (you may Pause the video)

Is it detailed enough to read subtitles? (thinking of Death Note anime and such) I'd like to have such information before buying one.

Edited September 5, 2007 by mdsjack

[pata2001]

Is it detailed enough to read subtitles? (thinking of Death Note anime and such) I'd like to have such information before buying one.

Subtitle on a 2" screen? It's doable, but IMO it won't be enjoyable.

[mdsjack]

I still couldn't judge the actual quality of the screen, all video rreviews on youtube are low quality.

It would be helpful to have a frame of a movie from nwz and compare it to the "original" one.

[DSP]

Ohh damn,

indeed! Very sorry! Didn't see that. But it's great news. I'm looking forward to it when it comes to the EU!

Thx aznbro85!!! and everyone else!!

greetz

[lindijones]

Hi All!

Gapless playback is not that easy.

When encoding a Sound file to Mp3 then the original wave file (Or cd data) is divided in several frames.

One frame has 1024 samples.

If the file is not exactly x times 1024 samples long then the rest will be filled up with silence. That silence is the gap.

What Atrac does, is just to count the samples which are silent at the end (anyway it knows the original length of the file because it is encoding it ;-) and writes that into the Atrac file.

The player can glue the actual playing file and the next file seamless together.

So it is gapless.

That happens during encoding to Atrac.

This feature is also implemented in WMA9 or higher and Ogg Vorbis.

Mp3 and AAC does not support that feature.

What Apple does is:

They scan the normal Mp3 and AAC files at the end and count the silent samples at the end.

That is the scanning when you import the Mp3 Music to iTunes.

So they can make Gapless playback with files which i encoded several Years ago with any CD ripper software which makes normal Mp3s.

That is amazing to far and Apple is the only one which makes Gapless with any normal Mp3 and AAC file. (Correct?)

Sony has to start from the beginning.....

(Well the new EX700 is nice ;-)

Bye

Edited September 5, 2007 by lindijones

[rocklegend_]

Nice to see Sony moving away from Chronicstage but I have many Gapless Albums so unless Sony sorts this out and creates a firmware for Gapless Playback Apple will be receiving my money in the future and not Sony....

[metal]

Gapless playback is not that easy.

Don't want to go to the technical, but , nobody said it was easy to implement gapless, but if Apple can do it why not Sony?

Have to agree with rocklegend that unless Sony sort out this gapless issue, no more Sony DAP for me

[RNelson]

Hi, is there any (unofficial) firmware hack to turn an A806 to an A816??? Or there are hardware differences (DPS's, processor capability/speed, memory, etc.)?

But it's really a shame that SonicStage and A810 series don't work together... I love SonicStage and ATRAC3+!

[lamewing]

Now that it has been confirmed that the U.S. models will handle hangul/kanji/kana I am ready to buy!!!!

I have no use for gapless or sonic stage myself, but it would have been nice to still offer it as it is done on the PSP. Having said that, the multi OS option (MTP/UMS) MORE than makes up for that!!

count me in...but where is the indigo color? WHY is silver the premium Sony Style color in the U.S.? Meh.

I am NOT an Apple fanboy, but after seeing the options that the new iPod has to offer, Sony is going to be in a world of hurt IF they try to compete head-to-head. I hope Sony settles on a nice niche in the U.S. and does the best they can, quality wise.

Edited September 5, 2007 by lamewing

[Ascariss]

Hi, is there any (unofficial) firmware hack to turn an A806 to an A816??? Or there are hardware differences (DPS's, processor capability/speed, memory, etc.)?

But it's really a shame that SonicStage and A810 series don't work together... I love SonicStage and ATRAC3+!

no there isn't, if a firmware update was all that was needed, then sony would have not released new players.

[DannyB37]

I so want this player, a shame I can't afford it, and I haven't seen it in Canada!

Edit: so amazed by the player I forgot to thank you for the review... So here it is;

Thanks for taking the time to make this review and showing us that wonderful audio player!

Edited September 6, 2007 by DannyB37

[pata2001]

Gapless playback is not that easy.

Sony has to start from the beginning.....

A freeware firmware called rockbox can implement gapless, so if they can do it, a big company like Sony should be able to do it.

Lame MP3 already contains tags needed for gapless playback (used by foobar and rockbox). How hard is it for Sony to support that?

The S70x series can play AAC gaplessly, so Sony already have something done, yet it's not implemented on the new walkmen?

[Ascariss]

I so want this player, a shame I can't afford it, and I haven't seen it in Canada!

it's coming in late september I believe, or early october.