ATRAC - yay or nay?

[LuLu]

Hi all,

We haven't had a poll for a while and the new 800 series that support drag and drop have been out long enough to get some feedback from those who are using them.

Vote now!

LuLu

[Guest Stuge]

IMO Drag and Drop rules over ATRAC .RIght now I'm using Stuff that uses Sonic Stage ,but sooner or later I will be using Walkmans that will no longer be using SS and ,then all my previous Walkmans will be eating dust (I know this sounds harsh )

[High Contrast]

I can´t live without ATRAC, but for people who don´t like SS, wich is not my case, sony should make a tool to convert

files into ATRAC, like the one to convert ATRAC into mp3, them you would be able to drag and drop ATRAC files.

[juli_]

By dropping Atrac, they've dropped gapless - and while there are loads of people who would rather sacrifice gapless for drag and drop - I'm not one of them. I don't why Sony always seem to add something useful - and then take something away useful.

So I vote for Atrac, or at least some way of implementing gapless as standard in any future daps.

[Zizone_]

They should support everything...

Drag-n-drop, SonicStage, WMP 11, etc. and same goes for codecs.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Zizone

[juli_]

They should support everything...

Drag-n-drop, SonicStage, WMP 11, etc. and same goes for codecs.

In a world where pigs can fly through a hell that's frozen over and Sony tech support actually 'support'

[cauldron]

Mistake or not, this is what people told Sony they wanted. Look around the web - people complained about SS, tested ATRAC and said it's the worst of all codecs, and you'll find all sorts of other outrageous complaints. So Sony gave them what they wanted, and IMO there's no point in complaining about losing its perks now if you weren't assertive in supporting Sony's old system before.

[pata2001]

By dropping Atrac, they've dropped gapless

The S70x series can do gapless with AAC just fine, so Atrac is not the only way to achieve gapless.

Let's face it. Sony decided to move on, to AAC. They co-developed AAC in the first place! Just think AAC as the next version of Atrac.

[Old skool D]

Mistake or not, this is what people told Sony they wanted. Look around the web - people complained about SS, tested ATRAC and said it's the worst of all codecs, and you'll find all sorts of other outrageous complaints. So Sony gave them what they wanted, and IMO there's no point in complaining about losing its perks now if you weren't assertive in supporting Sony's old system before.

I know people complained about SS, but I don't recall loads of people complaining about ATRAC, particularly when you read comments on sites like Amazon. I've never had a problem with either ATRAC or SS, but Sony have, for once, listened to the majority, particularly with regard to SS, and acted.

[LuLu]

I know people complained about SS, but I don't recall loads of people complaining about ATRAC, particularly when you read comments on sites like Amazon. I've never had a problem with either ATRAC or SS, but Sony have, for once, listened to the majority, particularly with regard to SS, and acted.

I purposely wrote the last question that way to acknowledge the fact that ATRAC is tied to SS.

I think the comments posted under the poll pretty much sum up the thoughts that have been shared here over the past few months.

As for the poll so far...quite a few people like ATRAC, some don't and others are on the fence. Drag and drop is pretty much evenly divided as are feelings about SS. With one quarter to one third being neutral on all three questions it may demonstrate that those who prefer ATRAC or drag n drop are using it for something specific. For example, I think one issue related to a desire for ATRAC is gapless. Perhaps those that like drag n drop use their DAP in many different computers and relying on SS would be a barrier. It is a small sample size so far so hard to make any conclusions at this point.

I wonder if the comments on Amazon are markedly different than the ones here and if so, this is based on participants here being more part of a community, having read other's opinions that helped shape theirs?

LuLu

[imagine_]

I like SS very much in terms of organizing my music and the way it looks and sounds (esp. with the DSEE feature). However, ironically, I do not use it with my walkman because I use MP3FM as almost all of my music collection is in MP3, and I keep it like that so that I can play them on my XBOX360 or in the car, or on someone else's laptop, etc..

I think atrac is good for what it is, but in terms of intercompatibility with other devices it sucks, which I think is why sony dropped it.

[metal]

By dropping Atrac, they've dropped gapless - and while there are loads of people who would rather sacrifice gapless for drag and drop - I'm not one of them. I don't why Sony always seem to add something useful - and then take something away useful.

So I vote for Atrac, or at least some way of implementing gapless as standard in any future daps.

totally agree.

[metal]

The S70x series can do gapless with AAC just fine, so Atrac is not the only way to achieve gapless.

Let's face it. Sony decided to move on, to AAC. They co-developed AAC in the first place! Just think AAC as the next version of Atrac.

The problem is S70x requires SS to make AAC gapless and Sony also drops SS. But unfortunately looks like the majority hate SS and the majority don't care gapless. So, the minority like me who cares gapless always suffer. I agree sooner or later I will have to move on...

[pata2001]

So, the minority like me who cares gapless always suffer. I agree sooner or later I will have to move on...

No, you don't have to suffer. Sure, back then, there are not many options for gapless playback capable DAP. Now, there are plenty of alternative DAPs that can do gapless with MP3 just fine. I was in your position, but not anymore. If Sony thinks gapless is not important, let them be, buy something else.

[shaft69]

Sony shouldn't give up atrac they should do like for the psp system MP3 drag & drop + SS / Atrac (Atrac Drag & drop is impossible due to Sony SRM)

[The Mule]

I don't think Sony should have given up on atrac because it certainly had its merits but it didn't really catch on. I download all my music off the net in MP3 format. I used to convert them to Atrac because I wanted gapless. Then when I started storing MP3's I realised they were being played back in gapless aswell.

As far as sound quality is concerned, that was one of the main things Sony believed was superior with Atrac compared to its rival formats. Eventually they gave up because other formats had cornered the market and after years of development they gave up (which seems a waste of all the years they spent developing atrac).

[High Contrast]

but ins´t new sony walkman coming with two options?

i was looking in theyr site and you can buy one that plays ATRAC, and you have to use SS

and theres the same model that has drag and drop.

i think sony is only stoping ATRAC in theyr connectstore, but SS will continue thank god!!

[High Contrast]

No, you don't have to suffer. Sure, back then, there are not many options for gapless playback capable DAP. Now, there are plenty of alternative DAPs that can do gapless with MP3 just fine. I was in your position, but not anymore. If Sony thinks gapless is not important, let them be, buy something else.

so i should buy an ipod?

give me a break!!

i wont give up my walkman! sony will keep with SS, they just stoping connectstore.

they wont stop SS for a long time, theres a lot of people who uses SS, like who has an minidisc walkman!

[LuLu]

Does anyone know why SS is being discontinued everywhere but Japan?

LuLu

[shaft69]

Everywhere but Japan doesn't want atrac and sonicstage anymore that's all.

In Japan Minidisc was successfull so they adopted atrac & sonicstage but in Europe and in North America everybody wants drag and drop and they don't care about atrac :-(

[pata2001]

so i should buy an ipod?

give me a break!!

i wont give up my walkman! sony will keep with SS, they just stoping connectstore.

they wont stop SS for a long time, theres a lot of people who uses SS, like who has an minidisc walkman!

No you fool. Sure iPods work great and gapless capable, but there is something called rockbox. Gotta love ignorant fanboys.

[pata2001]

Everywhere but Japan doesn't want atrac and sonicstage anymore that's all.

In Japan Minidisc was successfull so they adopted atrac & sonicstage but in Europe and in North America everybody wants drag and drop and they don't care about atrac :-(

I guess you don't really follow the history of Sony. Nothing to do with Atrac or sonicstage. Heck, Sonicstage came in pretty late in the game. Blame it on Sony USA, not the consumer. In the past, many MP3 DAPs were NOT drag-n-drop either. MD is successful in Japan because Sony Japan fully support it, releasing plenty of colorful units, plenty of blanks and accessory, plenty of MD boomboxes, decks, etc. Plus support from 3rd party like Aiwa, Panasonic, Sharp, etc. Did the same thing happen in the US? Nope. The rest is history.

[pata2001]

Eventually they gave up because other formats had cornered the market and after years of development they gave up (which seems a waste of all the years they spent developing atrac).

What makes you think Sony gave up? Sony co-developed AAC for God's sake. How do you know they didn't implement some of their knowledge of Atrac in AAC? Sony tried to keep Atrac proprietary in the past. It failed, and Sony knew it would fail, thus now we have a standard called AAC.

[markey]

No you fool. Sure iPods work great and gapless capable, but there is something called rockbox. Gotta love ignorant fanboys.

pata2001 says it how it is. pata2001 doesn't hold back

pata2001, what improvements will rockbox make to an ipod?

Edited February 17, 2008 by markey

[High Contrast]

No you fool. Sure iPods work great and gapless capable, but there is something called rockbox. Gotta love ignorant fanboys.

first the fool here is you! there´s no need to be rude man, i´m not a ignorant fanboy, i tested a lot of dap´s and music mannagers, and i just like walkman and SS, just it and i wont stop using my walkman, theres no need to stop using it and use rockbox, even if they only continue with SS in japan i can keep using mine SS, and in the site from sony portugal they say they´re gonna keep updating SS, because most of new walkmans will come with two options, one that has drag and drop, and one that uses SS like the ones from now, go there and take a look.

Edited February 18, 2008 by High Contrast

[Gradius]

Sony should support FLAC already, is excelent, open source, free, and better, you can have drag & drop with it (not possible w/ ATRAC).

Gradius

[pata2001]

first the fool here is you! there´s no need to be rude man, i´m not a ignorant fanboy,

You're not ignorant? I said there are other alternatives for DAPs with gapless playback. I didn't even say anything about iPods. Next thing you said:

so i should buy an ipod?

give me a break!!

i wont give up my walkman!

So there you go. I provide the solution: rockbox for gapless playback, yet you're ranting on and on about Sonicstage.

[pata2001]

pata2001, what improvements will rockbox make to an ipod?

Pure drag-n-drop (UMS), support of variety of codecs (FLAC and OGG), gapless with any codec that is gapless capable (Lame MP3, OGG), usable EQ, variety of skins/themes.

Note that this is true for ANY of the DAPs supported by rockbox, not just iPods. It's just easier to get iPods as the hardware since they're more readily available than others.

[markey]

Pure drag-n-drop (UMS), support of variety of codecs (FLAC and OGG), gapless with any codec that is gapless capable (Lame MP3, OGG), usable EQ, variety of skins/themes.

Note that this is true for ANY of the DAPs supported by rockbox, not just iPods. It's just easier to get iPods as the hardware since they're more readily available than others.

Is Rockbox a firmware you update your DAP with or do you buy the hardware from them?

Do you know why the Walkman isn't supported by Rockbox?

[Waqas_]

what happens if my nw-a808 dies, will sony replace it with a newer non-atrac model?

[markey]

what happens if my nw-a808 dies, will sony replace it with a newer non-atrac model?

..........you planning on dropping it

[High Contrast]

You're not ignorant? I said there are other alternatives for DAPs with gapless playback. I didn't even say anything about iPods. Next thing you said:

So there you go. I provide the solution: rockbox for gapless playback, yet you're ranting on and on about Sonicstage.

i said ipod cause was the first thing in my mind, i was just joking you rude, because you keep talking about rockbox like you were giving me a solution for a problem, in this case SS, but i´m trying to say to you that SS is not a problem, have you go see

the site from sony?

they will keep updating SS, and i use my ps3 to store and convert my music into ATRAC, so even if they stop SS, wich will NOT happen, i can keep using my ps3, in any moment i said that SS is the best or somenthing like that for you to say that i´m a fan boy, i just said that i like SS for me got that?

[gotthat]

wise move by sony since that's the going to please people who need this non atrac NWZ models, so now ss and atrac are still with japanese NW walkman, then it's good news for any people who can and like to import their stuff from japan

[lamewing]

wise move by sony since that's the going to please people who need this non atrac NWZ models, so now ss and atrac are still with japanese NW walkman, then it's good news for any people who can and like to import their stuff from japan

What will happen to imports in the future if the hardware requires a version of SS that goes beyond version 4.3? I have actually enjoyed using SS once I got it up and running. The lack of japanese language support was the worst part to fix, but now, it performs admirably.

I don't think Sony should have dumped ATRAC here in the West, though. They should have done the same thing they did (only more expansive) with the Sony PSP and the new Mylo. You can use drag/drop or you can use SS to transfer MP3, AAC, and ATRAC, ATRACplus. I just get this mentality of having one or the other, when it is obviously easy to provide support for both solutions on a single device.

The real problem with the NWZ is its lack of full AAC support, thanks to the limitations of WMP. Sure you can play the files, but you have to transfer them with drag/drop or Sony's Media Manager software (which is worse than SS). BUT, you cannot transfer AAC via WMP, so you are stuck with using multiple solutions to transfer files if you have music in multiple codecs. I fall into this catagory as I prefer ATRAC and AAC and not MP3.

I would have been happy if I could still choose to use SS to transfer my files to the NWZ even if I didn't care for ATRAC.

Sony's decision to take the choice away from the consumer is almost enough to send me to another company. Add to that their decision to truly separate the rest of the world from Japan in regards to hardware choices just make me....grrrrrrrrr. If I weren't such a Japanophile I would have jumped ship a long time ago.

[gotthat]

lamewing average consumers can't think as much as what u know, majority of people just don't know that much about this and that, they will be happy to use whatever like say ipod yeah scroll everything. I have seen more heaps of people nowdays in sydney with the NWZ models, cause they wouldn't give a crap about atrac from the start. so lucky majority of the consumers are not like walkman fanboys or know products well like u do, it allows sony just to simply do a NWZ line and sell to the majority. i too don't want to see atrac gone from the west, cause nowdays import is the only way to enjoy atrac walkman, i usually only import games and consoles but not walkman yet

[Waqas_]

..........you planning on dropping it

No, atrac is the reason i bought the nw-a808 in the first place, so naturally i'm a bit concerned.

Don't want sony to replace it with a non atrac device.

[ceres]

Funny thing is Atrac 3Plus from the days of SS 3.3 pretty much tied AAC (itunes 7.5) in a recent listening test at soundexpert so with a bit of tuning it could have been the best (obviously).

http://www.soundexpert.info/coders256.jsp

Edited March 4, 2008 by ceres

[shaft69]

I guess you don't really follow the history of Sony. Nothing to do with Atrac or sonicstage. Heck, Sonicstage came in pretty late in the game. Blame it on Sony USA, not the consumer. In the past, many MP3 DAPs were NOT drag-n-drop either. MD is successful in Japan because Sony Japan fully support it, releasing plenty of colorful units, plenty of blanks and accessory, plenty of MD boomboxes, decks, etc. Plus support from 3rd party like Aiwa, Panasonic, Sharp, etc. Did the same thing happen in the US? Nope. The rest is history.

Yeah well sony fully supports atrac in Japan but now the reason they give up atrac is Sonicstage and in US & Europe Minidisc wasn't successfull especially because it was really expensive... anyway I got a question why 3rd party doesn't support atrac with DAPs?

[kino170878]

anyway I got a question why 3rd party doesn't support atrac with DAPs?

Maybe because Sony won't allow it to happen? Atrac is/was their proprietary format after all. The MD units were different because that was strictly on the hardware side with little or no software implementation. If they gave the Atrac codes to software developers....well let's just say hell has more chance of freezing over than that ever happening.

Edited March 5, 2008 by kino170878