juli_

To be honest, I haven't tried mp3, only atrac and wma vbr. Is mp3 warmer?

YES! That's exactly it. I prefer the warmth of analogue I like vinyl better than CD. In that respect, the 706 is vinyl and the 808 is CD

Veggie, I've got about 50% @ atrac 256, and the rest at wma vbr averaging between 300/400kpbs. I've sold the UMs anyway I want to keep the 808 as I still prefer the Sony sound over anything else, so it's just a case of matching headphones to the player to my ears. I never burn in iems, never occurred to me! Currently testing the SE420 in comparison with the allegedly 'inferior' SE210

That's great! Really glad you like the 706 - I thought you would, based on what you thought of the 808 (too sharp etc). Re: headphones, it's hard to recommend anything to anyone since we all have different listening preferences etc. What I suggest you do for now is try Veggiemusicians method of 'modding' the supplied headphones. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.p...;highlight=EX90 Although this mod is for the EX90, it works the same for the 706 supplied buds. At least 90% of people who tried it said it really improved the headphones, and you might not even need to get another set. I wouldn't 'upgrade' to the EX90's as I thought they sounded pretty much the same as the 706 supplied headphones. Not saying they're bad because they're not at all - it's just the supplied ones are pretty good in the first place. I wasn't keen on the E500s with the 706, but I also wasn't keen on them with the 808 so it's possible I just don't like the 'separation' on the E500s. In other words I can hear all the frequencies really distinctly (which a lot of people like) - but for me the separation meant none of the music 'blended' and that took away the enjoyment for me. It's a good headphone, but I 'appreciated' it more than I 'enjoyed' it. And I thought they were too 'warm' with the 706. UM2s I don't know - with the 808 I had to have it pretty loud to get the sound quality I wanted, and I wouldn't normally listen at really loud levels - plus I couldn't listen to them in bed because they sounded so ordinary at lower volumes (like the E500). I didn't try them with the 706 as I'd already sold the 706 by then. I also thought they had a really small soundstage so the music was really 'in my head' which wasn't so pleasant at louder volumes! A lot of people use the Sennheiser CX300's with the 706, I found them much too bassy with very little detail, but again, it depends on your listening preferences. I'm getting the SE420 today so I'll let you know what I think of them, although I'd be using them with the 808, so they wouldn't be the same as with the 706, though it seems that whichever headphone is used with the 808 would just sound slightly warmer with the 706. What kind of stuff do you listen to?

They're £149 now on play.com, and Amazon.co.uk was selling them for £139.00. Both retailers were selling at the full price of £199 just a few weeks ago so the price is coming down nicely

Actually Ceres, I'm beginning to understand what you mean about high-end iems offering a 'signature' rather than 'sound'. As I said in a previous post, the cheaper entry-level Shure SE210 matches very nicely with the 808 - if I could only get them to stay in for longer than a few minutes! The higher up the scale I go, the more disappointed I get, and although I understand the E500 and Westone UM2 are supposed to really shine with an amp - I don't plan to use an amp for portable listening, so maybe a really high-end headphone is wasted on me. I am definitely giving up the search tomorrow if the SE420 lets me down. It is exhausting looking for the 'perfect' headphone!

The only 'problem' with the SE210 is it's very fickle once it's in the ear. I tend to have to keep them pressed in at an angle - as soon as I let go, they sound like a tinny old radio - maybe that's why the other reviewer slated them. That would definitely be a dealbreaker for me as I can't keep fiddling with them once they're in - and no - using different sized tips didn't make a difference - they just seem to be angled slightly differently to the E4 and E500. Anyway, the SE420 is en route to me as I type, so tomorrow I'll get to try my last headphone. I think the Westone 3 would be overkill for me, so I'm hoping the SE420 might just hit the right spot

It does sacrifice some detail compared with the E500, but as I haven't listened to the E500 for over a week, it's impossible to make a direct comparison. I can't say I yearned for any extra detail though. I would say (to my ears) that the treble is about the same, I listened to a song with cymbals crashing through it - and I remember they were very indistinct on the E500, and about the same with the 210. And I don't know if this makes sense, but I found the E500's slightly too 'separated' for me, in that none of the music blended together, it was as if the bass, mids and treble were so isolated from each other that I couldn't get any sense of involvement. The 210 has better 'blending' (??) and I think that's why I enjoy the sound more. I also preferred the vocals on the SE210, I always felt they were too far away on the E500. Also, with the E500 I had to take them off every now and again because the 'coldness' would hurt my ears - I didn't have this problem with the SE210 at all. But the E500's are slightly more comfortable. Regardless of all the detail the E500 outputs - I would rather listen to the SE210's simply because the presentation was nicer. Yes, I'm getting through a lot of headphones, thank God I can return or sell them - but the main reason is because I'm still trying to find the right combination with the 808 - a problem I didn't have with the 706 as I only tried 3 headphones and settled for the third pair. Just found out the SE420 is travelling from north London to stockists today, so have ordered them and they should be here tomorrow. I would really like to stop 'searching' for headphones now and just enjoy the music!

Veggie, I listened to the UM2s with the Shure black foam tips, but still found them too bright. I think I must be quite sensitive to brightness of any kind. The sound quality was great, except that in order for it to sound great - I had to turn it up pretty loud - louder than I would normally listen to, which makes listening in bed a no-no as (like the E500s) - they sound very average at lower volumes, and very good at higher volumes. I actually got a chance to try my friends SE210 today (and EX90) and was really surprised at the SE210 soundstage and overall presentation, in fact, it had the most enjoyable sound I've heard with my 808! Plus it sounded good at lower volumes too - it's a lot less bright than the E500 and the vocals are closer and 'higher up' which I really like.(like you're in front of the singer while he's on stage, very realistic) I had to fiddle with the tips a lot because even when they seemed to fit OK, the sound was c**p - but once I pushed them in at an angle they were pretty damn good! The EX90 is also very very good - but the Shure was a million times better to my ears, I kept swapping back and forth and the difference was huge. As for Shure's 'cheapo' entry level model, I'm really surprised that I liked the sound so much, especially after having had the E4G and E500. It's like an E4G with more bass and less 'brightness' (which always left ringing in my ears). Someone (maybe on this site, not sure) said it was rubbish with no bass, no mids, no treble, no sound (!!), but I didn't think that at all. I think based on this, it might be that the SE420 will be my next choice to try, and after that. . . well, there's nothing, I'll have tried all the ones I wanted! I wouldn't try the SE310 as I read a few reviews that said they were 'indistinguishable' from the SE210 and cost an extra $100! If the SE420 is not to my 'liking' I would probably get the SE210 if they drop in price because so far with the 808, they give the most acceptable sound as they reduce the 'shrillness' without sounding foggy at all. I'm not saying they're technically in the same league as the other top models, just that they seemed to produce the most pleasant overall sound for my ears out of all the headphones I've tried so far. Well, I'm off now to wallow in my own surprise that I actually preferred a single-driver setup to the dual and triple drivers. . .

Exactly - but I'm going to stick with the 808 and let myself adjust to it, as the only unit with better sound (imo) is the 706, which I've sold - because I needed the extra capacity. I think after a few more weeks with the 808, more headphone testing, more tweaking, and no wistful comparisons with the 706 - I might get a sound that I can live with. Already with different headphones and tweaking, the sound can be altered quite dramatically - but as you say, the warm tone of the 706 can't be copied. I'm going to persevere with as many different combinations as I can, as until Sony brings out something with the 706 sound, there's nothing left to try! I've tried several other players, (OK, only 4) but the 'best' of them, Creative Vision:m only scored a measly 3/10 sound-wise compared to any Sony I've had. . . so I'll wait it out! Are you still enjoying your E530s?

Hey Veggie - I haven't done enough listening with the UM2's to comment fairly yet - so I won't - but in the meantime, I can't figure out how to do your 'mod' with the clingfilm on the 808 stock buds. I read everything in your original thread, even looked at the photos you put up, but I still can't understand how you do it! You say to use a circular motion to twist the clingfilm on, but first you have to get the clingfilm 4 layers thick right? So I folded some clingfilm in half a couple of times and then tried to put it on, but it kept slipping when I put the sleeves back on. In your pics, it looks like a much bigger surface is covered - I just covered the round bit where the vents are, whereas your photo looked like it went all the way over the stem too. I want to try this method as I'm curious and it also got some very positive feedback. When you said to cut clingfilm 15mm x 5mm - do you then keep folding until you have 4 layers? I know you explained it really clearly, but I am c**p at translating anything mildy 'practical' into action! Explain it as you would to a 6-year old please.

The only problem is the 706 is only 4GB, and I needed the extra capacity - if I didn't, I would have kept the 706. But the UM2's are here now so I'll give them a try

I'm waiting for the UM2's to come through hopefully tomorrow. I remember you said they would be better with 'bright and lively' players. I did try the super.fi 5 pro's but found them to be only OK with rock, not so good with acoustic etc. Plus the vocals seemed altered somehow. Veggie, I'll try the clingfilm as I'd use the stock buds as backup anyway. I'm hoping the UM2s will be clearer in the vocals than the super.fi's

Oh yes, I didn't think to ask if you had that feature switched on. Glad you figured it anyway

Yes, it is 'shriller' than the 706. I still don't know any technical speak, but I need to set EQ to CB+2 0, 0, -1, 0, -1 for it to sound smoother. . . does that help you understand which parts I find 'shrill'? I think it's only noticeable to people who've used the 706. If I had never heard the 706, I would be OK with the 808, as the presentation is still very very good compared to anything else out there - it's only that I preferred the sound of the 706. If you were able to try one, you'd know exactly what I mean. Like I said before, I am getting used to the 808 the more I use it - but coming from the 706, it takes some getting use to.

Me too, especially since I got my replacement for the faulty one. It feels very safe in the hard case and it's easy to operate through it. Plus I like how it bulks it up a little and stops it feeling so flimsy in my hand.

It's not exaggerated at all - if you'd heard the 706, you'd notice the difference. By the way, the 808 is a good-sounding player - no-one's saying it's bad - we're just discussing the differences in sound between that and the 706.

high n mighty - I honestly feel that the 706 has a much nicer sound than the 808 - it's smooth, clear, detailed and rich, and doesn't grate on the ears the way the 808 does. If you read some of the views, you'll find people want to know how to make the 808 sound like the 706 - not the other way round. . . When you said: "Go back to the 706", I thought you'd owned it - but if so, you'd know the sound of it, so maybe I misunderstood you. So I'm assuming you haven't tried it before. If you're one of those that felt the 808 was too harsh (and you obviously are) - then I'm pretty sure you would love the 706. Just because it is smoother sounding doesn't make it any less clear or detailed than the 808 - I found it extremely detailed with more clarity than the 808, and a much more 'liquid' tone which is much smoother on the ears. As you'll notice from the posts - the 808 and 706 do have different sound signatures - it's really down to what your ears prefer. I found that I could listen to the 706 for hours and hours and never tire of it - with the 808 I need to give my ears a rest every hour or so just because I'm more sensitive to it's sharpness compared with the 706. Maybe this is why you didn't get on with the 808 either, in which case you'd almost certainly like the 706, no sharpness at all. If you get the 706, be sure to post back your views on it.

Whoopee, something worked!

Oh hahahahahaha - that would drive me nuts! I don't have the 706 anymore, but I don't recall any 'spots' on it, and if I had, I would have got it replaced asap - who wants spots on a new player??? Are they on the side? Can you post a pic so we can get a really close look??? I have to laugh because I can sympathise, I hate to pay out a lot of money for a new shiny toy, and then discover it has some sort of chicken pox. Describe the size/shape/dimension of the spots

Did you get that info from the link? I am determined to get one of my suggestions right!!!

Hahaha - yes. When my first one was 'loose' I was obsessed with thinking it was faulty, so I was kind of glad when the headphones broke down and I got the replacement. It wasn't till the second one was 'loose' that I accepted that's how it was, and then began to 'enjoy' the music. Mind you, there might be several people who say theirs fit really tight! Either way, so long as it's not falling out I think you'll be ok

I hope this is the right place to post this - I have been badgering Shure (US and here in the UK) for a definite release date for the SE420 and finally got an e-mail, see below. I was waiting for these to try with the NW-A808 - have UM2's coming but will probably want to try these ones too! If it has a warmer sound that the E500, it might be a good match for my 808, and anyone else who's finding the 808's detail a little 'harsh'. Julie, I actually have the SE420's coming into the country on Monday of this week, they will be distributed to all our major clients. Monday week, I would look to Amazon, The Mp3 Company, John Lewis or Dixons. They will have them then, Regards Melissa Cohen Customer Service and Personal Audio Specialist Shure Personal Audio So if anyone's interested, I take it from the 9th July there'll be available at the above retailers - and if this is old news, sorry!

Did you format it in Windows Explorer or through the device itself in the menu options? I heard people had lots of problems when they formatted via the computer rather than the device, but if it's worked for you, then that's good. PS, hate uninstalling and reinstalling SS, it takes so long!

I found this advice online - it might be helpful http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.ph...=0&t=545398