alieninhead Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 OK, I may be jumping the gun here on this but if my Sony rep is wrong that just means meager disappointment. I was at work the other day (I work @ Circuit City.) and our Sony rep (Sharon Blair) came up to say hi. She had attended CES--and more to the point--was more in the portable audio zone than anything. After a few minutes of talk about their camera line coming out, I asked about MP3 playback on Hi-MD units. She told me everything coming down the assembly line is MP3 native. When I asked, she told me that "Yes, even the Hi-MD units." She also alluded to the fact there might be firmware updates for older products but she was only guessing on that fact.However, I can say with fair confidence in the Sony Rep that this seems to be the case. Sony has MP3 playback on CD players at work but the MP3 logo is absent from the actual case of the product--my only guess is that the shell was made before they made the switch and that is why there is now a black sticker with yellow writing on it that says "MP3 Playback" on it.I believe it'll be the same way with the new Hi-MD unit. Thats pretty cool. So for now, I'm waiting. And trusting that this is all true. I have no reason to doubt it, seeing how Sony has turned around rather quickly and updated everything from their hard disk player to their CD players to allow for playback, and not just the little flash players they said they were doing just for "convenience."~a.i.h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Music to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 No comment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Not surprised in the least... How so? Lemme see, Clie's had ATRAC and MP3 decoding/encoding capabilities since 2000? 2001?My PCDP (D-NE1 and NE900) both has exactly the same decoding capabilities since 2001,2? And they sound very close to my non HD Digital AMP'd HiMDs. I suspect the Atrac3plus CODEC DSP has MP3 capabilities in there as well, so again, call me not shocked in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclloyd Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 kurisu, you're "no comment" is a comment within itself regarding the topic :-) It would be truly amazing to have upgrades to 1st gen units too. Then I'd have 2 Sony products that support mp3 (NH900, HD3). I wonder how soon it really will be until we hear about new products, possible firmware upgrades (or trade up? ha!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embio Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 does anyone care? ATRAC sounds a LOT better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant1345 Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 does anyone care? ATRAC sounds a LOT better←but mp3 is a lot more convenient and a lot easier to deal with for some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Well, I have to assume some of us cares by the very fact that we're having this conversation. After all, I don't expect all your music to be in pure ATRAC, but there are a lot of people who uses MP3 exclusively.Besides, the whole quality argument goes down the drain if you're talking high bitrates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1980 Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Drag'n'Drop? Or maybe that is a bit too much to ask in one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indeego Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Drag'n'Drop? Or maybe that is a bit too much to ask in one go.←I think it will be like with the harddisk-walkman .. drm-"cage" for the mp3s to avoid the upload on other computers .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tires Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 FWIW, my D-NE900 CD Walkman does have MP3 silkscreened on it's lid. Sony isn't "hiding" the fact that it will playback MP3 files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMBUSTERS Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 but mp3 is a lot more convenient and a lot easier to deal with for some←Raw source > Atrac sounds betterMP3 > Atrac = oh god my ears are bleeding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin42 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 (edited) That would be great if they would help us first gen HiMDers out too.... I *just* bought an MZ-NH1 with Christmas gift certificates and some coupons (finally moving up from a Sharp 722 portable to go with my home MD deck), and got a decent deal but have been a bit disappointed about the whole DRM issues and bitrate support in HiMD mode, which makes me really long for a way to play my 128kbps MP3s (fine for in-car use) that I've ripped over the years.I know it was never promised, but until you use SonicStage once you never quite know what a hassle it can be to re-rip and all that. Plus my home deck (MXD-D400) plays MP3 CDs and sounds INCREDIBLE so I have high hopes this news is true.... (I've always assumed they had some general purpose compressed-audio circuity that they figured they could adapt for the CD side of that unit)One thing I'm curious about is why it's taking so long to hear about the new units? They were apparently at CES yet nothing on Sony's page even talks about a new generation of HiMD. Please, Sony, bring us first genners to the MP3 party (if indeed a party is happening!)!! It sounds like there would still be DRM but at least it wouldn't involve a sound format conversion.... (adding injury to insult) Edited January 15, 2005 by Justin42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 One thing I'm curious about is why it's taking so long to hear about the new units? They were apparently at CES yet nothing on Sony's page even talks about a new generation of HiMD. ←http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7563 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 does anyone care? ATRAC sounds a LOT better←IMO, the difference between a well-encoded mp3 and HiSP is negligible most of the time. Both formats have certain advantages and disadvantages, but in terms of sound quality the only plus that atrac3plus has over mp3 is a higher-resolution sample width for each sub-band [meaning that artifacting, while stillpresent, should be more subtle, really].For those of us who keep mp3 collections that are nearly all high-quality VBR [lame --alt-preset-standard and up] and at worst 192kbps - the difference really is negligible.In terms of portable use, I could in fact really care what codec is being used. As long as I can get a reasonable amount of recorded time on one disc, and as long as it plays with decent quality, I really don't care.Okay, maybe I do. I don't want WMA support. Keep WMA away from me. Not because the format in itself is shite, but because it's M$'s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valder Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 For those of us who keep mp3 collections that are nearly all high-quality VBR [lame --alt-preset-standard and up] and at worst 192kbps - the difference really is negligible.Exactly. I have all my MP3s coded at 256kbps and they are fine. If I want better I toss a CD in the Sony D-EJ955.HiMD playing MP3 would be great. Their new Portable PlayStation will also have native MP3 support.Valder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmp64 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Two words - "Gapless Playback." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin42 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7563←That link was what I was talking about.. That's the ONLY place I've seen ANY mention of a new generation of HiMDs and there's not a lot of solid information about them yet..... :/I guess I'm just concerned since I JUST got the NH1, in part because I hadn't seen a THING about anything new... and now there are suddenly rumbles but nothing solid (and with my luck, won't be solid til well past the return policy's end date . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skradgee Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 In terms of hardware, does anyone know enough about the MZ-NH1 or NH900 to know if MP3 playback would be possible with a firmware update? Can the MP3 playback feature be added with software, or does a unit have to physically have a decoder built into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin42 Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 (edited) In terms of hardware, does anyone know enough about the MZ-NH1 or NH900 to know if MP3 playback would be possible with a firmware update? Can the MP3 playback feature be added with software, or does a unit have to physically have a decoder built into it?←This may be ENTIRELY irrelevant (despite having used MD for years I'm just getting into the flow of technical info behind it but I remember reading somewhere that the MP3 playback of the Sony MXD-D400 deck (CD+Minidisc) took advantage of some shortcuts that the Sony engineers found, basically that anything that can decode ATRAC is more than powerful enough to decode MP3. I could be entirely wrong about the MXD-D400's MP3 playback circuitry, as well (it may use something different) but I remember being really impressed when I read that. (especially as MP3s on that unit sound better than just about anything I've ever played them on, I figured that was some of the ATRAC filtering circuitry being used)While that doesn't mean that the NH1 COULD be upgraded, I think there is at least a chance that firmware could be used to tweak it, since I think the ATRAC decoders are pretty flexible (we just don't see that on the user side)...I'm gonna hold out hope. [Hrm, just saw the Sony RCD-W500C CD Recorder that shares the chassis with the MXD-D400 also plays MP3s so I may have bad information... we'll see..] Edited January 15, 2005 by Justin42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) alieninhead, if you get the chance, could you ask the Sony Rep whether or not Sony intends to support Media Transfer Protocol (With WinXP/WMP10) with the next gen. of walkman line. That would make synching with MP3 libraries much easier. Edited January 16, 2005 by Damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 If this is true, I'll be sold on HI-MD. It's still probable that the rep may have made a mistake, but if she sounded so sure....I can live with the DRM. As long as they add native MP3 support, and FIX THOSE ANNOYING SONICCRAP BUGS.WMA crappy? I like WMA lossless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skierMD Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 please......Although I don't really mind the SonicStage conversion time that much, natural MP3 would be SICK!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alieninhead Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 alieninhead, if you get the chance, could you ask the Sony Rep whether or not Sony intends to support Media Transfer Protocol (With WinXP/WMP10) with the next gen. of walkman line. That would make synching with MP3 libraries much easier.←She doesn't know. She doesn't even know what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksandbergfl Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think it will be like with the harddisk-walkman .. drm-"cage" for the mp3s to avoid the upload on other computers .. ←Exactly.. that's the only way they can get MP3's to play on the HiMD thru the ATRAC codec. I would bet $1 that we'll still need SonicStage to put MP3's on... the only difference will be that SS won't have to "convert" MP3-to-ATRAC first.It doesn't matter much to me... I keep all my music in MP3 and will continue to do so. I regularly delete my ATRAC database and OMA files. I don't mid re-encoding again if I want to put a song on another minidisc. On my 2.2GHz laptop, the encoding time is minimal. I'd be much happier if Sony could find some way to speed up the data transfer. I understand there are physical limitations writing to magneto-optical disks, but RAM is cheap and Sony could buffer up an entire HiMD's worth of data inside the HiMD unit. The HiMD could continue to write to the disc while it's in your pocket, while you're walking out to your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indeego Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I hope we´ll get some kind of small application like this and do not need sonicStage to transfer mp3s .. that would be really nice .... even with drm-limitations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Eddie Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 (edited) Hi to all you guys!I got myself an Mz-Nh1 some days ago and I have followed the discussion here and on other places about native Mp3 playback on MD:s.I did a quick search tonight and it seems like Sony has totally turn around their policy and that will be standard in all thir future units.I contacted Sony and told them that , I paid serious money for the Mz-Nh1 and that I would be much dissapointed if they have it as "flagship" one day and then introduce this major feature all of the sudden.Sony told me that, gues what?... Sony told me that a software(!?)-update will be released soon that will make it possible to play Mp3 without converting to Atrac!What do you know!Ps: I would not believe it till I see it though. Cheers! Edited January 19, 2005 by El Eddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Another source within Sony confirmed this?WOO HOOOOOOooooo!P.S. for the 'net fogeys out there: @wheeeee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMBUSTERS Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 nice hopes this comes true and its just some tech support jerk who doesnt know anything (not implying all TS people are jerks who know nothing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tires Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 I used to work in technical support answering phones. Sadly, I know that there are quite a few people in that field who just spout out anything they feel like. It's not always good info either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMBUSTERS Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 yes i have been on the line with many very good tech support peoplesome however (on the phone for 2 hours straight, on hold about 2/3 of that time) aren't as goodhas anyone else tried calling to see if they can get any leads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Eddie Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 One possible answer is that they already have capacity. And that Sonistage is the one who is going to allow it to work in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMBUSTERS Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 possible. weren't people finding lists of the available codecs through service mode and all but one or 2 were turned on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenJammin Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Its useful for books on tape which I do not like converting to ATRAC. So yes I care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenJammin Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Not to mention it will help adoption of the HiMD format. Its important to the average joe to have MP3. So its a BIG deal that it doesn't already. Nobody I know at work will even take the HiMD seriously w/o MP3. That's just a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datafreq Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 I saw a Sony MD walkman at a local "Asian" mall that sells lots of bootleg dvds etcand it had "MP3" stamped on the cover...Is this a new unit ???Sorry if this has been discussed b4.CheersD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tires Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 I've seen MP3 wirtten on the packaging of NetMD walkmen. This simply means that you can convert MP3s to Sony's format for use on a NetMD walkman. However, as you know the rumor is that future Hi-MD units will natively support MP3. You wouldn't happen to remember the model# of that MD walkman would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datafreq Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 ahh...ok..i see...no i don't remember the model #, but i'm going back this week, so i'll check...I've seen MP3 wirtten on the packaging of NetMD walkmen. This simply means that you can convert MP3s to Sony's format for use on a NetMD walkman. However, as you know the rumor is that future Hi-MD units will natively support MP3. You wouldn't happen to remember the model# of that MD walkman would you?← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JavaGeek Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Having just recently bought a HiMD unit (MZ-NH800), this is great news. I have most of my music collection in MP3, and I find it annoying having to convert everything to Atrac. Unfortunately, until we don't get official word from Sony, this is just a pipe dream. How long does a product showcased at CES usually makes the market? maybe we can have some kind of timeframe as to where we will know if our MD players will support MP3 natively.Another thing, I've been thinking lately about using a Lossless compression codec to re-rip all my CD's, so I can have them available on my computer. Is Sony planning on supporting one of the Lossless codecs? (AAC, FLAC, etc). I think it is in Sony's interest to do this (particularly with AAC), because that would allow MD players to play music bought on iTunes.Are there some tools currently that would allow me to convert from a Lossless codec to Atrac3+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Otaku Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Another thing, I've been thinking lately about using a Lossless compression codec to re-rip all my CD's, so I can have them available on my computer. Is Sony planning on supporting one of the Lossless codecs? (AAC, FLAC, etc). I think it is in Sony's interest to do this (particularly with AAC), because that would allow MD players to play music bought on iTunes.Are there some tools currently that would allow me to convert from a Lossless codec to Atrac3+?←As much as I wish they would, I seriously doubt that Sony will ever support anything in SS other than non-DRM'd WMA, mp3, and WAV. "Open" codecs like FLAC and ogg vorbis are especially unlikely to get support.AFAIK there are no existing tools other than SonicStage for converting to any of the atrac formats. [Note that there are professional codecs for use with Sony/Sonic Foundry's software such as Sound Forge; these are intended for making DRM'd files for sale on the net, to my knowledge]The simplest [used ironically] way to convert losslessly-compressed files to atrac/3/plus:* Use Nero in 'image recorder' mode to burn a CD image of the file* Mount the CD image using Nero Imagedrive* Open SS; it will find the image as a CD, load the titles via CDDB if they exist* Use SS's 'record CD' option the same way you would with any other CD* Unmount the image and delete itAlternatively, you could use Simple Burner to skip having the atrac/3/plus files being stored in the SS library.It would be really nice if Sony would consider supporting formats other than the extremely limited few they do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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