MZ-RH10 Megathread - All Color Variations + Info.

[jadeclaw]

Can the 1st gen Hi-MD units record in old Type R SP?  I thought they couldn't.

They can.

lp2?  Well they've thrown on mp3 @ 128kbps, so having lp2 would be a little redundant.

Redundant only, when the MP3-encoder achieves a quality only comparable to Lame at the same rate, set to the highest quality.

Lp4?  Sounds like crap compared to the Hi-LP modes IMO, so really I could do without that.

Well, we really can do without it.

So I guess the main drawback is that you can't record, in realtime, lp discs compatible with older non Hi-MD units, right?

For those with older players, e.g. Car units can simply forget the new rigs.

This really is of little consequence to me, especially since we can still get those tracks in lp2 via Sonic Stage.  Again, correct me if I've got it wrong or I'm missing something.

←

Yep, but the new rigs won't let you create MDLP/NetMD-discs. If I read the descriptions right, no more NetMD-mode in SonicStage 3.0 with the new recorders.

PS: I reserve the right to be wrong on the last one until I have seen the user manual.

[ROMBUSTERS]

If I read the descriptions right, no more NetMD-mode in SonicStage 3.0 with the new recorders.

←

that's retarted, why would they do that in the 2nd gen and not the first? and why would they do it period?

[Christopher]

You're confusing yourself, ROM.

Listen, I'm going to say this once:

First generation Hi-MD has NetMD and Hi-MD mode. This was the legacy bridge between Hi-MD and the old MD, therefore allowing people to use their Hi-MD units to make regular MD discs.

Second generation can only record in Hi-MD mode [either by unit or Sonicstage 3], meaning Hi-MD discs and MD discs formatted in Hi-MD mode. It can record in all of the previous ATRAC3/plus offerings. It can play back any disc.

Furthermore, it appears that mp3 playback will only be playable in second generation and the generations after such. This is not definite, but with everything I've seen so far I assume with more than 95% probability that this is the truth.

[The_Stamp]

- release date March 10th

is this true?

am i going to be able to walk down to my local sony store and see these in the glass cases in a week?

also.. kinda off topic.. where are the 910 pics?! if im going to buy it (which i WILL).. i gotta have some pics!

[Christopher]

In Japan, I believe - April elsewhere. I need to fix that, thank you for reminding me.

[Leland]

The claim is March 10 in Japan.

It is already on the BIC camera website, also showing a March 10 availability date and a 10% point discount at launch.

http://www.biccamera.com/bicbic/app/w?SCRE...010074674,34800

It seems that battery life is not really much better. The 33 hours claimed in the release material is only with both the gumstick and the external AA. This configuration gives good life, but it has never been my preferred mode of use as it adds bulk.

[The_Stamp]

thought i might contribute.

someone from the netherlands posted this :

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_MZ_RH10_Hi_MD...471.html?tag=bv

doesnt say anything about requiring sonicstage to transfer mp3s.

review:

Today, Sony introduced its 2005 lineup of MiniDisc (MD) digital audio players, ranging from the playback-only MZ-DN430 ($99.99) to the MZ-DH10P, the first MD player with a built-in digital camera. Among this musical quintet, the most intriguing is the $300 MZ-RH10, a Hi-MD player/recorder that features a five-line OLED display.

Upside: In the past, tiny screens and buttons have plagued the otherwise meticulously designed Sony MD players, but we're pleased to report that not only do you get more screen real estate with the RH10, you also get data that pops off the screen, thanks to a bright, monochrome OLED display. The player also functions as a recording device with line and mic inputs. The device uses affordable removable Hi-MD media that lets you store 45 hours of music on a single 1GB disc ($7 each). Its excellent battery life, its small size, and its native MP3 support make the MZ-RH10 a legitimate alternative to hard-drive based players.

Downside: The media is cheap, but you're going to have to carry a bunch of MDs when you go on long trips; in contrast, the Apple iPod and others are self-contained devices. MP3 support is wonderful, but you won't get any familiar AAC or WMA support; however, this doesn't matter if you're a big fan of ATRAC3 and the Sony Connect service. Despite the new display, the Sony MZ-RH10 Hi-MD Walkman is still pricey. If you want the bigger screen but can do without the eye-pleasing OLED, check out the MZ-RH910. It's roughly the same player without OLED, and it costs $100 less.

Outlook: Sony's MD isn't going away--at least for the time being. Removable media still makes sense for a lot of people, especially those who record performances. With progressive new designs and MP3 support, not to mention economically priced media, the revamped MD family should get a lot of looks in the coming year.

i really wish they had a REAL md user test and review that thing ahh well.

Edited March 3, 2005 by The_Stamp

[Rumz]

Still-- it's nice to hear a review on a (Hi)MD unit that's more positive than negative for once. More support for the format is a good thing IMO-- I want me a legit deck and a car head unit

[Kaotic]

Still-- it's nice to hear a review on a (Hi)MD unit that's more positive than negative for once.  More support for the format is a good thing IMO-- I want me a legit deck and a car head unit 

same here, I want a deck rather than another portable unit. Plus, I just wish Sony would include MAC users in the loop for anything that involve MD development. If Apple can crossover with their itunes and Ipods to Window OS, I just don't see why Sony can't crossover to OS X with Sonicstage. grrrr. still no OS X support for SS3.0.

[atrain]

5-10% needs to cater to other markets.

80+% doesn't need to cater to niche or boutique users.

apple needed to have ipods working on pcs or there would have been a fraction of the market for the white tings. sony is still trying to pinpoint it's major market, let alone a cross platform.

[Rumz]

5-10% needs to cater to other markets.

80+% doesn't need to cater to niche or boutique users.

apple needed to have ipods working on pcs or there would have been a fraction of the market for the white tings. sony is still trying to pinpoint it's major market, let alone a cross platform.

←

Well as MD is a recording medium and somewhat of a niche market in and of itself, it would make sense to get it to work on Apple-- lots of people that use Mac for multimedia authoring that could benefit from some digital uploading of recorded material. Maybe not as many as they can sell it to just as a music player on the PC side of things though, right?

You are right though about PC's being necessary for iPod's success.

[hobgoblin]

thought i might contribute.

someone from the netherlands posted this :

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_MZ_RH10_Hi_MD...471.html?tag=bv

doesnt say anything about requiring sonicstage to transfer mp3s.

whenever i hear a compaint about carrying around a number of MDs to have the same storage as the ipod i wonder who in the world have ever filled up the ipod, much less with legal music. if we go by 1 MB pr min of sound we are looking at what? 30 000 min of music? now who spends so much time away that they have time to listen all that? soldiers in the field? you will most likely burn out the battery before you run out of music.

and that review sounds more like a paper preview, much like what we find here on the forum. the cnet person most likely have looked at the specs and done some "educated" guesswork.

given the size of a MD player it would be more correct to compare them to a ipod mini as you cant fit a fullsize ipod in anything but a bigish jacket pocket. and then your looking at what? 5-6 HI-MD before your at equal storage?

yes you have to replace the medium, but that just allows one to make never ending mixes of music

im holding back on the question of mp3 drag n drop-ability until i can see some posts here about people useing sonicstage 3.0 with a 2. gen unit. before that its all guesswork...

[Rumz]

whenever i hear a compaint about carrying around a number of MDs to have the same storage as the ipod i wonder who in the world have ever filled up the ipod, much less with legal music. if we go by 1 MB pr min of sound we are looking at what? 30 000 min of music? now who spends so much time away that they have time to listen all that? soldiers in the field? you will most likely burn out the battery before you run out of music.

and that review sounds more like a paper preview, much like what we find here on the forum. the cnet person most likely have looked at the specs and done some "educated" guesswork.

given the size of a MD player it would be more correct to compare them to a ipod mini as you cant fit a fullsize ipod in anything but a bigish jacket pocket. and then your looking at what? 5-6 HI-MD before your at equal storage?

yes you have to replace the medium, but that just allows one to make never ending mixes of music

im holding back on the question of mp3 drag n drop-ability until i can see some posts here about people useing sonicstage 3.0 with a 2. gen unit. before that its all guesswork...

←

Many people rip entire CD collections to mp3 and carry them around. And to be honest, a 20gig iPod is really not big at all if you've ever held one in your hand. The 40gig one is a bit thicker, maybe not quite as pocketable but certainly not huge. I can see the draw of not carrying around a ton of discs, but on the other hand, you're right-- I really don't need much more than a few 1GB discs for any trip. The HDD music juke box (iPod or otherwise) is just the lazy man's convenience-- they dont have to really guess at what they'll want to listen to, they can bring so much in such a small space.

There are definitely arguments for and against using 1GB removable discs-- in the end it's up to the user to decide what fits them best

[Norick]

Hey again,

I have a question which might have been asked already, but I can't find the answer: with all this non backward compatibilty issue (HiMD recording mode ONLY, No LP2/4, etc...), will we be able to format our old blanks (regular 74/80 mds), or are these new units designed for exclusive HiMD blanks support?

Thanks in adv

Edited March 3, 2005 by Norick

[Christopher]

Yes, you will be able to format old blanks, and you will be able to use ANY ATRAC3/plus codec on a Hi-MD [or MD discs in Hi-MD mode] listed here:

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/capacity.html#3

[Norick]

Yes, you will be able to format old blanks, and you will be able to use ANY ATRAC3/plus codec on a Hi-MD [or Hi-MD discs in MD mode] listed here:

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/capacity.html#3

←

Thanks for the quick reply and the comprehensive link.

[Leland]

Hobgoblin,

The point of carrying lots of MD's or having an entire music collection on a HDD player is because music is mood driven and mood is unpredictable. Sometimes I want to bang my head, sometimes I want to sooth it, sometimes I want to educate it. I never know what might strike me as fun to listen to over the course of a 3 to 5 day trip. With my NW-HD1, I pick it up and go and I'm done, loaded with 20 gigs of my legitimate (95% anyway) collection. I love it.

When I used MD all the time, I would carry 40 discs sometimes and still not always have what I wanted.

[Dinko]

Sure, but even with fully loaded HDD players, you still might not have what you want to listen to at the right moment.

I had a 40GB RCA Lyra. Fully loaded with 192kbps mp3s & wmas. But then my "mood changed" and the works I wanted to listen to weren't on the Lyra... 40GB of music or not.

Your're perfectly right though. The chance of having the songs you want on a 20 or 40 GB player is greater than if you only bring one 1GB HiMD disc, and HDD players are certainly more compact than 1 HiMD player and 40 HiMD discs.

[hobgoblin]

ok so maybe i have a diffrent listening style then you people then. i listen to music to zone out or focus on what im doing, not to use it as a background music like in some hollywood movie. that, and i dont have a music collection that is even close to filling a ipod mini, much less a full size one.

[Guest tony wong]

Correct, Damage.

No official answer on $300 question, will find out more about $150.

Your unit isn't obsolete - it's the legacy bridge between MD and Hi-MD and is the only Hi-MD generation that will have the ability to record in MD and Hi-MD mode.

←

kurisu, not offencing u

that information should be wrong

take a look of this page

http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/audio/walkman/p...0349&KM=MZ-RH10

there is NetMD logo

and as there is digital amp logo also, that should mean it do have HD digital amp

[added]when talks about recording in Hi-MD mode only, it DOES mean live recording(optical/analog input)

if u don't believe, just click the next tab of the 4 tab(feature)

I translate it with www.worldlingo.com

Edited March 4, 2005 by tony wong

[Guest tony wong]

No mention of VBR playback. That will definitely be something to test the hell out of. If SS had issues with some VBR MP3 I wonder if the players will be more resilient.

←

no, there should be no vbr mp3 support

look carefully

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/capacity.html

it does say :

Note: Recording time calculations assume each track transferred from a PC is 4 minutes long.

MP3: Common name given to MPEG-1 Audio Layer-3. Sampling rate: 44.1kHz (fixed bit rate).

[added]well, now not any mp3 player can play vbr, why u guys have been so harsh to Hi-MD?

Edited March 4, 2005 by tony wong

[jadeclaw]

http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/audio/walkman/p...0349&KM=MZ-RH10

there is NetMD logo

and as there is digital amp logo also, that should mean it do have HD digital amp

[added]when talks about recording in Hi-MD mode only, it DOES mean live recording(optical/analog input)

←

You mean that one:

""Optical digital, analog and microphone input sound recording (*) it corresponds.

* At the time of substance sound recording only "Hi-MD" mode sound recording correspondence. ""

In other words: No standalone recording in the old mode (MDLP).

SS3.0 does allow selecting between HiMD and NetMD, question is: Will the NetMD option be still there, when connecting a RH10?

Speaking of the digital amp, it is the normal one.

The DH10P has the HD-amp:

[Christopher]

Thanks jade, sharp as a knife and never dull as always.

They must've thrown that logo in there as a mistake, as I'm fully sure that these second generation units only write in Hi-MD mode in any ATRAC3/plus flavor and now mp3. They can play back NetMD-written discs, though.

[FezzFest]

no, there should be no vbr mp3 support

look carefully

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/capacity.html

it does say :

Note:  Recording time calculations assume each track transferred from a PC is 4 minutes long.

  MP3:  Common name given to MPEG-1 Audio Layer-3. Sampling rate: 44.1kHz (fixed bit rate).

[added]well, now not any mp3 player can play vbr, why u guys have been so harsh to Hi-MD?

←

Hmmm, they can play vbr mp3's

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/index.html#3

*2    Playback is only possible on equipment with MP3 playback capability.

MP3: Common name given to MPEG-1 Audio Layer-3.

Sampling rate: 44.1kHz. Bit rates: 32~320kbps (fixed/variable).

[Guest tony wong]

Thanks jade, sharp as a knife and never dull as always.

They must've thrown that logo in there as a mistake, as I'm fully sure that these second generation units only write in Hi-MD mode in any ATRAC3/plus flavor and now mp3. They can play back NetMD-written discs, though.

←

strongly believe that if these units lacks ability to record in MD mode, many people will complain and not consider buying it

the size is the same

but less function, who will buy it?

it is still early stage of Hi-MD, not appropriate to cut compatibility at this moment

[springboard]

As a minidisc newbie, I'm pretty confused. I just want something that can record live through a mic at high quality and then quickly transfer to a PC. The old minidisc recorders had the limitation of realtime transfer. And of course the limitation that ATRAC was compressed, but it was supposed to still be a very good sound. Then they came out with the HiMD units, which finally were supposed to be able to do fast digital transfer to the PC, but had some checkin/out issues and problems converting to wav, etc. So, with these new units, can you transfer quickly to the pc without having to worry about some cockamamie protection scheme being put on your own live recordings? And it looks like maybe you can record in an uncompressed mode? Is this true?

[Michael1980]

True true.

[bmanalansan]

Kurisu, are we supposed to expect a "mysterious" Hi-MD in June or is the MZ-DH10P Hi-MD Walkman Digital Music Player "it"?

[Guest tony wong]

As a minidisc newbie, I'm pretty confused.  I just want something that can record live through a mic at high quality and then quickly transfer to a PC.  The old minidisc recorders had the limitation of realtime transfer.  And of course the limitation that ATRAC was compressed, but it was supposed to still be a very good sound. 

I am not sure on whether ur limitation means ATRAC

if yes, ATRAC itself is not a limitation, MD are born to use ATRAC

Then they came out with the HiMD units, which finally were supposed to be able to do fast digital transfer to the PC, but had some checkin/out issues and problems converting to wav, etc.  So, with these new units, can you transfer quickly to the pc without having to worry about some cockamamie protection scheme being put on your own live recordings?  And it looks like maybe you can record in an uncompressed mode? Is this true?

←

there is no check in/out issue now

starting from Sony Stage 2.3 there would be no such thing called "check in/out"

if ur unit did come with older version of SS, upgrade to newer version like 2.3 an d even 3.0 is free

and, there is limit on upload ur live recording on Hi-MD

heard u can only upload it 1 time onto pc

and there's no limit afterwards as u can already turn it into wav or whatever u like afterwards

yes, with SS 3.0 u can upload ur live recording onto ur pc and direct convert to .wav

and yes, u can record in uncompressed mode(linear PCM) with any Hi-MD unit

attention : I am not sure if u have old MD units already

but there is rumours say 2nd gen Hi-MD unit can't record in MDLP and SP modes

but the 1st gen Hi-MD unit can(namely NH1, NH900, NHF800, NH700, NH600/600D)

so if u r gonna make a MD that will be played on "MD"(not Hi-MD) models, u should only consider 1st gen Hi-MD models

[jadeclaw]

As a minidisc newbie, I'm pretty confused.  I just want something that can record live through a mic at high quality and then quickly transfer to a PC.

Either wait 1 to three month and take either the MZ-RH10 or the MZ-RH910 or

if you need it now, take the MZ-NH900 or the MZ-NH700 (800 in the US) and install

SonicStage 3.0. That will be suitable for your needs.

And if you don't have a decent microphone, Reactivesounds may have the right one.

And it looks like maybe you can record in an uncompressed mode? Is this true?

←

That is true, a 1GByte blank holds 94 minutes of true CD-quality sound.

[Christopher]

Kurisu, are we supposed to expect a "mysterious" Hi-MD in June or is the MZ-DH10P Hi-MD Walkman Digital Music Player  "it"?

←

The DH10P is it.

[hobgoblin]

no, there should be no vbr mp3 support

look carefully

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/capacity.html

it does say :

Note:  Recording time calculations assume each track transferred from a PC is 4 minutes long.

  MP3:  Common name given to MPEG-1 Audio Layer-3. Sampling rate: 44.1kHz (fixed bit rate).

[added]well, now not any mp3 player can play vbr, why u guys have been so harsh to Hi-MD?

←

you may be right, but only way to tell for sure is if someone gets their hands on a player and trys to play a vbr mp3 on them.

i do wonder why no mp3 players can handle vbr tho, is it something with the design of the decoder chips maybe? something about haveing diffrent paths on the chip for diffrent bitrates?

[The_Stamp]

*SIGH*

it DOES support VBR.

http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/index.html#3

MP3*2 32~320kbps

*2 Playback is only possible on equipment with MP3 playback capability.

MP3: Common name given to MPEG-1 Audio Layer-3.

Sampling rate: 44.1kHz. Bit rates: 32~320kbps (fixed/variable).

Edited March 6, 2005 by The_Stamp

[hobgoblin]

and i again say that we should put this tug-o-war on ice until someone here have gotten their hands on one of the players and tested it until it toss in the towel and starts playing flac

[springboard]

So, for live recording does this next generation add anything? Does it record to MP3, or just play it? And what does one lose by only being able to record in "Hi-MD" mode rather than NetMD?

[Christopher]

The true gem will be whether or not it can remember the live recording mode [manual, automatic] for you. If it doesn't, then nothing really has been accomplished.

[jadeclaw]

So, for live recording does this next generation add anything?  Does it record to MP3, or just play it?  And what does one lose by only being able to record in "Hi-MD" mode rather than NetMD?

←

Well, you have longer recording times, especially when using the internal battery with the AA-cell-addon.

It does record in MP3, but 128k isn't really cutting edge. I hope, that more bitrates are available.

MDCenter.nl has a hands on this week at Sony Netherland,

so we will know more by then.

By not being able to record in old MDLP/NetMD mode,

one loses compatibility with old equipment.

However, NetMD recording might be possible with SonicStage.

[Sh1]

i'm thinking about buying a Hi-MD i think i'm tossing up between the NH1 and the RH10.

these are the areas i need clearing up and everyone's opinon.

1. the difference in size and weight. Is that a major down side of the R-10? is 144g too heavy for an MD?

2. The remote issue everyone's talking about. I personally preferr the stick remote over the 3line of the NH1 but what i was wondering was does the Rh10 remote display kanji and charecters in different lanuages like the NH1 (i know the OEL screen does) this is just reguarding the remote.

3. headphone line out, can i plug another headphone in or not?

4. what are the files i can transfer without sonicstage (if any).

thanks

[Clytn]

- release date March 10th in Japan, April elsewhere

So i guess tomorrow is the big day, release of the 2nd gen units Hopefully someone will get one the first day and post their impressions on the forums.

[Christopher]

Since we have more Japanese partons here at the forum hopefully we'll get some insight.