Reanimating a lost Hi-MD with RH1 is possible

[enaef]

Hi

I just wanted to tell, that I found a way to "reanimate" Hi-MD's which are produced with a RH1 (only with RH1!).

Because my English is to bad, I can give you the URL to the german thread, where I explained, how it works.

If somebody around here is understanding german and eager to translate: go on.

Zugriff auf verlorenes Hi-MD Material (leider nur RH1)

Greetings

Ernst alias enaef

[raintheory]

Tried a quick translation via AltaVista's Babelfish.. Looks promising! Can't wait for a more accurate translation so I can try this out!

Thanks enaef!

[raintheory]

So anyone up for a proper translation?

I am pretty anxious to test this out (and I really don't want to watch this slip through the cracks either), so if anyone could translate this it would be greatly appreciated!

Edited November 21, 2006 by raintheory

[greenmachine]

Reanimating a lost Hi-MD with RH1

General:

- tested with SonicStage 3.4

- recorded continuously (no parts were cut out or moved)

Limitations:

- seems to work only with the RH1 (MD needs to be initialized and recorded with the RH1, doesn't matter if initialized via soft- or hardware)

Procedure:

- access the damaged MD in data mode (via file explorer)

- copy the file ATDATAxx.HMA to your harddisk (xx are placeholders, the numbers/letters are subject to change when the system file is being written by the recorder)

- initalize/format a new MD (standard or 1GB, doesn't seem to matter, though the original recording needs to fit on this disk)

-disconnect RH1 from PC

-start a "fake recording" on the blank MD, which needs to be slightly shorter than the total of the damaged recordings. Let the system file to be written when finished.

- connect RH1 to PC, access in data mode

- delete the audio file of the fake recording ATDATAxx.HMA (usually named ATDATA02.HMA when recorded continuously). Remember the exact name of this file.

- copy the damaged file from your harddisk to this location and rename it exactly like the file you have just deleted.

- disconnect RH1 from PC

- put RH1 into LineOut mode

Transfer and limitations:

You can now do a realtime analog transfer (see here). You will hear short interruptions in places where previous trackmarks have been. [if you don't put the RH1 in LineOut mode, it will seem to play normally past these previous trackmarks, (level indicator will work as usual), but there will be no sound output until FF button is pressed].

Alternatively you can use SonicStage to play back the files. To do so, connect RH1 to PC, start SonicStage. The fake recording should be displayed in the "transfer" section. Playback should work normally to the point of the first trackmark in the original (damaged) recording. SS will interrupt playback at this point and jump back to the beginning of the file. If you move the trackbar beyond the point of the first (or following) original trackmark, playback will continue.

The file can be imported from MD to PC via SS without problems. Playback behavior of this file will be as described beforehand.

Converting to WAV will result in an error message at the point of the first original trackmark, conversion will be aborted. Converting to a different bitrate will result in an error message.

Edited September 18, 2007 by greenmachine

[mdmania]

sorry I'm not clear on this. so what is this exactly for again??? is this for saving a lost track or something???

[greenmachine]

A method for recovering tracks from a corrupted / accidentally formatted / erased Hi-MD, similar to TOC cloning in pre-Hi-MD days.

[mdmania]

thanks! I suspected that this is similar to TOC cloning. Anyhow, at least it available for RH1.

[Skradgee]

This is awesome! Hi-MD users have been waiting a long time for something like this! I wonder why the fake recording needs to be slightly shorter than the recording to be recovered. Hopefully I'll never have to try this with one of my recordings, but it's good to know that this is an option.

[raintheory]

I'll give this a test run as soon as I can and post the results along with a rundown of other methods of recovering material (TOC Cloning). Would be nice to have all of the info in one spot.

[mdmania]

I'll give this a test run as soon as I can and post the results along with a rundown of other methods of recovering material (TOC Cloning). Would be nice to have all of the info in one spot.

We look forward to it raintheory. Good luck!!!

[enaef]

A method for recovering tracks from a corrupted / accidentally formatted / erased Hi-MD, similar to TOC cloning in pre-Hi-MD days.

thanks, greenmachine for translating my report to english!!

Unfortunately I have to correct you: you will not be able to get access to accicentally formatted or erased Hi-MDs, because the file ATDATAxx.HMA will be empty (0 KB) and you cannot save it to the harddisc.

It works only with a corrupted Hi-MD.

By the way: I myself am very curious for somebody who will try to test this "reanimation" (you need ofcourse not to wait until you have a corrupted Hi-MD).

To be honest, I am surprised nobody tried until now. Not only in this forum, but also in the german forum.

[A440]

Mods, someone should make greenmachine's translation a pinned post among the FAQ.

Unfortunately I have to correct you: you will not be able to get access to accicentally formatted or erased Hi-MDs, because the file ATDATAxx.HMA will be empty (0 KB) and you cannot save it to the harddisc.

It works only with a corrupted Hi-MD.

[Richard]

Mods, someone should make greenmachine's translation a pinned post among the FAQ.

If someone else can confirm it works as planned, I'll pin it here in tips 'n tricks.

[fishstyc]

... you will not be able to get access to accicentally formatted or erased Hi-MDs, because the file ATDATAxx.HMA will be empty (0 KB) and you cannot save it to the harddisc.

It works only with a corrupted Hi-MD.

...

That means that the disc should still be readable in DATA mode.

The first thing I'd try in that case is writing the file back (overwriting the original) to the same disc. The fact that you write it again, may make it readable again in SS. (I tried this and it works). That way you can still use SS and upload your files instead of going analog.

If that fails, this way may be an option, but I doubt that you could still read your data in the first place.

Unfortunately this doesn't help people who are unable to read that ATDATA file, even in DATA mode (the OS seems to try to read a sector a few times before it gives up)...

Interesting information though.

[raintheory]

If someone else can confirm it works as planned, I'll pin it here in tips 'n tricks.

I'm actually trying to work out what situations this would work for... As soon as I can find one I will test it out. Worst-case scenario I will have to wait until my RH1 confronts me with a "Cannot Rec or Play" error.

[enaef]

That means that the disc should still be readable in DATA mode.

The first thing I'd try in that case is writing the file back (overwriting the original) to the same disc. The fact that you write it again, may make it readable again in SS. (I tried this and it works). That way you can still use SS and upload your files instead of going analog.

If that fails, this way may be an option, but I doubt that you could still read your data in the first place.

Unfortunately this doesn't help people who are unable to read that ATDATA file, even in DATA mode (the OS seems to try to read a sector a few times before it gives up)...

Interesting information though.

Yes, with corrupted I mean corrupted audio mode.

I am not shure, whether I understand you right. Which file exactly do you want to write back? The ATDATA file?

[enaef]

I'm actually trying to work out what situations this would work for... As soon as I can find one I will test it out. Worst-case scenario I will have to wait until my RH1 confronts me with a "Cannot Rec or Play" error.

Nothing easier than producing a disc with corrupted audio mode. For example take a empty MD, do a short recording. Go in data mode and copy the files to the harddisc.

Take another empty MD and go to data-mode. Here you erase the files and replace them with the files you copied earlier to the harddisc.

When you try to play this disc, you will get a "AUDIO FILE ERROR".

Now you can try my steps.

[fishstyc]

Yes, with corrupted I mean corrupted audio mode.

I am not shure, whether I understand you right. Which file exactly do you want to write back? The ATDATA file?

Yes, you overwrite the ATDATA file, so that the audio (= where the problem is) is written again, and in most cases, the problem will probably be solved, meaning you could now import the song again in SonicStage because the reading won't fail anymore.

EDIT: While reading your last post, I see that 'corrupted' might mean something else to you. I just wonder when you might get in this situation, I mean no one is going to perform the steps above and deliberately damage a disc, no?

So I guess my question is: in what circumstances do you get this error? Low battery while recording or something? Has it happened to you already?

Edited November 30, 2006 by fishstyc

[enaef]

Yes, you overwrite the ATDATA file, so that the audio (= where the problem is) is written again, and in most cases, the problem will probably be solved, meaning you could now import the song again in SonicStage because the reading won't fail anymore.

EDIT: While reading your last post, I see that 'corrupted' might mean something else to you. I just wonder when you might get in this situation, I mean no one is going to perform the steps above and deliberately damage a disc, no?

So I guess my question is: in what circumstances do you get this error? Low battery while recording or something? Has it happened to you already?

Deliberately to force a audio error message make of course only sense for trying out the method for "reanimating" lost material.

Yes, it happened already twice to me . That's the reasen why I desperately was looking for a way to get access to lost material.

First time, my RH1 obviously failed with "TOC-writing" after I pressed the T-Mark button. After that I had lost the last 5 recorded peaces.

Next time (two days later) I lost more than 7 hours of music during naming peaces in SonicStage. I suddenly had the error message, (in SS) that the MD "is not formated as audio-disc" (or something like this). I had no more audio-access to the recorded material neither by SS nor by the RH1 directly. It was obvious again to me, that there would have been some sort of failure by writing the "TOC-files".

Though the final solution as reported, in the end seems to be quite simple, it took me many hours get the right way.

Especially the point to use a totally fresh formated MD was the crux.

I hope, that somebody else will try now "my solution", because I am eager to know, wheter the solution is reproducable. Though I tried many times.

EDIT: But now a question. Overwriting the ATDATA file is only possible, if you safed it earlier, no? Or do you mean, that you have some sort of error, copy the ATDATA file to harddisc and overwrite the ATDATA file of the MD with this copied fiel?

Edited December 1, 2006 by enaef

[fishstyc]

I hope, that somebody else will try now "my solution", because I am eager to know, wheter the solution is reproducable. Though I tried many times.

EDIT: But now a question. Overwriting the ATDATA file is only possible, if you safed it earlier, no? Or do you mean, that you have some sort of error, copy the ATDATA file to harddisc and overwrite the ATDATA file of the MD with this copied fiel?

I can't try your solution since I don't own a RH1...

What I meant was the error where the upload fails in SS halfway, because there is some sort of reading error. Apparently the upload function in SS tries only once to read the data, and any minor read error will make the upload fail. A lot of users reported this kind of problem, so I assumed (my fault) you were talking about this kind of error.

The operating system will try a few times more before giving up, and so in some circumstances will succeed in reading the file. If you overwrite the file again, the data that has been badly written is written again (indeed overwritten with the same file, the one you copied to HD earlier).

[vlad4003]

The whole procedure sounds nice but didn't work for me.

I don't know what happened but one of my HI-MD discs got AUDIO FILE ERROR recently. I lost some valuable recordings - ideas for the first time like this. Don't know what produced the error. The disc was unreadable in "audio" mode, but I run chkdsk /F on it in data mode (it said: I got Lost chain cross-linked Orphan truncated) and it corrected the ATA* file size and I was hoping to recover the recording using the method above.

I tried to record a new "bogus" recording and then replac it by the original data file that I was able to copy to my hard-drive without trouble.

I can confirm the bogus recording must be SMALLER then the original file or you'll get the FORMAT ERROR DISC message.

If you make it "slightly" smaller (860MB in my case - the orig file size was 865MB) everything seems fine, the MZ-RH1 reads the TOC and starts to play the track but... and this is a big BUT... all I got out was noise at full volume.

I tried to FF through the recording but all I got was this data? noise. So, it works technically and in principle but cannot be used to save one's recordings... at least for me. Real-life testimony. Howgh.

Does anyone know at which specific situations is this AUDIO FILE ERROR produced?

Never happened to me before in 8 years I've been using the MD/HI-MD technology? Is it a media failure or more recorder error related?! Thanks for your answers in advance! V.

[enaef]

The whole procedure sounds nice but didn't work for me.

I don't know what happened but one of my HI-MD discs got AUDIO FILE ERROR recently. I lost some valuable recordings - ideas for the first time like this. Don't know what produced the error. The disc was unreadable in "audio" mode, but I run chkdsk /F on it in data mode (it said: I got Lost chain cross-linked Orphan truncated) and it corrected the ATA* file size and I was hoping to recover the recording using the method above.

I tried to record a new "bogus" recording and then replac it by the original data file that I was able to copy to my hard-drive without trouble.

I can confirm the bogus recording must be SMALLER then the original file or you'll get the FORMAT ERROR DISC message.

If you make it "slightly" smaller (860MB in my case - the orig file size was 865MB) everything seems fine, the MZ-RH1 reads the TOC and starts to play the track but... and this is a big BUT... all I got out was noise at full volume.

I tried to FF through the recording but all I got was this data? noise. So, it works technically and in principle but cannot be used to save one's recordings... at least for me. Real-life testimony. Howgh.

Does anyone know at which specific situations is this AUDIO FILE ERROR produced?

Never happened to me before in 8 years I've been using the MD/HI-MD technology? Is it a media failure or more recorder error related?! Thanks for your answers in advance! V.

Did you run the chkdsk /F before using the other steps?

Could it be, that was the problem?

[Sparda]

The whole procedure sounds nice but didn't work for me.

I don't know what happened but one of my HI-MD discs got AUDIO FILE ERROR recently. I lost some valuable recordings - ideas for the first time like this. Don't know what produced the error. The disc was unreadable in "audio" mode, but I run chkdsk /F on it in data mode (it said: I got Lost chain cross-linked Orphan truncated) and it corrected the ATA* file size and I was hoping to recover the recording using the method above.

I tried to record a new "bogus" recording and then replac it by the original data file that I was able to copy to my hard-drive without trouble.

I can confirm the bogus recording must be SMALLER then the original file or you'll get the FORMAT ERROR DISC message.

If you make it "slightly" smaller (860MB in my case - the orig file size was 865MB) everything seems fine, the MZ-RH1 reads the TOC and starts to play the track but... and this is a big BUT... all I got out was noise at full volume.

I tried to FF through the recording but all I got was this data? noise. So, it works technically and in principle but cannot be used to save one's recordings... at least for me. Real-life testimony. Howgh.

Does anyone know at which specific situations is this AUDIO FILE ERROR produced?

Never happened to me before in 8 years I've been using the MD/HI-MD technology? Is it a media failure or more recorder error related?! Thanks for your answers in advance! V.

So you could say that this is theoretically correct, but nevertheless doesn't work when applied to real word situations?

[enaef]

So you could say that this is theoretically correct, but nevertheless doesn't work when applied to real word situations?

I can't say why it dit not work for him. I just can say, that it worked for me in TWO! real live situations. First time I lost 5 peaces of music which I was able to become access to only with the reported method.

The second time I lost more than 7 hours of music - I reanimated also with the same method.

And it took me A LOT of time, to figure a way out.

I hope, it works for others also.

enaef

[raintheory]

i still have not encountered any errors that would require this method.

i can replicate an error with the RH10 that renders a disc useless, but this method only works with RH1.

[Sparda]

Is there a known reason why it only works with the RH1? Hope I will never need to do this, although still good to know.

[sunali]

I can't say why it dit not work for him. I just can say, that it worked for me in TWO! real live situations. First time I lost 5 peaces of music which I was able to become access to only with the reported method.

The second time I lost more than 7 hours of music - I reanimated also with the same method.

And it took me A LOT of time, to figure a way out.

I hope, it works for others also.

enaef

I tried it, and it didn't work for me - but probably partly because of the way I caused the error - like an idiot I erased all files on the Hi-MD once - yes it's stupid in retrospect!

But anyway, when I got my error it looked like there were still no files in there, so maybe that recording never worked. I'm just wondering now, how do I reformat the disk so it works again? I've tried copying the files over from another new disk with a bogus recording, but it's not enough - still audio file error. Any ideas?

[boojum]

"Reanimation" is probably a literal translation from the German. I would think "revive", "rebuild" or "resurrect" would be more appropriate in English in this usage. Just a thought.

[mikehend]

I have a situation similar to the ones previously described and hope someone can give me some guidance:

I made a MASTER LIVE CONCERT recording using the PCM mode and did the editing on my MZ-RH1 before attempting to transfer the files to my Macintosh G4. Part of the data seems to be "missing" as I cannot locate it. The missing data was in a second group before I removed all of the "Mark" entries in an attempt to make one large file to download instead of about 20 small ones.

For some reason (maybe I bumped the remote) the recorder stopped during the concert. I discovered this during an applause and started it up again quickly. The part that was subsequently recorded was in Group 2. I listened to the recording and heard the second part worked fine. After the editing of TOC markers discussed above I can no longer find this part of the program on the Master MD. Is there a way to UNDO the saved TOC changes somehow so I can go back to find the music that was there and now appears to be un-accessable? I hope that somehow cloning the TOC using a different HiMD might work. Has anyone tried this? Suggestions??

Thanks for your ideas!!!! I would really like to get this part of the concert back if possible....

[A440]

Well, this just happened to me. I had a very precious, completely irreplaceable live recording on a disc that I recorded on my NHF800. I added a song to it via NetMD, realized I had added the song to the wrong disc and erased the song and...CANNOT RECORD OR PLAY on the NHF800.

On the RH1 it says "Audio File Error."

I tried the procedure suggested: copied the ATDATA*.hma file to the computer, made a dummy recording, replaced the dummy recording with a renamed version of the corrupt ATDATA*.hma file. The MZ-RH1 unit now recognizes one long track, but runs through it in fast foward, with no sound. SonicStage sees the track, but trying to play it back just hangs with the hourglass running.

I'm going to call Sony when their tech support wakes up--they don't work on Sundays! since of course no one uses portable audio equipment on a Sunday!--but I don't have a lot of hope.

I'm still using SS 3.4 and will try updating to 4.0 with the online installer, but not 4.3 since that has been giving people trouble.

I'm kicking myself that I didn't upload the recording before this.

Anyone have any other ideas?

[naomi-chang]

Hello,

I want to make sure one thing.

>disconnect RH1 from PC

>-start a "fake recording", which needs to be slightly shorter than the total of the damaged recordings. Let the system file to be written when finished.

Is this "fake recording" into a new disc ? or the broken disc?

Thanks,

Naomi-chang

[greenmachine]

Is this "fake recording" into a new disc ? or the broken disc?

Onto a new MD, as I understand it. I've edited the translation to make it clearer.

[naomi-chang]

Onto a new MD, as I understand it. I've edited the translation to make it clearer.

Hi greenmachine,

Thanks for the answer and translation!!!

[greenmachine]

Hi greenmachine,

Thanks for the answer and translation!!!

You're welcome, please let us know if it worked for you.