Keep MDs Alive!

[chadergeist]

Let me start off by saying what MD units I own and they are a Sharp portable, A Sony home deck. I used to have a car audio receiver one from Blaupunkt a Dallas model untill it crashed and it couldn't be repaired. I had to go to Ebay to purchase a Sony car audio md reciever from England that costed me double cause of the exchange rate. It costed me $199.73 I believe?

It sucks that we can't go to Curcuit City, Best Buy or Crutchfield like we did years ago and get a MD player for our cars let alone a portable or deck unit! It even makes me sick that the human race is so stupid that they don't care that the MD format is far more better and superior than those stupid cdrs or MP3 players that I have no use for.

My passion is mds! I love mds! It is hard to find blanks now! I had to go twice to J&R Music to get the Sony color collection 5 packs and the shipping was crazy, around $6 something? I even said that if I can't get another MD player for my car I will not get nothing else! I refuse to go back to a cd player and end up rerecording on cdrs that I had to get rid of 90% of them to Good Will and my best friend.

I think we should put a petition to keep the format here and complain to Sony that they are not behind promoting this format 100 frickin' %!!!!

I would love to say more but will in time cause right now I have to do my paper route and I haven't hit the hay yet. Please add to my topic on your frustrations on how this beloved format by us is not taking off the way we believe it should!

LET THE MINIDISC FORMAT BLOSSOM FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screw MP3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screw CDRS!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Even though I own a Philips Dual CDR Recorder for making lp masters and copies to take in my mother's car)

Screw Downloading!

Enough Said!

I said my anger!

Maybe if we have enough complaints or petition signatures and send them to Sony and all the other companies maybe they will listen? Thanks for posting the first reply to this topic Guitarfxr!

Edited December 13, 2007 by chadergeist

[Strungup]

And everyone here secretely agrees , but its Sony we are talking about , They dont listen to nobody .......

[KJ_Palmer]

It's a huge shame on Sony, not to mention disappointment for us about the demise of MD. I've stockpiled a few - units and blanks - over the years, so as long as the equipment holds out, it should last into the foreseeable future. I've also got a huge pile of CD-R's and hard disk backups to futureproof my collection.

[BIGHMW]

Me too dude. I also have a ton of home/portable/car/professional MD/Hi-MD players/recorders already stockpiled, and I am now even having second thoughts of selling most of them because they are getting more and more rare, in fact the main reason why I have ads up in the classifieds is mostly money-oriented.

I know that many of you, as well as myself (thanks to this board and all of you) have already done the same in stockpiling units, discs (both MD and Hi-MD), and accessories (cases, remotes, phones, mics, etc.), both Sony/Sharp OEM, as well as the vast aftermarket from overseas (thanks to both eBay and Audio Cubes as well as BuyFromJapan [THE place to go for genuine Sony gear available only in Japan]).

Just like all of us want to keep the format alive and kickin', we all have one catchy slogan or another as to our loyalty to this terrific format (like "Use The Power Of The Source"), or even mine which somehow goes a little like this.....

ATRAC or DEATH!!!

P.S.: I only use CD-R's to back up what I already have on MD incase the original discs get lost or (even worse!) stolen, and that's it.

Peace Out bros,

Ray Jackson

MDCF/ATB/ALC/Head-Fi user ID: BIGHMW

[KJ_Palmer]

My only qualm with stockpiling MD units (about 15 decks/portables I think) is whether they'll still work in 10+ years. Or will they seize up from under use, or just die of old age, like us all. Hence the backups on other media. Oh well, time will tell...

[kino170878]

My only qualm with stockpiling MD units (about 15 decks/portables I think) is whether they'll still work in 10+ years. Or will they seize up from under use, or just die of old age, like us all. Hence the backups on other media. Oh well, time will tell...

Longevity is my number 1 concern as well. I don't even mind paying big bucks for repair if it means I can have my MD units for longer. Of course I would never trust Sony enough for repair. They would probably refuse to give the equipment back the paranoid bastards.

Edited December 13, 2007 by kino170878

[chadergeist]

I don't want to hear that Demise word. It makes me quiver just to thought of it. If it is popular in Japan than it will not die! I refuse to go back to cdrs or have a cd player in my car! I would even go to the lengths of getting things from Japan or China and say F America and the ignorant A-Holes that are stupid!

That's just me speaking my mind

Don't be offended!

[BIGHMW]

I don't want to hear that Demise word. It makes me quiver just to thought of it. If it is popular in Japan than it will not die! I refuse to go back to cdrs or have a cd player in my car! I would even go to the lengths of getting things from Japan or China and say F America and the ignorant A-Holes that are stupid!

That's just me speaking my mind

Don't be offended!

Agreed, and understood. I would say the same about the format, I too, will never flock with the mindless brainwashed iSheep out there who are stupid enough to think that MP3 is superior to good-old ATRAC/3/3+.... BULLS***!!!

The truth is, at any bit rate you can name, ATRAC is much better than MP3 or any other compression format out there.

Everyone (at least on this board) knows that magneto-optical storage media is far superior to any laser-engraved/flash media out there, starting with the forever-venerable floppy disc, the Zip disc, and of course, last, but certainly not least, MD and Hi-MD!!!

It has long been questioned how long magneto-optical-written media lasts, and I can tell all of my fellow colleagues on this board (and also Cindy Margolis) that CD-R/DVD-R is not as durable as you might think, in fact some last only a few years before the coating loses its contents, and that is why in 2008, I will be switching from CD-R's to Hi-MD, Zip, and floppy formats for all of my data storage and backups (except for video or music, my own as gangsta rapper AK47, that I sell to you. my loyal fans), because to quote Sony's old slogan from the 90s (remember the good-old days, kids?), that....

"when it matters the most, make it MD/Hi-MD"

C-YA!!! Peace Out ,

Ray Jackson

MDCF/ATB/ALC/Head-Fi user ID: BIGHMW

Edited December 14, 2007 by BIGHMW

[ILoveMinidisc]

The reason why Sony or anyone else dont promote the MD now is that the marked share in Japan

is too low to get any profit on it at all (I do agree they should have promoted it better before)

As for blanks the Marked share are almost non existant now (not only MD but all the recording media industry including CD are suffering, only some DVD and Flash cards get good profit i read often on MMIS)

MD has gone from being Mainstream to PRO meaning you wont get MD in any store as before

people in some TV studios etc... are still using Minidisc as recording devices so it is sitll a Marked for MD but it is not mainstream any longer and as much we will like it it will never be again

The fun part with MD was that something new was released every year (MD units, blanks ....)

today most of this is gone, we only have what has been released

this make it not so fun as before

I dont think we should blame Mp3 players or people marked preferences

The truth is that Sony has not done good enough efort (marketing/price reduction/open softwares..) to make the MD be a Lang lasting hit except of true MD lovers, unfortunaly that is no longer the mass marked

and therefor not give any useful profit to the Makers of MD is now more of a Niche marked which Sony and some others

still do because they dont loose money , but they dont make profit of it either (this can soon change)

As much as we would like it MD is no longer being made focused on the usual Young people wanting "music on the Move"

RH1 was made mostly for the PRO marked (TV studio records , voice recording etc...)

Portable music has been 90% part of my 30 years old life.

and without portable music my intress in music would never be so high.

I gone through the phase of Casette walkman >>> Discman >> minidisc >> and now into more Mp3 players

Even if .mp3 files have lesser quality of what we was used to are they so easy to get on the internet

is great to get a release same day is released and not have to wait for a shop to get the CD.

Now NETMD was great (i still do NETMD recordings)

I never realy got into the Hi-MD thing (not just yet) and it didnt proved sucessfull atleast not as much as NETMD and MD

I recent got my self a Samsung P2 touch screen player and i am in heaven.

I do love the fact of using my NETMD and having lot of cool blanks with me in the pocket

but having a solid and trustful mp3 player (like samsung) with lot on songs on (320kbps bitrates)

lot of Movies and be able to see the Album art while listening to the song + the cool touch screen sensation

Just go Ahead over the Excelent feeling of Having a MD with many cool blanks.

Most of us that buyed MD the first time did so because it was a "New" technology

everyone was using CD or TAPE and we was way ahead with our MD

remember when you told you friend it was Smaler than his Discman and Better quality than his tapes.

in conclusion "Nothing" could compete with MD.

Sadly this is no longer the Cause as Multimedia Mobile phones and mp3 players

now is both smaler and chaper than MD.

And the Other "NEW" thing on the marked is the new trend of Watching Musicvideos (something i always wanted)

and together with the Touch screens this take us a step forward into the "NEW" gadgets we enjoy.

I do feel like getting a Hi-MD (special RH10) but.....

the price is so high and is not easy to get (only RH1 in my country)

And having all those cool Gadgets mp3 players with touch screen make me believe

i will not use MD as often as them.

NOW.......

I probaly doomed the Portable Marked in favour of "high quality" mp3 players (like samsung)

BUT....

I still see MD very good for Backup your music collection and buying a NETMD deck i would like

I no longer Record music from CD or Radio everything i do is MP3 and this has improved my life.

I have known artist i never would have known if "downloading" havent existed.

I therefor see Mp3 players Vs MD as a lost cause since is realy no point

in getting around searching for a Expensive MD player that wont play Music videos on the move (i know i am addicted to videos now ) or having such a stylish design as many mp3 players now (Except RH10 which look cool)

If it was more easy to get HI-MD decks and they was not so expensive i would probaly get one now

as they are realy good sound in them.

I still Collect MD blanks but the Lack of New release of blanks is a real pain

Nothing new realy to look forward too.

MD is no longer the "New kid in the block" the kid have grown up and get old

and sadly almost forgotten.

MD is per today the best Portable Recording media with stable lasting Blanks and good quality software

but the still high price, the difficulties in getting MD and that the MD now has halted not evolving anymore

make me favour mp3 player for street use.

Atleast with a mp3 player i can watch "music videos" (Sometimes you enjoy more watching a song)

"Bluetooth" (I always wished for wireless headphones samsung mp3 players has this)

Wallpapers (big screen mp3 players has this) and the cool touch screen.

But... I miss something from MD:

With MD i could "Edit" a song on the fly anywhere arange the order of the song and even Delete a song

without conecting it to a PC, this is not possible with my Mp3 players

Still in All this and even if Sony Refuse to continue to develop on the minidisc

is good to have a MD community.

As for Mp3 players/hardisk crash thing i do agree.

but i back up all my songs on DVD and update the DVD several times a year

+ not owning just one mp3 player make me always have the same songs even some mp3 player stop working.

Im also investing in a external hardrive meaning i should be safe

AND... i do backup all Artist on MD just to be extra safe

I am waiting to see if Sony release something in 2008 before i buy more MD.

Edited December 15, 2007 by ILoveMinidisc

[Sparky191]

Agreed, and understood. I would say the same about the format, I too, will never flock with the mindless brainwashed iSheep out there who are stupid enough to think that MP3 is superior to good-old ATRAC/3/3+.... BULLS***!!!

The truth is, at any bit rate you can name, ATRAC is much better than MP3 or any other compression format out there.

Everyone (at least on this board) knows that magneto-optical storage media is far superior to any laser-engraved/flash media out there, starting with the forever-venerable floppy disc, the Zip disc, and of course, last, but certainly not least, MD and Hi-MD!!!

It has long been questioned how long magneto-optical-written media lasts, and I can tell all of my fellow colleagues on this board (and also Cindy Margolis) that CD-R/DVD-R is not as durable as you might think, in fact some last only a few years before the coating loses its contents, and that is why in 2008, I will be switching from CD-R's to Hi-MD, Zip, and floppy formats for all of my data storage and backups (except for video or music, my own as gangsta rapper AK47, that I sell to you. my loyal fans), because to quote Sony's old slogan from the 90s (remember the good-old days, kids?), that....

"when it matters the most, make it MD/Hi-MD"

C-YA!!! Peace Out ,

Ray Jackson

MDCF/ATB/ALC/Head-Fi user ID: BIGHMW

I think you are missing the big picture to be honest. If you look at the alternatives to HiMD, storage is cheap, and so its easy (and better) to have multiple backups across different media. So you can use higher bitrate lossy and lossless compressed formats so there isn't any audible difference (for most people) between that and the original. In many cases the higher quality of ATRAC isn't heard by people using low bitrates and poor headphones. In fact most people don't care about sound quality. Sad but true. But for those that do you can equal or better the SQ of HiMD on other devices now.

Also people here generalise about MP3=iPods. Thats really having blinkers on. You can buy other makes of player, even Sonys, flash players like the A8xx and A6xx players. Some of which no longer use SonicStage or ATRAC for that matter. I can understand the charm of MD/HiMD theres a retro chic about it, and for those with an aversion to computers its a great solution. For recording I still think its great at the price point.

Incidentally I'm baffled why you'd switch to Zip and Floppies as they some of the most unreliable mediums I've ever used.

[poe]

Being that the discs them selves are pretty much bomb proof, I think Ebay is a good source for blank discc. The only real thing you have to be worried about in this case is just being plain ripped off, IE the seller plain doesn't send you the product. I will say though alot of the sellers seems to think they're(minidisc) are made of gold, they're pretty pricey. If you watch though you can still get decent deals.

Also Minidisco still sells blanks, support them. Later, POE.

[chadergeist]

I had gotten some blank MDs at J&R Music online. I even go to Best Buy or Curcuit City to get them. I always fantasize that MDs would go up a notch with a Video MD that is like a DVD-R to go with DVD Recorders that we can record movies on MDs. This would be cool! Pop in a blank VMD and record or watch a movie.

[Strungup]

I had gotten some blank MDs at J&R Music online. I even go to Best Buy or Curcuit City to get them. I always fantasize that MDs would go up a notch with a Video MD that is like a DVD-R to go with DVD Recorders that we can record movies on MDs. This would be cool! Pop in a blank VMD and record or watch a movie.

Only if you had the DH10P !! hacked to play Vids .!

[BIGHMW]

I'm baffled why you'd switch to Zip and Floppies as they some of the most unreliable mediums I've ever used.

Actually, I use Zip 100 discs in my Boss (Roland) BR-8 Zip-based Digital Recording Studio multi-track, and floppies exclusively for temporary storage of text-related format as an editable alternative to CD/DVD-R, and as for the Zip 100 discs, I have managing software for ability to edit and mix/master tracks to CD on it as well as ability to re-record segments with errors in them (bad takes, bad timing, off-key vocals/instruments, etc.) on the BR-8 itself.

As for Hi-MD, I use the format not only for compressed music but also I have plans to upload/backup MPEG and JPEG files (Cindy Margolis downloads, small MPEG fles, etc.) on media that is reusable and that will allow me to add or delete onto/off-of it at will, or for transfer to a new unit or even a friend's PC. I just fear having my PC crash with my DSL connection intact due to unplanned events (power outage, virus, malware, etc.), and it is nice to have an editable backup of all my programs on hand, and these three formats, being that they are all magneto-optical format, allow me to do just that.

Edited January 5, 2008 by BIGHMW

[Strungup]

Floppy isnt Magneto Optical , it is Magnetic Binary Imprint , and if you get near a magnetic field , poof its gone .

Zip Drive is MO based

but true MO is MO Drives , and MD both of which are MO based . Be careful with the floppies

[ZosoIV]

Floppy isnt Magneto Optical , it is Magnetic Binary Imprint , and if you get near a magnetic field , poof its gone .

Zip Drive is MO based

but true MO is MO Drives , and MD both of which are MO based . Be careful with the floppies

Zip drives are not MO-based. They're a plain magnetic format that squeezed more data on a disk by placing a very sensitive read/write head only 1mm from a PET film disk and spinning it at very high speeds (3000rpm or so).

In any case, I'd be leary of using zip or Hi-MD to store data, considering that hardware and media for both are getting increasingly harder to find. Plus, they're much more expensive per MB than optical media and have much slower transfer rates.

[Strungup]

I thought zips were scaled down MO , ?????? maybe I should take one apart and see what is inside !!!( God I hear my mothers voice now , everytime that thought comes to mind!)

[BIGHMW]

In any case, I'd be leary of using zip or Hi-MD to store data, considering that hardware and media for both are getting increasingly harder to find. Plus, they're much more expensive per MB than optical media and have much slower transfer rates.

I'll keep that in mind and use Hi-MD as the master disc while making backup copies on optical media (CD/DVD). I already do this for my custom MD compilations (in legacy SP, of course) with CDs as backup copies and listen to them on Hi-MD at 64K A3+ on my 8 assorted 34 hour Hi-MDs I tout around for personal listening use.

As for the hardware and media issue you bring up, I do own plenty of legacy (MD/MDLP/NetMD) units, as well as 2 MZ-NH700 units, 2 MZ-RH710 units, and one MZ-RH1 (with another RH1/M200 planned in the short future), and as far as blank MD/Hi-MD media, I have plenty now, and more to come. I am also currently stockpiling on all three fronts: hardware (players/recorders, both legacy and Hi-MD), software (blank media), and also accessories (both OEM and aftermarket in the form of remotes, IEM's/phones, cases, etc.), I will definitely be ready for when one of my units dies put with plenty of backups.

I am also stubborn about using top-quality media, as I use Sony Premium Gold Series 80-minute MDs and HMD1GL (Blue, second generation) Hi-MDs exclusively for all of my music and data storage.

[ZosoIV]

Sounds like you're well-stocked in terms of discs and units - and ready to enjoy MD for years to come. That's good, because I've noticed a steadily shrinking number of MD-related items on places like eBay. A few years back, a search for "minidisc" would bring up at least 700 hits; now, it's usually under 300, and a lot of that is for non-sequiturs like tape adapters and such. Hi-MD units seem even harder to come by, especially if you're looking for a specific model (like the NH1, which I'm sorry I got rid of a year ago). Most of what's up there now is overpriced junk - or crappy 400-series NetMD downloaders.

Oddly enough, it's the oldest incarnations of MD that seem to be more common in auctions nowadays - I've never seen more MZ-R70's or JE510 decks available until now. It's as though the people who never really got into MiniDisc (i.e., someone who bought a unit in the late 90's, used it a few times, and threw it in a drawer) suddenly found all these older models in their closets and want to get rid of them before they're REALLY not worth anything.

Moral of the story: take good care of your collection

[Strungup]

My MZ-R70 lasted 6 years ......... hmm not worth anything .....? or was that sarcasm , I havent had enough coffee this morning

and MD did have a serious enough effect on the portable world, a lot of Review sites and online stores , electronic shops etc, when you look closely at the link or button to get to portable audio you will see an icon , that looks like an MD

example CNET Portable audio/MP3 button

Edited January 7, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[chadergeist]

With all the editing that mds can do that I have experienced. I did one more last week. I had transfered Rick Ocasek's first two solo albums to a cdr for a master copy and then to md a while back. I had a slight problem in the beginging of Emotion In Motion cause there is a speck in the groove that causes the needle to jump.

I had too lightly place my thumb on the needle's side arm while the second song was going off so the needle doesn't jump and I accedently lifted the thumb slightly and caused a blib in the transfer as the soon as the second song faded.

I used the md recorder last week or two and I put a track in the begining of the blib and right after it. The blib is now a 0:00 track and i tested it by moving the blib track to the end and hear to find if it was seamless and it was before I erased it. After I erased it and combined two temp tracks together it's like the blib never happened.

Try that with a cdr or mp3!?

Edited January 13, 2008 by chadergeist

[Levanel]

I like to think HiMDs as the best way to hide personal data since it isn't as popular and easily accessible than other forms of media. Plus, magneto-optical disks are durable and built to last a lifetime.

[pitdroidtech]

I like to think HiMDs as the best way to hide personal data since it isn't as popular and easily accessible than other forms of media. Plus, magneto-optical disks are durable and built to last a lifetime.

depends who you are hiding it from. You won't fool Police data forensic teams ;-)

But very few home users, and even many computer techs, will not be aware of the data capability of HiMD unless they have actually owned a HiMD unit. Infact many computer techs spurned the format for good after buying NetMD units thinking that finally there was something that worked like any other mp3 player!!

I AM a computer tech, and also a music buff AND a techie from way back who has been following the MD format for years waiting for the day it became a data format as well. I knew the day would come eventually, just as I knew with certainty that market forces would eventually lead Sony to drop DRM.

But only now it appears MiniDisc's day is done But I don't care, I adore my HiMD unit, even more than I adored my NetMD unit (even with all it's failings and crappy OgMyGod software). And I'll buy an MZRH1 too!

Edited January 14, 2008 by max_wedge

[Strungup]

actually a forensic team would first have to think that there is data instead of audio on the disc , they would put the disc in a normal md and get "Cannot read disc" that would indicate corrupted file or audio , and mean useless data. What Forensics looks for first is Hardrives , after that RAM , after that any USB devices that would obviously be data storage devices , the MD often gets overlooked because it is sitting on the Audio cabinet . There has to be someone on the team that is an audiophile to recognize the possibility , because the one thing forensics doesnt wish to do at te beginning of a case is waste time. so all obvious bases get covered first , after that fine detail sweeping . they would dust the MD Player for prints and if finding any then it would go into a bag , after that it would get further tested. if no prints or needed evidence it would be left laying there. The Dogs poop would get more attention , DNA , physical remains , drugs , whatever would be bagged and tagged.

That is of course depending on the Crime scene, or investigation in progress. The most common list for a Data Recovery team , Phone records , USB sticks , Flash Drives , SD cards , XM cards , Smart Media , Hard drives , iPods , Portable Hard discs , Printer Memory , Copy Machine RAM , and rollers , and the biggest of all ..... yes #1 on the list ....... the Ubiquitus CELL Phone .

The Router or modem as well because of password storage and settings stored in them , they can be decrypted and used .

Digital cameras also have internal memory which is used by sneakies to store data because the data doesnt show when you have a Card in the Camera , it works from the card , remove the card and you then have direct access to the cameras internal memory .

just a thought Max

[pitdroidtech]

Some fair points, but I still tend to think a police forensics team would look at all possible sources of data. Infact, any thing that looks like a "cd" or any kind of optical storage media would be thrown in the bag for a closer look for sure.

I'd be VERY surprised if computer forensics experts weren't aware of the data storage ability of Hi-MD. Infact they'd have manuals with information on a whole range of media types that you and I have never even heard of.

As to your list of priorities, RAM would be low on the list, since it is very unlikely to recover any data from ram easily. While there are techniques to recover data from volitile memory, the best you can expect is maybe a password or two and even then you need an electron microscope to detect the traces. They would try RAM only as a last resort. (any DATA in ram is lost as soon as power is removed and the only recoverable data is data strings that have been repeated many many times and burnt wear patterns into the internal tracks of the chip. Only certain hardware will write that same data string into the same memory location everytime in order to create a wear pattern at all.)

I also don't think they will be worried about "wasting time". They will take everything to the lab and if they can't find anything in the obvious stuff they will whittle it down to the less obvious. Also, when a computer forensics team is called in, they don't care squat about dogs poop, dna or anything else a standard forensics team would be interested in. Computer forensics are called in when there is a specific need to analyse a suspects equipment for illicit data.

I have nothing to hide from Mr Policeman (though a bit of stuff I might not want my mum to find) but if I did I wouldn't hide it in anything that even remotely looked like an electronic device with storage capacity - including analog video and audio tape. Actually it's WAY possible, (though incconvenient and time consuming) to store data on analog tape.

Of course you are right it depends what they are looking for and how sure they are you have it, but I wouldn't rely on MiniDisc to obsure data from a serious effort by police forensics.

[Sparky191]

One phrase for you. Click of death. It was the plague of DTP and Graphic studio's back in the day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_of_death I've lost data on CDR's, Floppies, Zips. In fact it was those failure years ago that resulted in my keeping a proper backup, (ie more than one copy) these days. I was thinking I've not lost anything off MD. But then I remembered I've lost recording off MD too. When SS or the player decided not to like the disk. On two of my old MD units the lasers died. Which meant I had to replace the unit. Pretty much everythings editable these days so it hardly much of an advantage.

Putting all that aside. If you've hardware you like and it works for you, I'm all for using it as long as possible.

[cornreaper]

Just a thought......even your most technologically inept forensics investigator with no specific knowlodge of Hi MD could see MDs lying around and think of Keanu Reeves in "The Matrix" and toss it in the evidence pile. Sure the movie was 4 or 5 years before writing data to MD's was practical/possible, but sometimes life does imitate art!

Kinda reminds me of the DVDs in "RoboCop", 10 years before we ever had our hands on them.

[pitdroidtech]

Just a thought......even your most technologically inept forensics investigator with no specific knowlodge of Hi MD could see MDs lying around and think of Keanu Reeves in "The Matrix" and toss it in the evidence pile. Sure the movie was 4 or 5 years before writing data to MD's was practical/possible, but sometimes life does imitate art!

Kinda reminds me of the DVDs in "RoboCop", 10 years before we ever had our hands on them.

There are all sorts of obscure media formats out there, some destined to become main stream, most not. For example I came across some optical discs in cartridges, similiar to mindisc but about 1/3rd the physical size, when cleaning out the old server room at work. I had never seen these discs before, or any kind of reader, and never have since. There must be a heap of proprietary formats like that never intended for the main stream. Police forensics would have to be able to access and read all such formats.

MiniDisc is actually a relatively common format (even now), just judging by the fact you can buy minidiscs off the shelf at many consumer hifi stores.

[Levanel]

What I was trying to say was, minidisc is on its way out.. they're not as common and majority of people would buy an iPod over a HiMD unit. The format may not be obselete but will definitely be worth more effort in cracking by any forensics. Plus, there are so many ways to obfuscate data into randomness. (Think steganography)

[pitdroidtech]

What I was trying to say was, minidisc is on its way out.. they're not as common and majority of people would buy an iPod over a HiMD unit. The format may not be obselete but will definitely be worth more effort in cracking by any forensics. Plus, there are so many ways to obfuscate data into randomness. (Think steganography)

well yes most people would buy an ipod or even any old mp3 player over MD, but Police forensic aren't just anybody, they are experts in their field.

It would be more effort than say an mp3 player or digital camera used to hide data, but niether of those options would require much effort. A police computer forensic expert who doesn't know about internal memory on digital cameras ought not to be in the job MD is a little harder but not obscure imho.

Randomising data, or even better really strong encryption (such as efs) would be a better bet though. Of course if using efs you would have to ensure your os could self destruct (to delete the user account with acces to the efs files) when hacked into! PGP or other 3rd party encryption would be better. And then you just pretend you forget the key when interogated. You might get fined for contempt of court or obstructing the course of justice - so depends what you are hiding whether it's worth it or not! (also make it a long and high strength key, otherwise they will easily brute force it!)

Edited January 16, 2008 by max_wedge

[theblueraja]

If I may just jump in to say MD rules. I tried leaving it early last year and got a Sony Vaio (still ATRAC ) but a few months later came right back. Let's face it, Sony created the PERFECT audio format. I don't care about market trends, etc. I'm stock piling myself, and figure the only issue in the future will be BATTERIES, so at least a few of my units will have the ugly-annoying AA pack?

[kentek]

Gee, That was a great rant!

For HiMD media try going to your local Sony Factory store, or if you have one, a FRY's Electronics.

I'm in southern CA and both of these shops have tons on HiMD media at $6.99 per disk. I always buy one when I'm near FRY's. And, one of their $1.00 coffees that is better than Starbucks. (But what coffee isn't)

I'd buy media off of the web from any of the sites that list them at $4.85 or so. Buy then, they want $5-$6 shipping. Do the math!

[theblueraja]

Gee, That was a great rant!

For HiMD media try going to your local Sony Factory store, or if you have one, a FRY's Electronics.

I'm in southern CA and both of these shops have tons on HiMD media at $6.99 per disk. I always buy one when I'm near FRY's. And, one of their $1.00 coffees that is better than Starbucks. (But what coffee isn't)

I'd buy media off of the web from any of the sites that list them at $4.85 or so. Buy then, they want $5-$6 shipping. Do the math!

Even though I joined during the HiMD days, and have many HiMD units, I still prefer standard discs. Less is more for me And if you dont have a DH10P you can so easily get LOST in your HiMD disc to find stuff.

[simonh]

As a former minidisc lover who has since 'moved on', I've a couple of points I'd like to make as to why I think MD is struggling:

1. D.R.M. Never a popular acronym, minidisc has been plagued with it from the start. This was Sony's biggest mistake I think. It was inevitable that a format that had such a ridiculous concept built in was doomed to fail. CDR and DVD+/-R have no interest in anyone's rights (and nor should they).

2. MP3. The beginning of the end for mindisc. Shareable, downloadable and copyable anywhere. CD lookup via freedb or musicbrainz or gracenote etc. No manual inputting of track titles (ouch, my fingers are hurting). No DRM. Still the most popular digital audio format today, mainly thanks to the LAME encoder and the lack of DRM. Fantastic quality using the LAME presets or equivalent V* presets today. ATRAC cannot compete any more than AAC can. Sony Connect which I clicked on the site today said:

"We have performed a basic system check and detected that your system is not compatible with the CONNECT service. We recommend to download and install the item below and try again.

Microsoft® Internet Explorer"

Firefox is not supported? What a joke! Goodbye. (I read that Connect was closing, by the way).

3. Compact Discs and CD/DVDR. Seen by many, many people as the only digital/physical format worth buying today. Why would anyone buy a prerecorded MD? For that matter why would anyone buy a recordable minidisc?

4. The Ipod. Yes, I own an 80gb classic. I hate Apple more than Sony, but no one else offers such large storage capacities. No more needs to be said why it has become so popular. And no, I have never purchased a single track from their store.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, but supporting minidisc now seems to be a case of pathological optimism. Hi-md, the 'new' format, does not seem to have any home decks. A last ditch effort to rob more money from folk, I believe. Well, you can count me out.

[theblueraja]

Says the "beginner" with only a few posts under his belt. Well you've come to the wrong place to diss with MD my friend.

As a former minidisc lover who has since 'moved on', I've a couple of points I'd like to make as to why I think MD is struggling:

1. D.R.M. Never a popular acronym, minidisc has been plagued with it from the start. This was Sony's biggest mistake I think. It was inevitable that a format that had such a ridiculous concept built in was doomed to fail. CDR and DVD+/-R have no interest in anyone's rights (and nor should they).

I BUY my music. My MDs are from MY CDs. DRM is not an issue for me.

2. MP3. The beginning of the end for mindisc. Shareable, downloadable and copyable anywhere. CD lookup via freedb or musicbrainz or gracenote etc. No manual inputting of track titles (ouch, my fingers are hurting). No DRM. Still the most popular digital audio format today, mainly thanks to the LAME encoder and the lack of DRM. Fantastic quality using the LAME presets or equivalent V* presets today. ATRAC cannot compete any more than AAC can. Sony Connect which I clicked on the site today said:

"We have performed a basic system check and detected that your system is not compatible with the CONNECT service. We recommend to download and install the item below and try again.

Microsoft® Internet Explorer"

Firefox is not supported? What a joke! Goodbye. (I read that Connect was closing, by the way).

MP3 sucks no matter what bitrate. ATRAC coding is superior. I bought an iPod (owned it for TWO days), ripped CDs "lossless" and they still sounded like crap. Part of the sound quality is not just the coding but the hardware itself. "Goodbye" to you then.

3. Compact Discs and CD/DVDR. Seen by many, many people as the only digital/physical format worth buying today. Why would anyone buy a prerecorded MD? For that matter why would anyone buy a recordable minidisc?

I'll agree a prerecorded MD is stupid. I love the flexibility of making my own MDs, and fitting more than one album on an MD. Why buy a recordable minidisc? Just ask anyone in this forum. This is a superior format. Smaller in size than CD, yet maintains sound quality very close to it, and we like removable media... not "oops, my HD got ZAPPED" and your whole library is gone (of course you can back up, but you get my point)

4. The Ipod. Yes, I own an 80gb classic. I hate Apple more than Sony, but no one else offers such large storage capacities. No more needs to be said why it has become so popular. And no, I have never purchased a single track from their store.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, but supporting minidisc now seems to be a case of pathological optimism. Hi-md, the 'new' format, does not seem to have any home decks. A last ditch effort to rob more money from folk, I believe. Well, you can count me out.

No offense, but as far as "pathological optimism" goes, I could care less about what the TRENDS are for this format. MD WORKS for me, despite it being blown off the radar of cosumers. People still spin vinyl and play 8-track tapes. Stick with what you like and what works for you. To me iPod sucks. It's a great toy with lots of cool bells and whistles... in fact I wonder if the NEXT iPod that comes out they will actually forget to include MUSIC PLAYING as an option.

[Strungup]

Gee, That was a great rant!

For HiMD media try going to your local Sony Factory store, or if you have one, a FRY's Electronics.

I'm in southern CA and both of these shops have tons on HiMD media at $6.99 per disk. I always buy one when I'm near FRY's. And, one of their $1.00 coffees that is better than Starbucks. (But what coffee isn't)

I'd buy media off of the web from any of the sites that list them at $4.85 or so. Buy then, they want $5-$6 shipping. Do the math!

Friends dont let friends drink Starbucks!!!!!!

[theblueraja]

A much better thought out and mature response than my rant back, Wizard Good show.

[Strungup]

Says the "beginner" with only a few posts under his belt. Well you've come to the wrong place to diss with MD my friend.

I BUY my music. My MDs are from MY CDs. DRM is not an issue for me.

MP3 sucks no matter what bitrate. ATRAC coding is superior. I bought an iPod (owned it for TWO days), ripped CDs "lossless" and they still sounded like crap. Part of the sound quality is not just the coding but the hardware itself. "Goodbye" to you then.

I'll agree a prerecorded MD is stupid. I love the flexibility of making my own MDs, and fitting more than one album on an MD. Why buy a recordable minidisc? Just ask anyone in this forum. This is a superior format. Smaller in size than CD, yet maintains sound quality very close to it, and we like removable media... not "oops, my HD got ZAPPED" and your whole library is gone (of course you can back up, but you get my point)

No offense, but as far as "pathological optimism" goes, I could care less about what the TRENDS are for this format. MD WORKS for me, despite it being blown off the radar of cosumers. People still spin vinyl and play 8-track tapes. Stick with what you like and what works for you. To me iPod sucks. It's a great toy with lots of cool bells and whistles... in fact I wonder if the NEXT iPod that comes out they will actually forget to include MUSIC PLAYING as an option.

Actually .......... I like the Prerecorded ones , I am collecting them , and I think they are cool , Just like peanut butter and banana with honey on wheat bread , to me , that is cool , but nobody else around me is eating it , but again for me It is "Cool" ,...... I didnt say anything about popular .

If what is "Popular " is what is "Cool" to you then you are a Sheep of society ( That wasnt directed at you Raj , but the poster you responded to )

The sound of ATRAC is far more Analouge , in warmth and detail than MP3 , this has been proven time and time again , only an audiologicaly uninformed person would not know that . Agreed the MP3 is more universal , but again , if what is "Popular" is what is "Cool" then your a sheep .

MD isnt about what is "Popular " MD is about Sound , and having that quality of Sound in a Portable format , it is also (and MAINLY) about Capturing sound . Read Sony's History , and partucularly about MD and Why they made it . and contemplate the Marvelous achievement of being able to shrink down a tabletop sized PROFESSIONAL recording machine ( where the Idea for MD came from ) into a box that fit in your hand and ran off of Batteries.

Can you do that ?

If your not into Recording , and your not into Audiophile quality sound ,............ Then Why are you on this board ? 3 posts , and your blurting out negatives about something you obviously do NOT understand ? or appreciate , ......... interesting , were you a lonely child? Did you get picked on a lot in school?

I can see the sandbox now >>>>>( (you)" You shouldnt eat that Peanut butter sandwhich , you should get the chef boyohboy package lunch like me , my mom ONLY buys the Package lunches for me !!!! .........(Me). "Really ? .......thats sad , I LIKE homemade food , and Package stuff is full of chemicals and garbage and I also have some Gummi beaRS AND A BURRITO , IN MY LUNCH BOX , My Mom ONLY Makes homecooked food for ME !!!)

Drivers License Poker , newbie .... come on lay the cards out ,........ weakest hand buys the drinks .

Chauffeurs License , Single Solo Pilot license , 18 wheeler truck license , Studio engineer (Studied and practiced ,many years, good sir)

Security License ,Weapons level. and the most needed Motorcycle ( Chauffeur , Commercial, Motorcycle, Regular all on 1 card, and I have been ON the Laguna Seca track with my Bike !!)

I was Soloing and preparing for my Pilot License test when 9/11 hit .

Life isnt about the deskjob or about the iPoood , it is supposed to be about living , and exploring , learning , apparently you prefer comparing things you have no knowledge of to things that have no meaning in an attempt to sound intelligent . so go ahead and eat your Packaged lunches .

The only place I have seen packaged lunches that were any good ,............is Japan , and most of them even though packaged , are pretty much home made.( you would have to be in Japan to know what I mean ) that means you would have to have traveled the world a bit , so as know to judge things , from just what you see in your own backyard,...............

Edited January 17, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[bobt]

amazing how many people used an early version of OMG or SS with early Net-MD and think that that's all there is for the format. Of course we all know it's about sound and convenience, as well as the ability to do live recording on a reasonable budget. As well I dearsay none of us are sheep (black sheep maybe!!), and will defend our format with knowledge and verisimilitude. (got to throw a big word in once in a while)

Like you TC I like the prerecorded, I also love to make my own, and it's easier to carry 40 or 50 MD's around in the car that 40 or 50 cassettes or cd's.

And they look cool as well

Got to get some of those glow in the dark ones

Bob

[pitdroidtech]

As a former minidisc lover who has since 'moved on', I've a couple of points I'd like to make as to why I think MD is struggling:

1. D.R.M. Never a popular acronym, minidisc has been plagued with it from the start. This was Sony's biggest mistake I think. It was inevitable that a format that had such a ridiculous concept built in was doomed to fail. CDR and DVD+/-R have no interest in anyone's rights (and nor should they).

2. MP3. The beginning of the end for mindisc. Shareable, downloadable and copyable anywhere. CD lookup via freedb or musicbrainz or gracenote etc. No manual inputting of track titles (ouch, my fingers are hurting). No DRM. Still the most popular digital audio format today, mainly thanks to the LAME encoder and the lack of DRM. Fantastic quality using the LAME presets or equivalent V* presets today. ATRAC cannot compete any more than AAC can. Sony Connect which I clicked on the site today said:

"We have performed a basic system check and detected that your system is not compatible with the CONNECT service. We recommend to download and install the item below and try again.

Microsoft® Internet Explorer"

Firefox is not supported? What a joke! Goodbye. (I read that Connect was closing, by the way).

3. Compact Discs and CD/DVDR. Seen by many, many people as the only digital/physical format worth buying today. Why would anyone buy a prerecorded MD? For that matter why would anyone buy a recordable minidisc?

4. The Ipod. Yes, I own an 80gb classic. I hate Apple more than Sony, but no one else offers such large storage capacities. No more needs to be said why it has become so popular. And no, I have never purchased a single track from their store.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, but supporting minidisc now seems to be a case of pathological optimism. Hi-md, the 'new' format, does not seem to have any home decks. A last ditch effort to rob more money from folk, I believe. Well, you can count me out.

A few years ago what you say would mostly be true (however afaik SS has always worked with cddb for CD's?), but now the story is quite different. You can now buy minidisc recorders that allow drag and drop copying of music to the device via explorer, Minidisc units operate as usb storage devices, self-recorded tracks can be uploaded to the computer, SS is completely free of DRM rstrictions (though yes, CONNECT is dead, but you can buy an increasing catalogue of DRM free music from itunes and other online stores and drag that onto your device), and you can even upload old school MD recordings to pc using the MZRH1.

True, ipod has a larger capacity than minidisc, but if you want hdd based mp3 players Sony cover that market segment as well. However, for people who are happy enough with a few GB of music, Minidisc has an advantage over 1-8GB mp3 players in that you can have 80 gb or more of music that can be swapped out to your player in a few seconds, whereas a 1-8GB capacity mp3 player you have to wipe and reload whenever you want to change your music collection.

So the only real complaint that remains is to do with the media format itself. If you don't like the MD format and wish to stick with CD, you are free to use a handheld CD player, but I think you will find the mini-disc players a lot less cumbersome! As far as ipod goes, you still have to rip cd's to the player, so in this respect ipod is no different minidisc. Not to mention the audio quality of minidisc far out weighs ipod (I'm not talking abnout atrac per se - even if you run 320Kbps MP3 tunes on your minidisc or ipod - the music hardware itself is better than ipod).

Oh I suppose hdd based players size per megabyte of storage is always an advantage over minidisc players (which are slightly larger than most hdd players), but this is not only an ipod advantage - any hdd based player also has the same advantage. And a Sony hdd based player is in my view a much better qulaity audio device than ipod.

So the argument is between the form factor, not between sony/apple. The particular advantages of the minidisc form factor: durable storage, easy to change media (as opposed to using a computer - just eject and replace from your collection), smaller than cd. Then of course the ability to record high quality audio with the device itself - far superior to all but the most expensive handheld digital recorders.

So there are manyu reasons why someone would still be interested in the mindisc format. I myself use my phone as a mp3 player for day to day use. But the minidisc absolutely rocks as an easily portable high quality sound device that I can easily move between my car (via fm transmitter), home stereo, friends stereo's, bedside for night listening through portable speakers etc etc. It's also a top notch recorder: record music direct from music dvd's (or my set top box) via optical connections or analog from pretty much anything with a line out or headphone jack. I can then copy that recorded audio to computer and burn cd's, rip mp3's or whatever I want.

Sorry but this is a far more versatile form factor than ipod!!!