I never realised SonicStage was so bad!

[mog the cat]

I have just ripped my music using itunes and imported it into SS and it just takes so long for it to get album information. On itunes it takes about 2 seconds and you dont have to scroll through this big list of different albums, some dont even have the album info that matches your cd completely. and then when it gives you a album picture it is a realy lame image that is a realy washed out of a photo taken of a realy old smashed up record cover. so i did what any nerd would do and went on the internet to find my own.

sony make very good mp3 players but theire software is just so bad if they do not improve it and the time came to get another mp3 player it would not be a sony.

[Old skool D]

I have just ripped my music using itunes and imported it into SS and it just takes so long for it to get album information. On itunes it takes about 2 seconds and you dont have to scroll through this big list of different albums, some dont even have the album info that matches your cd completely. and then when it gives you a album picture it is a realy lame image that is a realy washed out of a photo taken of a realy old smashed up record cover. so i did what any nerd would do and went on the internet to find my own.

sony make very good mp3 players but theire software is just so bad if they do not improve it and the time came to get another mp3 player it would not be a sony.

I'm sorry you feel that way Yes there are some quirks with SS, and yes in comparasion to Itunes, it may come second, but I don't think it's that bad.I have had several ipods, and as I have stated on here before, for me SQ is more important than software, hence why I no longer have an ipod. SS does it's job:getting music onto your player. I've never had any problems with it.

[ceres]

I have just ripped my music using itunes and imported it into SS and it just takes so long for it to get album information. On itunes it takes about 2 seconds and you dont have to scroll through this big list of different albums, some dont even have the album info that matches your cd completely. and then when it gives you a album picture it is a realy lame image that is a realy washed out of a photo taken of a realy old smashed up record cover. so i did what any nerd would do and went on the internet to find my own.

sony make very good mp3 players but theire software is just so bad if they do not improve it and the time came to get another mp3 player it would not be a sony.

Yes SS album information can be a real pain. That´s why I would rip in mp3 lame and use the great mp3tag program from www.mp3tag.de

You can easily incorporate album art this way and everything is compatible with SS and all the other management programs out there.

I recommend you use this option as it will minimize your SS exposure.

[Shinji Ikeda]

I have just ripped my music using itunes and imported it into SS and it just takes so long for it to get album information. On itunes it takes about 2 seconds and you dont have to scroll through this big list of different albums, some dont even have the album info that matches your cd completely. and then when it gives you a album picture it is a realy lame image that is a realy washed out of a photo taken of a realy old smashed up record cover. so i did what any nerd would do and went on the internet to find my own.

sony make very good mp3 players but theire software is just so bad if they do not improve it and the time came to get another mp3 player it would not be a sony.

It takes time to get to know how to use SonicStage. My experience has not been the same as yours. SonicStage is more of a tool designed for nerds. Like GQ Smooth I have had no problems. There are quirky features in SonicStage, and I feel that I am comfortable with the way the software works. It may not be the best, but it is a great software for uses with Sony audio devices.

By the way, SonicStage has set ups that are best to change, which will give better freedom and flexibility in managing your music.

[pata2001]

I never realised SonicStage was so bad!

I guess it takes a while to sink in. Welcome to the club. As any reviews done since the HD3 and after, everybody likes the hardware, but not the software (sonicstage), yet Sony doesn't seem to understand that.

It takes time to get to know how to use SonicStage. My experience has not been the same as yours. SonicStage is more of a tool designed for nerds.

Sony is marketing their DAPs as general consumer electronics. How long does it take you to turn on your TV or use your DVD player? Consumer electronics should not require prolonged time for customers to learn their usage. Nerds don't use Sony/Sonicstage anyway, they buy iPods and install linux/rockbox on them.

The market pretty much show what the consumer wants, and easy to use product. Sony fails again and again. It's a no brainer how iPods become so successful, yet the competitors fail to learn anything from Apple.

[bangraman]

It takes time to get to know how to use SonicStage. My experience has not been the same as yours. SonicStage is more of a tool designed for nerds.

A recent call to Sony support for the hell of it produced the following howler, which really sums it up best for what sort of person Chronicstage is best suited for. In response to my question "But for example, even Windows Media Player doesn't seem to have these issues" the answer was "Well you see sir, Windows Media Player is for professional use. Sonicstage is for consumers."

In other words, it's for people who don't know any better. And it's a tool designed by nerds who're not only borderline incompetent but patronising the user base too. The sad thing is, there are people defending this POS.

The same thing could be said about the much-overstated superior sound 'quality' of course, given the similar or lower fidelity and the higher instances of hiss with various quality IEM's in comparison to other competing players from Apple, Samsung et al. Sony almost always does EQ right... but it means slathering syrup topping onto a pancake base that's not quite as good as others. Me, I usually like my pancakes dry and for that reason, I don't rate the Sony as a leader in the pack. If I want decent core sound and the ability to excessively flavour it at my discretion, I'd probably go for the Cowon D2.

[gotthat]

ss isn't that hard at all, i have had no problem with sony software, it put the music onto ur player, very simple and easy to use

[veggiemusician]

Although I think there are much better software out there, I think SS is fine for a Flashplayer.

Infact I feel that for a beginner SS is easier to rip a CD and transfer it to the MP3 player than WMP11.

I think the key is to drag n drop albums into SS rather than have it scan for them.

[theblueraja]

I'm sorry you feel that way Yes there are some quirks with SS, and yes in comparasion to Itunes, it may come second, but I don't think it's that bad.I have had several ipods, and as I have stated on here before, for me SQ is more important than software, hence why I no longer have an ipod. SS does it's job:getting music onto your player. I've never had any problems with it.

I completely agree. iTunes, like iPod, is beautiful in LOOK and FUNCTION... Sonic Stage & Sony players SOUND best... and what are we all here for? Audio.

I have some hang ups about Sonic Stage, but the ATRAC signature sound (especially at lower bitrates, since I use 132kb) is so worth it.

[markey]

I'm sorry you feel that way Yes there are some quirks with SS, and yes in comparasion to Itunes, it may come second, but I don't think it's that bad.I have had several ipods, and as I have stated on here before, for me SQ is more important than software, hence why I no longer have an ipod. SS does it's job:getting music onto your player. I've never had any problems with it.

I completely agree. iTunes, like iPod, is beautiful in LOOK and FUNCTION... Sonic Stage & Sony players SOUND best... and what are we all here for? Audio.

I have some hang ups about Sonic Stage, but the ATRAC signature sound (especially at lower bitrates, since I use 132kb) is so worth it.

I couldn't agree more guys. It's all about the music and the sq. Not about ease of use.

[bangraman]

One could say that ease of loading and the flexibility of loading and playlisting that the iPod offers is one of the key aspects of 'it's about the music'. For me it certainly overrules a superior Equaliser (not superior sound quality as in the testing I've done the Sonys don't offer it in comparison to the iPod), especially as I use superior headgear which doesn't rely on EQ for decent sound.

I love Sony gear because I'm a geek and they give me geek love. I pick up the MZ-RH1 for example and my inner geek gets a warm glow, as it does with the A808. However I find them unusable as a software/hardware package which is the only way in which I evaluate players especially if you're tied to one loading software. Thanks to Chronicstage it's definitely not about the music - whereas due to the way that iTunes/iPod works, the iPod is all about the music. I just get no geek love from the iPod.

[pata2001]

One could say that ease of loading and the flexibility of loading and playlisting that the iPod offers is one of the key aspects of 'it's about the music'. For me it certainly overrules a superior Equaliser (not superior sound quality as in the testing I've done the Sonys don't offer it in comparison to the iPod), especially as I use superior headgear which doesn't rely on EQ for decent sound.

Yup, agreed.

[wham44]

i used a pair of good earphones too but felt that the sound in an ipod is like dead. thus i sold it and got the sony nw a808 :)

[pata2001]

i used a pair of good earphones too but felt that the sound in an ipod is like dead. thus i sold it and got the sony nw a808 :)

You probably don't know bangraman's "headgear" then.

[ceres]

You probably don't know bangraman's "headgear" then.

Well, I own both the ue 5pros and now the triple fi 10s and both are a waste on any ipod other than the 1st gen shuffle. there is enough technical analysis out there to show what the 5th gen full size ipod does to sound via the headphone jack. if you think that´s hi quality reproduction you are mistaken. In a sense the latest s7 suffers from a bloated response in the bass department but clarity, plasticity and sound stage are inspiring. The 808 is dead silent, no hiss whatsover, no dsp white noise which per se doesn´t mean so much but many people think it´s a hallmark of great sound. Sony has been slacking for a long long time since the hd5 which sported the most remarkable sound benchmarks. What came next was a great disappointment with the a 1000/1200/3000 and all flash players until the s7 being clearly inferior to thr hd 5 but yet on par with the ipods at that time as every lab result has shown. How come that the 50 usd 1st gen shuffle with its unique output stage still has an enormous edge over the current 250 usd 5.5 gen or 2nd gen nano? because it´s all about the music? 200-1000usd iems for the ipod headphone jack?

software/interface. here itunes really shines. I don´t see anything major missing here. Itunes is getting better with every iteration. There are some stubborn design quirks from the mac world but other than that only geek features may be missing, Most people will never miss them. It´s incredibly easy as a beginner to pick up itunes and use it for ones personal needs. The program grows on you and there is a lot to discover even for the advanced user. Design and usability are excellent, the program is responsive and overall very stable even on vista these days.

Sonic Stage on the other hand is still very bad for a host of reasons. It´s not as useless as it once was. However it till drags down the overall experience with my sony walkman quite a bit. SS is not per se badly designed as far as ui and presentation are concerned but a lot of functions are awkwardly dispersed over the entire program and the functions set per se is vastly inferior to itunes. Given that it´s hard to use for an advanced user that has seen many jukeboxes such as wmp, amarok, winamp etc. most noobs will not bother. In 2007 the lack of a real search engine is devastating. I don´t see why SS hardlocks when I transfer an album to my walkman. Connect Store is useless. No Podcast support to speak off. Stupid 3gp container for aac files. No proper mp4 tag support (neither itunes nor nero tags are supported!), crippled backup, crippled transfer speeds. Yes SS is to blame for that. I ran some benchmarks and the 808 is slightly faster than the 2g nano but transfer times are 100-200% faster on itunes/nano!, unintuitive playlisting, no option to keep folders organized, lies about attrac´s supposed quaility @ bitrates >64kbits, lame tagger, constant recacheing of album art. Painful cd database function -> don´t know if I should laugh or cry @ some of the results I am presented. There is a lot more that´s on my mind but I guess what one can clearly see is that a lot of people will not put up with SS just for the sake of hardware. I have to wonder. It´s such a joy to move around on my 808, snappy, smart interface, everything available with 2 or 3 button clicks, great search and so forth. Why spoil it all with SS?

Edited June 9, 2007 by ceres

[bangraman]

Strangely I get more white noise with the A808 with varying combos of IEM's than with any other player in my possession right now. On balance I'd say it's one of the hissier ones out there. It's not really the white noise though that's the issue. And clearly we must be looking at different lab results.

I wrote a post on Head-Fi recently entitled "How do you compare your players?" and I fully expect it to sink without a trace within a few days, as I believe a miniscule percentage of people who profess opinions on portables actually compares the players in a truly level, head-to-head manner, and that most of the people out there aren't really interested in doing anything beyond pressing home the validity of their gut reactions or peer opinions. But try it - and it might surprise you.

I'm hoping that if I run Chronicstage on it's own machine, then I'm in a better position to pinpoint where things may be not working or where it might be slowing down and solve execution issues that way. Either way, the sound quality of the A808 is not a standout and that is not why I'm making this relatively herculean effort to smooth my path to Chronicstage. It is simply the nicest player out there, it gives me geek joy as well as working better than any other machine bearing an NW prefix to date. That's not saying much to be honest, but the A808 is a player I actually want to use despite Chronic. And this is a first, ladies and gents.

[theblueraja]

I couldn't agree more guys. It's all about the music and the sq. Not about ease of use.

Well then I'm a hypocrite because I know clearly that minidisc sounds the BEST, but I have given it up for some convenience... maybe there's a fine line between quality and practicality in today's age??

[LuLu]

Hi everyone,

A big problem with SS is the lack of user testing, IMHO. I don't think they ever watched anyone using it. It seems to have been designed and tested for individual tasks and not work flow. For example, you import songs when you are in "All tracks" mode and add them to the playlist (a logical next step) but you have to switch to "Playlist" mode before transferring. This would seem reasonable if you don't add all your new tracks to a playlist for transfer but its not the way I use the software. I import new tracks, associate them with a playlist then transfer them. I don't how much time I've spent switching btwn modes.

If you think SS is bad wait until you see Image Converter. Hard to believe it is at version 3.0. The interface looks like the code was written "the night before it was due".

Here's just a few gems...

1. There is no way to delete highlighted videos off the flash player using the delete key - you must click on the delete button. But you can use the delete key to remove videos listed under items in the RSS manager. This is very counterintuitive.
2. You can't change the order of how the videos appear on your flash player - it is always alphabetical.
3. The RSS manager component does not keep track of the titles you have seen but not added to the transfer list for download. It does provide information on which ones you have already downloaded, which isn't of much use since you've presumably already seen them.

One good thing is that eventually you get used to these "nuances".

LOG

Edited June 14, 2007 by LuLu

[veggiemusician]

Im trying to convince a programming friend of mine to write a programme that will basicly look like a drag n drop window where I drag n drop MP3s into sony mp3 players. It can also make playlists and all the other bells n whistles.

At very worst get a windows mediaplay11 plugin that will also rip and suport atrac.

I dont mind Sonicstage but wish for simple drag n drop.

[bangraman]

Im trying to convince a programming friend of mine to write a programme that will basicly look like a drag n drop window where I drag n drop MP3s into sony mp3 players. It can also make playlists and all the other bells n whistles.

What, just like you had inside info to get the beta gapless firmware for the Zen Vision M? Bwahahaha, happy Photoshopping

On a related note to this thread, I think I should have a countdown thread: "Countdown to bangraman having a Chronicstage-induced aneurism". This is the first time I've seriously used Chronic day in, day out in about two years and it really is still a remarkably crappy piece of software. The one thing it really succeeds in is to kill off a significant percentage of the musical enjoyment to be had resulting from the convenience of having your music digitally and centrally stored.

However, it is helping my diet as I'm sick of doughnuts, seeing it all the time on Vista + Chronic.