Any sign of a new HD Walkman?

[aob9]

My HD3 is showing signs of aging ( e.g battery life ) and I will need to upgrade soon. I use it in my car and it has almost 20GB of music on it. Trouble is, Sony doesn't have a device with similar capacity( and I will NEVER buy an ipod). Does anyone have any inside info on a high capacity Walkman coming in the near future? Seen as SONY have finally gone 'Drag and Drop' it may be worth waiting for.

[Ascariss]

don't hold your breath.

[aob9]

don't hold your breath.

I take that as a 'NO' then..time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have an idea on a DAP manufacturer with good SQ and large capacity?

[ceres]

I take that as a 'NO' then..time to look elsewhere. Does anyone have an idea on a DAP manufacturer with good SQ and large capacity?

wait for the next cowon in spring 08. it´s been a long time in the making so i would expect a great device.

[EZero]

Sony is so retarded. Why not have a touch-screen HD Walkman? Or even a non-TS fully featured Walkman?

And then they wonder why they aren't even a blip in the audio market. Rather than give us something we want, they're wasting our time with a Rolly.

[Akai Kenshi]

The industry as a whole seems to be moving away from hard-disks. Flash is getting cheaper, it's less fragile and power hungry, and the demand for DAPs higher than 4 GB in capacity is not that great anyway.

[atown8605]

The industry as a whole seems to be moving away from hard-disks. Flash is getting cheaper, it's less fragile and power hungry, and the demand for DAPs higher than 4 GB in capacity is not that great anyway.

I HAVE TO AGREE!

[bob123_]

If I was Sony I would forget about the HDD player market and focus on Flash Drives. I'm sure that's what they will do. It won't be that long till there are 20gb+ flash drives in players, and when there are, HDD players will start to become irrelevant.

[EZero]

But here's the problem, Apple has already got the advantage in the flash market. 16GB? We won't be seeing that from Sony until 2009, when Apple has a 64 GB iPod Touch. I wouldn't mind if Sony had an 8GB Touchscreen player, but the fact is, they don't. They are completely behind the times. It took them years to release a video DAP, and when they did, it was easily outclassed by its competitors. At least in the Harddrive market, they were somewhat competitive. Why is it I'm seeing iPod Nano commercials, but nothing of the new Walkmans? It's not rocket scientist, Sony is either too stupid or doesn't care about the digital audio market anymore. Sony used to be able to sell a product, now, they simply can't. I would love to get a Walkman, I've been waiting for two years for Sony to have a real competitor; the sad fact is though, it looks like they'll never have one.

Edited September 10, 2007 by EZero

[bob123_]

I don't think Sony has given up. Clearly with the release of the recent products they are trying. I just think sony is being realistic about what they have and about how dominant Apple/Ipod is. They probably realise they don't have a product that is going to make enough of an impact. Given Apple/Ipod's dominance it will either take the passage of time (ie. the market changes) or a revolutionary product for Sony to make serious inroads. Until then they probably just want to lie low. There maybe a big change in the market there is no longer sale of DRM audio. At the moment Ipods have an advantage because they are they only players that can play content downloaded from ITunes (with the exception of the EMI cataloge that is). IF DRM is totally removed and consumers have a greater ability to switch between players then the Game is on again for sony. I think that is why they have now gone to WMP/drag&drop - so that in a few years time (or sooner) they are ready to have a real go at the market.

[dura_]

Well, the A8xx series is excellent, and personally, I do not see the use for a touch-DAP.

My DAP lives in my pocket, I start it up, select te music and often leave it alone for the duration of the album or longer.

For telephones touchscreens are great of course, because users interact intensely with their telephones, making calls, pictures, appointments, SMS, GPS, update or read adresses etc. etc.

But for a DAP it's just fashion, because Apple has it and now suddenly Sony is retarded for not having it?

I'm glad there are different manufacturers with different approaches, gives me more choice.

[aob9]

If I was Sony I would forget about the HDD player market and focus on Flash Drives. I'm sure that's what they will do. It won't be that long till there are 20gb+ flash drives in players, and when there are, HDD players will start to become irrelevant.

Okay then, maybe I should rephrase my query a little bit. Does anybody think Sony will release a HIGH CAPACITY Walkman ( HD or Flash) in the near future. A 16GB version of either the 61* or 81* would ideal.

[ceres]

Well, the A8xx series is excellent, and personally, I do not see the use for a touch-DAP.

My DAP lives in my pocket, I start it up, select te music and often leave it alone for the duration of the album or longer.

For telephones touchscreens are great of course, because users interact intensely with their telephones, making calls, pictures, appointments, SMS, GPS, update or read adresses etc. etc.

But for a DAP it's just fashion, because Apple has it and now suddenly Sony is retarded for not having it?

I'm glad there are different manufacturers with different approaches, gives me more choice.

exactly my cup of tea. also, there is no 16 gig nano as it would be to expensive. the price difference from touch 8gig to touch 16 gig is 100 dollars so it seems apple is not ahead of the game any longer as far as the ability to procure flash for cheap is concerned. samsung and sandisk are pretty much the sole providers of bulk quantities. apple was given great deals a few years ago which secured the pole position in the capacity for money race for a long time (only san disk competing there)

the industry is not stupid and will not likely allow a single buyer to dictate terms any longer. i don´t understand the bustle about the touchscreen and some nice icons on it. i don´t need an advertising channel in my mp3 player. neither do i require reception of the virtual farts morons emanate on youtube. no need for relics in my pocket.

Edited September 10, 2007 by ceres

[ceres]

Okay then, maybe I should rephrase my query a little bit. Does anybody think Sony will release a HIGH CAPACITY Walkman ( HD or Flash) in the near future. A 16GB version of either the 61* or 81* would ideal.

yes for Christmas. I reckon they will introduce something above the NWZ 818. Sony considers itself a Premium Brand and they have never been shy on pricing so yes there will be something at 299 and 399 (usd and euro).

[Boss123]

Yeah,I think Sony will release a HIGH CAPACITY Walkman ( HD or Flash) in the near future.

[Estlin]

My HD3 is showing signs of aging ( e.g battery life ) and I will need to upgrade soon. I use it in my car and it has almost 20GB of music on it. Trouble is, Sony doesn't have a device with similar capacity( and I will NEVER buy an ipod). Does anyone have any inside info on a high capacity Walkman coming in the near future? Seen as SONY have finally gone 'Drag and Drop' it may be worth waiting for.

I am nearly in the same boat as you. I have the HD1, but it's almost out of room. (I have maybe 200 mb left.) I would love to buy another replacement from Sony, but right now there are no options. The only thing is the new Ipod Classic: 80 or 160 Gb model. I fear I am going to have to purchase one of those in the next couple of months. Why can't Sony issue something 30 gig or higher in order to be somewhat competitive with Apple?

[aob9]

yes for Christmas. I reckon they will introduce something above the NWZ 818. Sony considers itself a Premium Brand and they have never been shy on pricing so yes there will be something at 299 and 399 (usd and euro).

You are probably right. They're not shy about price so if anyone will release a high capacity flash based player it will be Sony.....I'll limp along for now.

[EZero]

I don't think Sony has given up. Clearly with the release of the recent products they are trying. I just think sony is being realistic about what they have and about how dominant Apple/Ipod is. They probably realise they don't have a product that is going to make enough of an impact. Given Apple/Ipod's dominance it will either take the passage of time (ie. the market changes) or a revolutionary product for Sony to make serious inroads. Until then they probably just want to lie low. There maybe a big change in the market there is no longer sale of DRM audio. At the moment Ipods have an advantage because they are they only players that can play content downloaded from ITunes (with the exception of the EMI cataloge that is). IF DRM is totally removed and consumers have a greater ability to switch between players then the Game is on again for sony. I think that is why they have now gone to WMP/drag&drop - so that in a few years time (or sooner) they are ready to have a real go at the market.

They may not have given up, but what they are doing is a far cry from attempting to compete. There is being realistic, and then simply not trying. Yes, no company can compete with the iPod, Apple is simply too nimble and too forward thinking to ever be caught up by their competitors. But there is a vast opening for the number 2 spot, something that Sony simply doesn't seem too keen on competing for. Look at Microsoft with the Zune, despite how I feel about it, at least they are trying to make headway in the market. You said it in your post, Sony needs to come up with a revolutionary product, but they aren't. They are making refreshes to their flash drive line of Walkmen, and that's it. Samsung, Microsoft, Creative, and others are at least trying to create interesting devices in an attempt to compete for the second spot, Sony has simply stopped.

Well, the A8xx series is excellent, and personally, I do not see the use for a touch-DAP.

My DAP lives in my pocket, I start it up, select te music and often leave it alone for the duration of the album or longer.

For telephones touchscreens are great of course, because users interact intensely with their telephones, making calls, pictures, appointments, SMS, GPS, update or read adresses etc. etc.

But for a DAP it's just fashion, because Apple has it and now suddenly Sony is retarded for not having it?

I'm glad there are different manufacturers with different approaches, gives me more choice.

In the entire MP3 market, do you know what Sony's market share is? It's not even a double-digit number. You may think that the A8xx series is excellent and amazing, but going by the sales of it, not that many people agree with you. The only people who are buying Sony's Walkmen are a very, very small amount of people, who are either loyal to Sony, or believe Sony has the best sound quality. Don't you think it's embarrassing for Sony, who created the portable audio market, to not even be seen as a worthy competitor? Sony should at least be able to offer an entire line comparable to that of the iPod family. They aren't. The products they release are simply good mp3 players, but nothing remarkable or anything to write home about. They are lost in the crowd of many equally good, and typically cheaper players, and then you wonder why Sony is not even considered a major player in this market.

A touchscreen may not be useful to you, but it's a selling point. It's unique, few players have it, and, well it's kind of cool. A novelty, maybe, but I guarantee you that Apple is going to sell more Touch players than Sony has sold Walkmen for the entire year.

I am saying Sony is retarded because of this. You claim that you love having options, but what exactly are people's options? If I want a HD MP3 player, it's basically either the iPod or the Zune. If I want a touchscreen player, it's either the iPod or the upcoming Samsung DAP. If I want an 4 or 8GB player, then why should someone buy an A8xx over the Nano, which is an established brand, and is at least going to be supported heavily by both Apple and accessory manufacturers?

I don't like Apple. I really don't. But I have an iPod, and I will likely be getting a new one from one of the recently announced iPod's, because Sony doesn't have any better alternatives. That is my point.

[aob9]

They may not have given up, but what they are doing is a far cry from attempting to compete. There is being realistic, and then simply not trying. Yes, no company can compete with the iPod, Apple is simply too nimble and too forward thinking to ever be caught up by their competitors. But there is a vast opening for the number 2 spot, something that Sony simply doesn't seem too keen on competing for. Look at Microsoft with the Zune, despite how I feel about it, at least they are trying to make headway in the market. You said it in your post, Sony needs to come up with a revolutionary product, but they aren't. They are making refreshes to their flash drive line of Walkmen, and that's it. Samsung, Microsoft, Creative, and others are at least trying to create interesting devices in an attempt to compete for the second spot, Sony has simply stopped.

In the entire MP3 market, do you know what Sony's market share is? It's not even a double-digit number. You may think that the A8xx series is excellent and amazing, but going by the sales of it, not that many people agree with you. The only people who are buying Sony's Walkmen are a very, very small amount of people, who are either loyal to Sony, or believe Sony has the best sound quality. Don't you think it's embarrassing for Sony, who created the portable audio market, to not even be seen as a worthy competitor? Sony should at least be able to offer an entire line comparable to that of the iPod family. They aren't. The products they release are simply good mp3 players, but nothing remarkable or anything to write home about. They are lost in the crowd of many equally good, and typically cheaper players, and then you wonder why Sony is not even considered a major player in this market.

A touchscreen may not be useful to you, but it's a selling point. It's unique, few players have it, and, well it's kind of cool. A novelty, maybe, but I guarantee you that Apple is going to sell more Touch players than Sony has sold Walkmen for the entire year.

I am saying Sony is retarded because of this. You claim that you love having options, but what exactly are people's options? If I want a HD MP3 player, it's basically either the iPod or the Zune. If I want a touchscreen player, it's either the iPod or the upcoming Samsung DAP. If I want an 4 or 8GB player, then why should someone buy an A8xx over the Nano, which is an established brand, and is at least going to be supported heavily by both Apple and accessory manufacturers?

I don't like Apple. I really don't. But I have an iPod, and I will likely be getting a new one from one of the recently announced iPod's, because Sony doesn't have any better alternatives. That is my point.

Well delivered and well said..........but think about this also. Sony will never beat Apple ( I don't like them either ) because, although they probably have a few forward thinking people in their employ they have two major stumbling blocks...........a/ an interest in music rights ( Samsung, Cowon, Creative and APPLE [to a degree] couldn't give a toss)......b/ they are bogged down in red tape and buocracy (can't spell it) so even if the bright sparks attempted a coup they would be squashed by the baldies.

To date, Sony build quality and SQ has been getting them through but they could be in for major trouble............imagine OWNING one of the largest music libraries on the planet and having to remove it from the internet 'cos you can't get your s*** together;...................unforgivable really.

[ceres]

Nicely put guys. I concur as far as waste of potential is concerned. As far as I know Sony DAP market share is 2% in Europe. Big S has been ridiculously stubborn the last past yrs and has just recently awoken and acknowledged reality.

There is no reason on the planet why sony shouldn´t be the no1 manufacturer of daps at least as far as hardware is concerned. Still, they are not. When I look at the current lineup I strongly feel that this a legitimate but not very daring first try.

Sony can do much better than that and there is good reason to hold that against them. However, take note that in the small pocketable flash market they are extremely competitive outclassing Apple at the same price point (check the net for how nano3 falls apart after a few days´ use etc) It´s really the first time in a long time that this company is blip (small) on the radar. I expect major things in the comming months (before the next ipod) that will broaden the market presence of Sony in the DAP market. The big hurdle was SonicStage. I am very positive that Sony will be able to leverage its superior engineering skills in the fight for market share. There is no reason other than negligence why- let´s say Samsung - should have marginally better SNR or THD on its devices. Sony has shown that it understood why it underperformed. Now they have to prove that they can be the best around. BTW, my comments on touch tech etc. merely depicted my personal preferences. Of course, bigger capacity, gapless, psp style video should be included in a future walkman lineup for the crowd that wants it. If there is a market it should be catered to. No doubt. Every so often Sony pops up with a massive product. The last one I bought was the R1 camera. Currently there are the top line Bravias that are a cut above the competition. I am confident that the Japanese giant will regain its edge with the walkman brand.

Edited September 11, 2007 by ceres

[Ascariss]

some companies used to be on top, now others are as well, it occurs in all industries. I personally don't want every tom, dick and harry to own a sony mp3 player, let the sheep masses feed on the apples

[bogon07]

I am confident that the Japanese giant will regain its edge with the walkman brand.

Not any time soon though. Not unless there is a complete brain swap at the top level of the company.

They need to stop treating a large proportion of their market as 2nd class customers. Release their products world wide at the same time and relatively the same price with same range or model options. They product technically great players but !!!!!!!

[dura_]

I don't think it is the hardware that keeps Sony in single figures percentages of total DAP's sold. It is the mood that hangs in the internet.

Sony makes an imperfect DAP, every critic (most Americans online it sometimes seems) calls out Sony lost it, is stupid whatever.

Apple makes an ipod with batterylife of 6 hours and everyone loves it! Sure it is not perfect but it is better then the last gen.

Apple made ipods wityh horrible buildquality that were severely scratched after one week of use, no one cared!

Apple used propieraty AAC, everyone thinks it's great, Sony does something like that and it is all wrong.

It doesn't matter much what Sony does, as long as the critics think along the lines of 'as long as it not an ipod, it's inferior'.

Of course, blaming consuments instead of producents is not popular on the net, where we are all consuments, but in my opinion masterpieces as the NW-HD1, the S7xx & the A8xx deserved to be massively popular, and where instead neglected and demoloized because of Sonic Stage (which I basically use to fill the player and not much more, and works as it should).

Strangely, where the ipod fanclub likes to basdh Sony, other minor players like Cowon, iriver and Creative are largely left unharmed, while to my eyes their DAPs contain as many imperfections as the Sony's.

As for ipods, I think they sound horrible out of the headphonejacket, and since they are by far the most popular DAPs, the large public and I have differences unovercomable, and my money keeps on going to Sony, because of build- and soundquality, but I realise for the majority other things are important. Features and streetcred it seems...

[pata2001]

Yeah, AAC is so "propietary" that it was co-developed by Sony themselves, and used by Sony, SE, Nokia, Zune, etc. Good job on the facts.

[dura_]

the DRM in it I meant, sorry. When I build a big AAC-lib and bought a non-apple DAP the lib was useless. Same in SS/ATRAC of course, but there it suddenly is a big nono.

But my point is, whatever Sony does in the DAP-department, it will be approached negatively, whatever Apple does is seen as fantastic, so Sony can't possibly win because of the public opinion, no matter what they do.

(somewhat beside the point, I even meet lots of people who think apple is ingenious by combining organiser and telephone end DAP in one device, the iphone, and they act rather suprised when I tell them f.i. HTC and HP are making devices like this for years, the only difference being literally skindeep, the touch-interface. The large memory is great too though.).

Edited September 11, 2007 by dura

[aob9]

the DRM in it I meant, sorry. When I build a big AAC-lib and bought a non-apple DAP the lib was useless. Same in SS/ATRAC of course, but there it suddenly is a big nono.

But my point is, whatever Sony does in the DAP-department, it will be approached negatively, whatever Apple does is seen as fantastic, so Sony can't possibly win because of the public opinion, no matter what they do.

(somewhat beside the point, I even meet lots of people who think apple is ingenious by combining organiser and telephone end DAP in one device, the iphone, and they act rather suprised when I tell them f.i. HTC and HP are making devices like this for years, the only difference being literally skindeep, the touch-interface. The large memory is great too though.).

This is why I despise APPLE. On this month's 'STUFF' Magazine in Britain there was yet another review of the iphone. It was supposed to be a balanced review and was summarized like this.

Pros.......The sexiest phone ever made, period. Intuitive, beautiful, and fun user interface. Unsurpassed music and internet functionality.

Cons........AT&T’s EDGE data network horribly slow. Screen smudges easily. Quite expensive and requires 2-year service commitment.

If any other modern phone manufacturer released a phone with a horribly slow internet connection speed it would be slated beyond belief...notice however in the pro's section they have stated that it has Unsurpassed music and internet functionality. Even the reviewers cannot give fair, balanced comments when they get their hands on an APPLE product. Will anyone in the media have the courage to slate an APPLE product or at least be brutally honest about their limitations?

[Shinji Ikeda]

This is why I despise APPLE. On this month's 'STUFF' Magazine in Britain there was yet another review of the iphone. It was supposed to be a balanced review and was summarized like this.

Pros.......The sexiest phone ever made, period. Intuitive, beautiful, and fun user interface. Unsurpassed music and internet functionality.

Cons........AT&T’s EDGE data network horribly slow. Screen smudges easily. Quite expensive and requires 2-year service commitment.

If any other modern phone manufacturer released a phone with a horribly slow internet connection speed it would be slated beyond belief...notice however in the pro's section they have stated that it has Unsurpassed music and internet functionality. Even the reviewers cannot give fair, balanced comments when they get their hands on an APPLE prodcut. Will anyone in the media have the courage to slate an APPLE product or at least be brutally honest about their limitations?

Remember this Apple invented everything. If you search hard enough it is possible to find balanced reviews of Apples products. ComputerWorld wrote an article title It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft. However, Dan Frakes from MacWorld wrote a quick rebuttal. Mr. Frakes erroneously tried to sum it up with "You buy an iPhone because its touchscreen, its hardware, and its technology work together the way no other phone ever has." It could be agreed that the integration of the product is very unified. However, this was the same logic used for people to line-up for days to over pay for a cellphone that few has used.

Being honest or critical of the iPhone or any other Apple product would cause Apple fanatics to rain down on you. Dan Frakes states "I could spend time picking apart some of the other statements in the article". This is not how you build an argument. It is effective as a rebuttal, but ignores the fact that the original author was writing to a specific audience, which has a certain knowledge.

There is very little innovation in the iPhone. Apple is not Alexander Bell or Thomas Watson. However, Apple is an innovative company like many other is the DAP and cellphone industries.

please read: http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/265922.html

[navsimpson]

There is very little innovation in the iPhone. Apple is not Alexander Bell or Thomas Watson. However, Apple is an innovative company like many other is the DAP and cellphone industries.

please read: http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/265922.html

I would strongly disagree. The iPhone is innovative precisely because of the interface, not what the interface does. If one were to argue that is function that is paramount, then you could say that the existence of arrow keys on a keyboard means that the mouse wasn't really innovation. The iPhone, like the iPod before it, prioritises the experience of using the device as a fundamental tenet of its aesthetic and functional presence. I find my Walkman is perfect for my uses, but I never enjoy using it - it does nothing to make me feel more connected to my music collection; if anything, it throws up barriers through an ugly, clunky interface. Basically, if iPods just sounded better, there would be no reason to look at Sony products.

-Nav

[Old skool D]

Basically, if iPods just sounded better, there would be no reason to look at Sony products.

I agree. The Scary thing is that Apple could be so close to a better sound. If they could produce a graphic Equalizer on the Ipod, like the A800 series........... I think that Sony needs a massive restructing, at the top. If they then were willing to seek customer feedback, and research the market, like Apple did in the early nineties, all would not be lost. They have a loyal customer base, that I think they have taken for granted. But it's not all doom and gloom. Sony are still having awesome products. I think like a lot of companies that have been around for a long time, they need re-branding, and an overhaul.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Old skool D

[aob9]

Basically, if iPods just sounded better, there would be no reason to look at Sony products.

I agree. The Scary thing is that Apple could be so close to a better sound. If they could produce a graphic Equalizer on the Ipod, like the A800 series........... I think that Sony needs a massive restructing, at the top. If they then were willing to seek customer feedback, and research the market, like Apple did in the early nineties, all would not be lost. They have a loyal customer base, that I think they have taken for granted. But it's not all doom and gloom. Sony are still having awesome products. I think like a lot of companies that have been around for a long time, they need re-branding, and an overhaul.

Sony are so badly organized that one region says there will be firmware upgrade program and another says there won't be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shinji Ikeda]

I would strongly disagree. The iPhone is innovative precisely because of the interface, not what the interface does. If one were to argue that is function that is paramount, then you could say that the existence of arrow keys on a keyboard means that the mouse wasn't really innovation. The iPhone, like the iPod before it, prioritises the experience of using the device as a fundamental tenet of its aesthetic and functional presence. I find my Walkman is perfect for my uses, but I never enjoy using it - it does nothing to make me feel more connected to my music collection; if anything, it throws up barriers through an ugly, clunky interface. Basically, if iPods just sounded better, there would be no reason to look at Sony products.

-Nav

Unfortunately, I will have to strongly rebut your statement about the iPhone being innovative. The iPhone has some innovative features, but these features together does not make the iPhone an innovative product. It could be agree that Apple has implemented certain technologies better that other companies. Implementing technology better that others does not make a product innovative.

Apple has successfully, scaled down features found in OSX so that it would work with the iPhone. However, shifting features from one platform or device to another does not make a product innovative. Scaling software is nothing new.

Innovative means new. Nothing more, nothing less. If a manufacture makes a car with an innovative fuel system, that car does not automatically become innovative. There is no real scientific or other method to determine when some is innovative. Stating that it is innovate is a good method for people to purchase products.

It is hard to understand what is innovative about the interface. The touch screen, the GUI, the orientation sensor, what.

[ceres]

Sony are so badly organized that one region says there will be firmware upgrade program and another says there won't be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sure it´s like that in the dap business.

in other sectors, however, it makes sense to give the regional subdivisions more leeway.

[Swishrelic]

Back on topic...

All I want for Christmas is an NW-HD1 with a 32 gig slab of Flash memory instead of the HD. Oh and maybe a slightly better screen.

Audio only!

Thanks...

[Akai Kenshi]

Back on topic...

All I want for Christmas is an NW-HD1 with a 32 gig slab of Flash memory instead of the HD. Oh and maybe a slightly better screen.

Audio only!

Thanks...

And maybe hell will freeze over as well...

[thefanboy]

ipod touch is already being reported having issues, see here

I guess sony should release wide screen video walkman before september end.

[aob9]

Taken directly from a consumer review on 'macrumors' forum.....

''The sound from the Touch is definitely not nearly as robust as the sound from the 5G iPod. The Touch sounds thin and 'tinny'. Chords in the song don't reverberate, and there is a lack of depth in the audio. Additionally at 50% volume there is some noticeable background noise coming from the device which noticeably dissapears when the device is shut off with the power switch.

This is a big disappointment for me, as I expected a flash device to deliver sound quality at least as good as my 5G hard drive based iPod if not better. Sound from the Touch is not bad it actually sounds 'ok' but definitely not as good as previous generation iPods.''

This is my point entirely.........APPLE ipod is over-rated............. and getting worse. A little more of the truth from everyone please!!!!!!!!

Edited September 16, 2007 by aob9

[Old skool D]

Taken directly from a consumer review on 'macrumors' forum.....

''The sound from the Touch is definitely not nearly as robust as the sound from the 5G iPod. The Touch sounds thin and 'tinny'. Chords in the song don't reverberate, and there is a lack of depth in the audio. Additionally at 50% volume there is some noticeable background noise coming from the device which noticeably dissapears when the device is shut off with the power switch.

This is a big disappointment for me, as I expected a flash device to deliver sound quality at least as good as my 5G hard drive based iPod if not better. Sound from the Touch is not bad it actually sounds 'ok' but definitely not as good as previous generation iPods.''

This is my point entirely.........APPLE ipod is over-rated............. and getting worse. A little more of the truth from everyone please!!!!!!!!

One Man's truth is another Man's lie. Whilst I'm no big fan of the Ipods, many are, and are happy with them. Many diss Sony, but like myself, many are happyish with the company. The Truth in this matter is relative.

[ceres]

Hi, I have orderd an ipod touch for my mother as she wanted video and music on the road

and as her vision is not the best small button were a no no. I will be posting a review once I receive the device.

Apple has recently delivered the classic, a device that is purported to use the 1st gen shuffles output stage so bass should be a lot tighter than on the 5g. Conversely some people posted labwork stating that there are problems with the player that result in compromised soundstage and spatiality. Whatever the case may be once more apple is not unambiguously going in one direction. Neither is cowon for that matter. Labwork on the i7 is considerably worse than on the i6. Yet they get away with this bc reviewers are biased towards cowon as far as sq is concerned. What I am getting at is this: As tech advances I expect sq to advance with every generation. However, nasty surprises are lurking everywhere.

Edited September 16, 2007 by ceres

[Shinji Ikeda]

Taken directly from a consumer review on 'macrumors' forum.....

''The sound from the Touch is definitely not nearly as robust as the sound from the 5G iPod. The Touch sounds thin and 'tinny'. Chords in the song don't reverberate, and there is a lack of depth in the audio. Additionally at 50% volume there is some noticeable background noise coming from the device which noticeably dissapears when the device is shut off with the power switch.

This is a big disappointment for me, as I expected a flash device to deliver sound quality at least as good as my 5G hard drive based iPod if not better. Sound from the Touch is not bad it actually sounds 'ok' but definitely not as good as previous generation iPods.''

This is my point entirely.........APPLE ipod is over-rated............. and getting worse. A little more of the truth from everyone please!!!!!!!!

There have been more negative reviews for the iPod Touch, however most are glowingly positive. Apple has improved the interface across their entire iPod line, and has incorporated the album view feature on every model. It is cool how it works.

However, I have one main issue with the iPod interface. With most DAP when you reach an end of a list, you return to the beginning. The iPod interface does not allow this at all. It makes me think that apple designed the functionality based on 8-track tapes. That is my opinion.

My advice is to do some research on the pros and cons of your new media player. This include price, features, compatibility and other issue that are important to you. Then make your purchase. The iPod may be the best of John-Q public, but it is not the best.

My next computer should have between 80 and 120 GB of hard-drive space, so it is correct to assume that the 160 GB iPod is definitely over kill.

aob, I would agree that the iPod is over-rated, however they do provide a entrancing experience. I also watched the getting to know iPod touch video. The first thought was cult. Anyways, thanks for the heads up.

[aob9]

aob, I would agree that the iPod is over-rated, however they do provide a entrancing experience. I also watched the getting to know iPod touch video. The first thought was cult. Anyways, thanks for the heads up.

I suppose I forget to take into consideration that whilst SQ is the over-riding feature for me this may not be the case for everyone else. In fact what I actually need to realize is that SQ is one single feature of a DAP. In the vast majority of cases people are probably happy with a player with 'good' SQ and a lot of street cred.

I am a self confessed technology addict which makes me a little too critical to give a balanced opinion really. I look forward to ceres review of the itouch as he appears to be balanced in his opinions.

CERES, If you do this review will you start a new thread so I don't miss it.PLEASE.

Now, where was I, Oh yeah, Isn't APPLE TV CRAP.................................Sorry.

[ceres]

One Man's truth is another Man's lie. Whilst I'm no big fan of the Ipods, many are, and are happy with them. Many diss Sony, but like myself, many are happyish with the company. The Truth in this matter is relative.

I will start a new thread, sure.

Mr. Ikeda has a very good point. Perceived sq is a concern but not the prime concern for many. Let´s face it. Sony´s offerings have been dysfunctional in the past yrs.

I couldn´t get my A3000 to work a few yrs. ago and had to return it to the store. The A1000 went for cheap (100 Euros on sale!!!) but Nano1 totally redefined the market and ultimately led to the demise of the mini hdd market. Why should I keep the A1000 and put up with Sonic 3.2? Today people ask the same question. While Sony hardware has been very competitive in the flash market the past few months all efforts were hampered by Sonic.

You can´t really stress enough how important the current open Walkman step is.