Webmaster Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Sony moving to support MP3!? Lee, Ferreira, and Patel point out a CNET article stating that Sony is contemplating native MP3 support for their portable music players. Don't leave Minidisc out of your enlightenment Sony! http://news.com.com/Sony+to+support+MP3/21...l?tag=nefd.lede http://www.engadget.com/entry/4192222676710645/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwakrz Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I am going to lay bets that sony does not allow customers to upgrade the items they currently own to support MP3 if they do. I can see a lot of really annoyed Hi-MD owners if $ony release a new Hi-MD with MP3 support in 2 months time & the only difference is the firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmaster Posted September 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I am going to lay bets that sony does not allow customers to upgrade the items they currently own to support MP3 if they do. I can see a lot of really annoyed Hi-MD owners if $ony release a new Hi-MD with MP3 support in 2 months time & the only difference is the firmware.This would be a tiny number compared to the new Hi-MD customers Sony would garner by doing to Minidisc what's been painfully obvious for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 ahahah! I was already an annoyed Hi-MD owner even before reading these news! oh damn it... (better to send my nh700 back to the store) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Sure. it's convenient, but since the source of my music is almost exclusively non-MP3, I just couldn't care less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrius Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I think that Sony would prefer supporting MP3 than going the Itunes way, seeing how they have a dislike for all things Mac. Though sometimes I wonder if Sony Execs wear their shoes on their hands and watches on their feet. If that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spare Tire Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 A software upgrade of the MD? Running mp3 decoding in software? Would kill my batteries and reduce the memory buffer, that'd suck ass. Rather wait till they get a new MD out that has an native support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valder Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Since the only portable music players I have are a 20th anniversary walkman, a D-EJ955 CD player and my Minidisc players I just converted all my CDs into Atrac and said the hell with MP3. Plus it just sounds like it is for flash players. Valder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeriyn Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Oooh... This is good news. I honestly hope it pans out! I would so buy a Hi-MD unit if it had native support of MP3. (Wishing for native AAC support is futile, unfortunately.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph23 Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 from what ive read they are going to offer software upgrades... ive a feeling that this will only apply to the network walkmans and not hi-md players I am going to lay bets that sony does not allow customers to upgrade the items they currently own to support MP3 if they do. I can see a lot of really annoyed Hi-MD owners if $ony release a new Hi-MD with MP3 support in 2 months time & the only difference is the firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 "Sony not only plans to release new devices; it is working to make available software that will let owners of current models upgrade their devices to add native MP3 support, European sources said." -> probably we're gonna have another version of sonic stage that hides the conversion process from the user! simulating the transfer process... ahahah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alieninhead Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I'll be very surprised if their CD players aren't next. If the CD players don't undergo conversion next, it'll be their Minidisc players since they're the next capacity up from a flash player... Firmware upgradeable? It'd be nice, but probably a pipe dream. Software upgradeable? Foolish. ~a.i.h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumz Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Yeah this is nice to hear and all, but we're still waiting for an official wav converter from Sony (fortunately the enthusiasts have MarC's great work to help out with that), how much longer will it take them to come up with firmware for any type of Sony portable?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meryl Arbing Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 If I wanted to buy an MP3 player there are hundreds out there produced by every 2-bit electronics knock-off shop in the world. I don't anticipate downloading any MP3 tracks so this announcement is a non-event as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyjazz Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Firmware for dummies....If there were a firmware update for NetMD and/or Hi-MD, how would the end user implement it? I'm assuming a firmware update is something that will change settings in the hardware's cpu (via usb?). I assume this would also be coupled with a sonicstage patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Firmware for dummies....If there were a firmware update for NetMD and/or Hi-MD, how would the end user implement it? I'm assuming a firmware update is something that will change settings in the hardware's cpu (via usb?). I assume this would also be coupled with a sonicstage patch.Firmware update via USB is no miracle. It is done with PDAs, it is done with mobile phones and my DVD-Writer has got new firmware as well. So, why not doing it with MD-recorders and Harddisk-mediaplayers as well. And the usual way to do that is to connect the device, start a program, which contains the programming tool and the firmware itself. 2 minutes later, the software orders the user to disconnect and reconnect the device - thats it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davew Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 yeah that's somthing i've wondered. Just how would sony go about updating the firmware in a NetMD or HiMD device?? They don't seem to mention firmware upgradable in the blurb, as some MP3 players do. hmm lots of things do it I agree though, you would assume sony would make it possible..... or maybe you wouldnt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant1345 Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 whoo this is very intersting if sony does let this go to hi-md aswell i hope for two things and they are that i do not have to exchange my model im sure this would piss off alot of theyre customers, and i hope that we can also have them decode atrac still i dont want that to change but an mp3 decoder would be nice to add to my player i would still ue atrac alot though i love the format just hate the restrictions.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Welcome to the forums, davew. :happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minidisc3 Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 A software upgrade of the MD? Running mp3 decoding in software? Would kill my batteries and reduce the memory buffer, that'd suck ass.This is so right and ATRAC3plus 256 is really good. I haven't had a walkman that sounded so good as my new Sony for a long time. The battery life is just outstanding! Come on guys, is this about music or about who beats who in transfer times? Once the music is on the disc or memory of the walkman, does it really matter what the codec is? MP3 or ATRAC3plus? As long as the sound is just perfect and the battery lasts long. Hi-MD or Sony HDD walkman has both! Do you really think Sony will allow you to share music just like that using Sony branded equipment? Even when they play native MP3, I guess they won't allow you to. Just have a look at for instance the Philips HDD MP3 players; you still need dedicated software to transfer MP3 onto those and you won't be able to transfer it back into any PC. I've read the manual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblin Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 about ahreing music useing sony branded equipment: i currently have a sony cd burner and it does not seem to have hardwired ability to stop the user from burning copyright tagged audio cds (nero reminds of of it but does not stop me either). and i could allways fill up a hi-md with mp3s(rember the fat filesystem?), i just cant listen to them while on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.e.wilson Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Two comments: Has Sony ever released a minidisc player with upgradable firmware? I've not heard of one. To upgrade the firmware (via USB or by file on the minidisc) there is some extra silicon required (a high-level but dumb controller to handle the EEPROM programming, and an EEPROM instead of a ROM). I doubt any recorder sold is upgradable. I'd bet money that the .mp3 files must be wrapped in an OpenMG container to keep rights management intact. I can't see Sony holding so tight to DRM just to abandon it now. Instead of transcoding the .mp3 to ATRAC, the PC could quickly encode the.mp3 into the .omg container and transfer it to the player. *EEPROM: Electronically Erasable, Programmable Read-Only Memeory *Media Containers: a file-based method of storing streaming media for playback. ATRAC and mp3 are codecs, which compress a digital media stream into a more compact format. Containers, like .omg and .avi, hold the compressed stream in such a way that the data can be read out of the file in an organized way, and provides for skipping to specific points of the playback. And in omg's case, provide for decrypting the encrypted streams during playback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumz Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 minidisc3-- There is a reason that I can think of that would make the addition of mp3 to Hi-MD important to even an non-mp3 user, at least from my perspective. That is that it could possibly boost Hi-MD sales and solidify it as a format. You may not listen to mp3s, but I'm sure a lot of Rio Karma owners only listen to FLAC and OGG, even though it can play mp3s. The point is that it makes it more attractive to people who have some mp3s that they don't have on CD, or who have massive mp3 collections that they don't have time to re-rip to atrac and would rather not transcode to atrac. I still have a hard time imagining Hi-MD supporting mp3 playback just because of the nature of Hi-MD, but I suppose anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[StrangeByte] Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 I'd bet money that the .mp3 files must be wrapped in an OpenMG container to keep rights management intact. I can't see Sony holding so tight to DRM just to abandon it now. Instead of transcoding the .mp3 to ATRAC, the PC could quickly encode the.mp3 into the .omg container and transfer it to the player. :laugh: That was just my first thought too.... Regarding the firmware upgrades... i've heard somewhere in this forums that firmware upgrades over usb are possible but aren't executed (i think the thread was about netmd - however, himd must be the same) But that is not the problem (if you want to upgrade an old player to mp3 support).... the atrac[3[plus]] decoder is hardwired meaning no software upgrade possible... running a software decoder would be possible, assuming the cpu of the unit is fast enough (but i don't think so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZhivago Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Yeah,guess this is good news.:whatever: Though,I wish Sony had announced update to its ATRAC3+ codec. :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 :laugh: :laugh: reading this topic i had a "Sony thinking" here it goes... probably this will show up in some press-conference in the future: "To add the possibility of mp3 playback in Hi-MD devices, our wonderful sonicstage software will provide playing back and upload capabilities of mp3 files. These mp3 files will be stored in the Hi-MD disc, but they will ONLY play via sonicstage. For standalone playing the user will still have to convert everything to our ATRAC3Plus codec...". This is a software update! and it adds the mp3 playing back to Hi-MD! :laugh: :laugh: THIS WOULD BE AWESOME! :wacky: :wacky: :ohmy: :wink: I can't wait to see something like this! :grin: :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davew Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 things to remember: . Sony own the rights to various artists, they are not going to be rushing to open all the doors. . Sony are in competition with Apple etc, and need to provide users with some freedom or will lose them. I think a good solution for Sony and MD users would be for Sony to release some decent sofware (ie, not SonicStage!) for turning MP3s etc into OMG quickly and efficiently, AND to provide conversion for self recorded stuff off MDs into WAV and MP3. I know they are "considering" a converter, but they are VERY vague about the whole thing when asked about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everso Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Well I'm going to hold off getting a hi-md player. I can't see them giving out free upgrades - not the Sony way. I'll be delighted if they do allow me to upgrade my 707, just don't think they will. The various comments about "it's all about playing" are true however I can see several advantages with mp3 support No need to re-encode (not the be all but a point non the less) Sonic stage is very fussy. Many of my mp3s fail and I have to convert them to wav and then put them through sonic state (major pain) Audio books. These are typically encoded at a low rate because that’s all they need. When I put them through SS the ATRAC file is typically 4-10 times the size of the mp3 because of the limited sample rates available. I know this is helped by Hi-MD but not everyone has Hi-MD. Finally – it’s an mp3 player. That’s going to make it easier to sell and that’s got to be good for the minidisk market. I have explained to a number of people about how wonderful the player is only to have them decide against when they hear about the re-encoding required. If done right it means that you can just drag and drop an mp3 without any extra software. This means people can use tem at work – internet cafes and so on. If done right that is. I can see these wiping out flash players overnight (except the lower capacity ones). The HDD player may be a tougher nut to crack but it will allow MD to give them a run for it’s money. Let’s see what happens. Everso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudster Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 From my experience sony are OK at dishing out upgrades. I have a sony DVD writer, and there have been loads of firmware upgrades for it, so I shouldn't see HI-MD being any different. BUT Sony's firmware upgrades come with a warning, DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmix Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 This would be great!! I just wonder if SONY has jumped to MP3 why not do it completely to AAC and WMA, theese are very popular too and many MP3 players support theese formats too. (Well at least WMA. AAC is catching up) I think it would be a little awkward to say the player supports only ATRAC and MP3 while the other ones from competition support more than just MP3. AAC and WMA support copyright restrictions so my thought is if SONY's supporting a non-restritive codec why not also support codecs that are, I mean, if SONY has been so worried about copyright, well, theese codecs run by their rules too. But anyway this is great news and if it goes to Hi-MD I hope will help to promote MD format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakunou Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Sony's firmwares for DVD+-RW drives lack in quality. Why would their Hi-MD upgrades be any better? One example out of many: DRU-510A series of drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant1345 Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 okay if sony does do this a big reason could be that people feel more comfortable seeing a format that is as popular as mp3 what looks better to you when your lookin at porable player A Sony Atrac3 3+ player oh a Sony Mp3 player people would look at that and say wth is atrac and then go well i know what mp3 is so ill get that sony is slowley losing costomers to the formats that they understand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhangraman Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 AFAIK, none of the Walkman products can be upgraded via firmware. I'm not even sure if the NW-HD1 supports firmware upgrades. I know that VAIO Pocket does (and AFAIK this plays back MP3's already), but this was developed by a different department. I'd say if Sony do release MP3-native-supporting portables, it's a fair bet that you'll have to ditch whatever you own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Sony's firmwares for DVD+-RW drives lack in quality. Why would their Hi-MD upgrades be any better? One example out of many: DRU-510A series of drives.This is true, firmware updates for their optical drives are often 'iffy', but it is a different division though. However I really don't think that Sony's current portables would allow for users upgrading the firmware (although there may be an outside chance that the current Hi-MD crop may do). Just imagine if Sony did release firmware upgrades for their portables, forums like this will fill up with people who have screwed up their firmware upgrade by unplugging their portable at the wrong time or using hacked firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyther Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 ^ Oh boy. Spare me the thought, please. :happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxc Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 I do remember a screen capture of a HD1 when it was being demosntrated at release showing a "firmware upgrade" directory in windows explorer when the HD1 was connected to the PC. I can't remember where that photo is, but it definitely existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgeen4242 Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 I do remember a screen capture of a HD1 when it was being demosntrated at release showing a "firmware upgrade" directory in windows explorer when the HD1 was connected to the PC. I can't remember where that photo is, but it definitely existed.That's very interesting. Correct me if I am wrong (I'm changing th esubject a but here) but doesn't the DSP in (at least the HiMD players, and maybe the NetMD) support MP3 decoding in hardware, but it just not enabled with the current firmware? If that is the case, and firmware upgrades are possible, it suprises me no one has tried to hack it yet. There are people out there that will try and hack almost anything, yet I haven't seen much indication of a MD hacking community. From another point of view, I can see Sony opening up the MDs to PLAY mp3s, but keep the curretn ATRAC DRM for anything recorded by a MD unit. Seems like a fair balance, as you stil couldn't use the MD to create pirated music, which is presumably Sony's aim. Then again, it's Sony, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taaronk Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Hey guys, I don't want to sound negative, but remeber how excited we all were when they [sony] announced hi-md. Remember how as the date for relsese got closer and closer, the features got weaker and weaker? And then the date got pushed back over 5 MONTHS!!! Don't get me wrong, I love my nh700 (japanese tourist edition) but we must remeber....we are dealing with sony here. They are out to make a buck and they suggar coat EVERYTHING to sound so much better than it is. Firmware won't fix this. It would most definately have to be a hardware situation. I do agree that the mp3 format support would be a stupendous boost to the md economy, however. My thought wanders back to the Hi-MD video concept i heard about not too long ago. I read about the possibility of 4.7 GB MDs. Could mp3 support be incorporated for this purpose, as mp3 is just the 3rd layer of DVD? I'd love to see MD-DVD. I hate scratches on my disc. MD would be so perfect.....sorry, i digress. Any way you slice it and no matter how hyped up we get, I don't think we can count on sony to make it as easy and useful as we all could dream it to be. I like the point about the wav converter. I've yet to figure out how to upload to sonic stage 2 (yes, i should read the manual, but c'mon sony, what a crapy interface). I'm getting a bit long winded with my rant. In summary: Don't hold your breath. Sony will continue to rape its loyal clientel and we'll just keep coming back for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Firmware won't fix this. It would most definately have to be a hardware situation.Yes and no. Key is, is the program memory flash programmable or is it mask programmed? If it is flash programmable and has enough free space available, MP3 recording and playback can be added easily. The DSP is powerful enough. Even old Atrac4 chips would be able to do that, if their program memory could be changed. I'd love to see MD-DVD. I hate scratches on my disc.That DVDs don't have a caddy/cartridge has a simple reason: The hollywood fat cats are so greedy, that they don't even want to spend the 20 cent for a case around the disc. Any way you slice it and no matter how hyped up we get, I don't think we can count on sony to make it as easy and useful as we all could dream it to be.Not Sony, I count here on companies like Tascam and HHB, but that will possibly take another year. In summary: Don't hold your breath. Sony will continue to rape its loyal clientel and we'll just keep coming back for more There are too many alternatives, Sony has to be careful about its steps to not push their customers away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 My cousin has an iRiver, and he was showing me yesterday how good their customer support was. Every month or so, iRiver would come out with updated firmware for all devices. Customers could write in and say that they had a glitch, and some even wrote in, to have games made for the remote! It would be great if Sony did this kind of update for their software. :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts