New Himd - Ridiculous Rumours From Japan

[Wundoo]

Latest rumours doing the rounds in Japan are

1. An MD camera will be released this year.

2. An MD unit that takes two discs will also be released.

3. Totally new software will be available to replace SonicStage.

4. A new super HiMD (non backward compatible) of 5Gb capacity.

As I said these are just rumours and probably unreliable. My main point is - Are we going to be disappointed when we finally get the details? In some ways I wish I was told nothing until the new units became available.

[xispe]

a unit that takes two disks is something totally stupid...

[Michael1980]

I believe we already know the model numbers on the next generation. (Those that have appeared in the shop posted somewhere). Just by looking at the letters it is easy to speculate what the features will bring.

Offcourse the numbers could be total lie.

I hope the D does not stand for Dual, but rather for Display or Digital Upload

[Bananatree]

A HiMD camera has been mocked up before, so we expect one is on the horizon.

5gb would be cool, but I'm not sure Sony is ready to ditch all the old MD formats, although this would explain why Sharp and all the other MD makers have yet to show any signs of life in the HiMD arena.

[bland10000]

so when is an official announcement likely? Any trade shows scheduled soon?

[sxc]

so when is an official announcement likely?  Any trade shows scheduled soon?

←

Maybe CEBIT in Germany which is in March I think.

[bland10000]

looking forward to it happening...according to the CeBIT homepage, the trade show will start Thursday, March 10th.

[Fast Eddie]

4. A new super HiMD (non backward compatible) of 5Gb capacity.

Do you think this is true?

[Justin42]

If Sony introduced a new HiMD format ALREADY, especially an entirely incompatible one, I think they'd piss a lot of people off who already bought into HiMD. While more storage is always good, basically throwing away current HiMD (or having 2 incompatible HiMD standards out at once) would probably be the death of the format (due to concern over whether or not anything would EVER stay compatible).. unless they got EVERYTHING else right -- native MP3, no DRM, etc.

Of course, this may be entirely untrue, or it may not be quite the way it is being presented here.

And given Sony's apparent lack of care/understanding/desire about HiMD, it's quite likely they WILL ditch the early adopters.

[AgentK7]

Do you think this is true?

←

The 5gb capacity might have some truth in it. Sony could be using Blu-Ray tech in these new MD devices. If a 5 inch Blu-Ray disc can hold 23 gigs, a smaller MD/Blu Ray hybrid size disc could surely hold 5 gigs.

The only cost effective way of doing this would be to throw out HI-MD and MD compatibility. Otherwise these players will be super expensive (they probably would be anyway).

A 5 gig SUPER Hi-MD unit would definitely be able to compete with the likes of the ipod mini, especially when marketing could point out changing discs, something you can't do on a mini...(not to mention that hopefully it'll record etc).

edit: actually super expensive and competing with the ipod mini would be contradictory. Who knows...I'd def pay US$249 for a 5 gig MD recorder, even if it's a new format....

Edited February 15, 2005 by AgentK7

[Embio]

Latest rumours doing the rounds in Japan are

1. An MD camera will be released this year.

2. An MD unit that takes two discs will also be released.

3. Totally new software will be available to replace SonicStage.

4. A new super HiMD (non backward compatible) of 5Gb capacity.

As I said these are just rumours and probably unreliable. My main point is - Are we going to be disappointed when we finally get the details? In some ways I wish I was told nothing until the new units became available.

←

1, Is all but confirmed

2, I read somewhere (minidiscT i think) that the top level MD unit is no longer the thinnest - that would confirm this. Sony is trying to compete with 20gig HDD units, so this would make sense (sony-sense that is)

3, Well we knew that one anyways.

4, I also read somewhere that 5gig discs had been developed by sharp - entirely possible. Also, I read that as the DISC not being backword compatible. Like the 1gig discs at the moment.

just my 2 peneth worth

[ROMBUSTERS]

The 5gb capacity might have some truth in it.  Sony could be using Blu-Ray tech in these new MD devices.  If a 5 inch Blu-Ray disc can hold 23 gigs, a smaller MD/Blu Ray hybrid size disc could surely hold 5 gigs.

The only cost effective way of doing this would be to throw out HI-MD and MD compatibility.  Otherwise these players will be super expensive (they probably would be anyway).

A 5 gig SUPER Hi-MD unit would definitely be able to compete with the likes of the ipod mini, especially when marketing could point out changing discs, something you can't do on a mini...(not to mention that hopefully it'll record etc).

edit: actually super expensive and competing with the ipod mini would be contradictory.  Who knows...I'd def pay US$249 for a 5 gig MD recorder, even if it's a new format....

←

its impossible to have both MO and Blu-ray compatibilities at once in a MD unit. Well not *impossible* but more than likely never will happen.

-MDs use Red Laser, Blu-ray uses blue (the only way the big blu-ray players are backwards compatible is because they contain a second laser).

-MO reads information by changes in magnetic fields, blu-ray reads pits and lands

-Blu-ray is really friggin expensive

-Blu-ray isnt even released in home theaters in NA yet.

-basically cost and size is a huge limiter

[deafplayer]

i think this has been discussed here before... what is the max theoretical capacity of current Hi-MD units?

is anyone sure they are capable of using higher capacity media at all?

i think i remember 2 gigs coming up before....

edit:

I'd really like to see higher bitrate compressed recordings.... somewhere between HI-SP and PCM

im not sure how practical that would be since i dont know the inner details of compression and psychoacoustics.... but all the compressed formats top out at close to MP3's 320kb/s

i wouldn't assume that compression 'wouldn't be worth it' mathematically above that rate simply because its not around... since most people consider that the equivalent of CD quality anyway it wouldn't be worth it to them

HI-SP is about 1:5 right?

a 1:3 or 1:2 compression ratio would be interesting..... 180 minutes on a Hi-MD with quality somewhere between HI-SP and PCM...

or simply bring back mono recording, if only for PCM, which i imagine keeps L and R chanels more sperate than ATRAC, making the data savings from recording in mono more significant

Edited February 15, 2005 by deafplayer

[ROMBUSTERS]

i think this has been discussed here before... what is the max theoretical capacity of current Hi-MD units?

is anyone sure they are capable of using higher capacity media at all?

i think i remember 2 gigs coming up before....

←

yes supposidly its upwards of 2GB so 2 might not even be the maximum. but who knows 1GB could be the maximum and we could be holding on to threads of idiocy

[AgentK7]

its impossible to have both MO and Blu-ray compatibilities at once in a MD unit. Well not *impossible* but more than likely never will happen.

-MDs use Red Laser, Blu-ray uses blue (the only way the big blu-ray players are backwards compatible is because they contain a second laser).

-MO reads information by changes in magnetic fields, blu-ray reads pits and lands

-Blu-ray is really friggin expensive

-Blu-ray isnt even released in home theaters in NA yet.

-basically cost and size is a huge limiter

←

Oh yeah, that's why I said backwards compatibility would be jettisoned. I know Sony has developed hybrid pickups for blu-ray/standard DVD (Blue Laser/Red Laser) but on a minidisc unit this would be completely impractical.

I was using Blu-Ray as a general concept for a new approach to MD, not to say the technology will be identical to the previously announced next generation movie format (I hope HD DVD dies in an excruciating fashion). 5 gigs would be a perfect amount to strive for because that seems to be the sweet spot on the market right now.

The Playstation Portable discs UMD format seem to use a similar physical format to DVD (1.8 GB capacity would indicate this). Is there any relation to the UMD format to MD?

I think introducing a huge leap forward in size format like a 5 gig discs makes more sense than a player that can play two discs. That has clunky and fragile written all over it. All I can envision is the old laserdisc players that had a motor in the back to move the disc reader from one side to the other.

(general rant) What's the difference between 1 gig and 2 gigs when you can swap discs in 3 seconds anyway?

[fredpb]

its impossible to have both MO and Blu-ray compatibilities at once in a MD unit. Well not *impossible* but more than likely never will happen.

-MDs use Red Laser, Blu-ray uses blue (the only way the big blu-ray players are backwards compatible is because they contain a second laser).

-MO reads information by changes in magnetic fields, blu-ray reads pits and lands

-Blu-ray is really friggin expensive

-Blu-ray isnt even released in home theaters in NA yet.

-basically cost and size is a huge limiter

←

I thought MO was magnetic and optical in RECORDING, but optical in playback?

[ROMBUSTERS]

it is but the way its written (and the distance its written from in relation to the laser) would make it a engineering maricle if they could pull it off. In order to take advantage of Blu-rays higher density the data would need to be stored closer to the disc surface blah blah blah, do some research on blu-ray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray and it'll explain more. basicaly they would need to include an extra optical head *just* for the parts of the disc that were in blu-ray mode. not practicle at all

[Christopher]

Whom are stating these rumors in Japan?

[aeriyn]

The problem with blu-ray or even conventional DVD-type recording, or even conventional CD-R type recording in a portable is power. CD and DVD writers with red lasers eat up gobs and gobs of power; Blu-Ray is even more power hungry. Any portable recorder with these kind of technologies would likely require you to carry around a small car battery...

While they are faster and technically better technologies than magneto-optical, MO systems still win out on minimal power consumption.

I thought MO was magnetic and optical in RECORDING, but optical in playback?

←

It is. But the marketability for a portable combination MO/Blu-Ray drive would be nil even if the engineering hurdles could be overcome practically.

[Happy Hopping]

Latest rumours doing the rounds in Japan are

1. An MD camera will be released this year.

2. An MD unit that takes two discs will also be released.

3. Totally new software will be available to replace SonicStage.

4. A new super HiMD (non backward compatible) of 5Gb capacity.

As I said these are just rumours and probably unreliable. My main point is - Are we going to be disappointed when we finally get the details? In some ways I wish I was told nothing until the new units became available.

←

1. That I can believe.

2. useless

4. Only good for new customer. I have 47 old MD, many songs are no longer able to duplicate, so I am stuck w/ a HiMD that support the old format.

[indeego]

Maybe CEBIT in Germany which is in March I think.

←

yes, 10 - 16 march in hannover .. it looks like I´ll be there to look for new products .. taking my digicam with me

[dex Otaku]

-MO reads information by changes in magnetic fields, blu-ray reads pits and lands

←

MO writes information by using modulated magnetic fields and constant laser power. The MO layer of the disc records fluctuations in the magnetic field from the record head as darker and lighter patches, which resemble pits and lands to the optical read mech.

  i think this has been discussed here before... what is the max theoretical capacity of current Hi-MD units?

4.7GB according to documents found in http://www.minidisc.org 's Research section. Don't recall what optical wavelength [what colour laser] this used, though.

[ROMBUSTERS]

MO writes information by using modulated magnetic fields and constant laser power.  The MO layer of the disc records fluctuations in the magnetic field from the record head as darker and lighter patches, which resemble pits and lands to the optical read mech. 

←

i was reading the FAQ on the main site for MD and it said that as the laser passed through a changed magnetic field it is altered and upon reflection reads back different information.

Also food for thought: would a blu laser due to its smaller wavelength even be affected by a magnetic flux as a larger red laser? enough to read? who knows

[jadeclaw]

Also food for thought: would a blu laser due to its smaller wavelength even be affected by a magnetic flux as a larger red laser? enough to read? who knows

←

Yes, it will. However, you will need a different chemical makeup of the recording layer for the whole thing to work.

The physical process as such is independent of the wave length, that means,

if you use the right combination of materials for the recording layer and a suitable laser,

you could theoretically create a 20 or 40GByte MD.

But using a x-ray-laser in a portable unit is unthinkable - unless you want to be sterilised while listening to your favourite tunes...

[Embio]

But using a x-ray-laser in a portable unit is unthinkable - unless you want to be sterilised while listening to your favourite tunes...

←

"we'll let marketting worry about that!"

[hobgoblin]

or you could package the whole thing in lead. marketing only have to strech the definition of portable then

hmm, given the power levels we are talking about, how much lead would one need to stop the laser?

[aeriyn]

Okay, this thread has just gotten entirely too silly.

[Fat Tires]

Well, the title DOES include the word ridiculous in it...

[ROMBUSTERS]

Well, the title DOES include the word ridiculous in it...

←

now all we need a a big clown named Ronald who is of Scottish decent who can market MD via a happy meal

[D-EJ915]

4.7GB according to documents found in http://www.minidisc.org 's Research section.  Don't recall what optical wavelength [what colour laser] this used, though.

←

Imagine the capacity if they used the disc holography with Supreme-Portable-MD units?

[Breepee2]

MZ-RH10

Features:

• HI-MD WALKMAN with large Organic EL Display

• MP3 / Atrac3plus direct playback

• Transfer up to 45 CD’s onto a 1GB HI-MD disc (with ATRAC compression)

• SonicStage for easy music management and unlimited check outs of your favourite tracks

• Supports all popular digital audio compression formats: ATRAC / MP3 / WMA / WAV

• New type remote control

• Record from multiple source: USB-in / Mic-in / Analogue-in / Digital-in

• Extreme fast music transfer from and to PC: 1 CD in less than 40 seconds

• Capable to store audio, video and data files on your HI-MD disc (Word, Powerpoint, ATRAC, MP3, JPEG, MPEG, etc)

• Incl. Charging stand, AC Power Adpater

• Long battery life of 32 hours

• G-PROTECTION Jog Proof

MZ-RH910

Features:

• HI-MD WALKMAN with large 5 line LCD display

• MP3 / Atrac3plus direct playback

• Transfer up to 45 CD’s onto a 1GB HI-MD disc (with ATRAC compression)

• SonicStage for easy music management and unlimited check outs of your favourite tracks

• Supports all popular digital audio compression formats: ATRAC / MP3 / WMA / WAV

• New type remote control

• Record from multiple source: USB-in / Mic-in / Analogue-in / Digital-in

• Extreme fast music transfer from and to PC: 1 CD in less than 40 seconds

• Capable to store audio, video and data files on your HI-MD disc (Word, Powerpoint, ATRAC, MP3, JPEG, MPEG, etc)

• Incl. Rechargeable batt., Charging stand, AC Power Adpater

• Long battery life of 25 hours

• G-PROTECTION Jog Proof

MZ-RH710

Features:

• HI-MD WALKMAN with 3 line LCD display

• MP3 / Atrac3plus direct playback

• Transfer up to 45 CD’s onto a 1GB HI-MD disc (with ATRAC3plus compression)

• SonicStage for easy music management and unlimited check outs of your favourite tracks

• Supports all popular digital audio compression formats: ATRAC / MP3 / WMA / WAV

• New basic remote control

• Record from multiple source: USB-in / Analogue-in / Digital-in

• Extreme fast music transfer from and to PC: 1 CD in less than 40 seconds

• Capable to store audio, video and data files on your HI-MD disc (Word, Powerpoint, ATRAC, MP3, JPEG, MPEG, etc)

• Long battery life of 25 hours

• G-PROTECTION Jog Proof

[jadeclaw]

That looks much better than the 1st. generation units.

The OL-display looks way cool.

Looks like, I have to invest again...

[Embio]

WOW! well, they look beautiful, but I would need to know battery lifes/dimensions before buying one. Doesn't look like the revelation we were expecting

[jadeclaw]

MDFreak posted this from a dutch supplier on MDCenter.nl:

Ik heb net de nieuwe Sony prijslijst voor me liggen.

Er komen nieuwe modellen uit; de Mz-Rh10 (advies prijs 299 euro), Mz-Rh910

(advies prijs 249 euro), Mz-Rh710 advies prijs 199 euro)

Translation:

Suggested retail prices

MZ-RH10: 299 Euro

MZ-RH910: 249 Euro

MZ-RH710: 199 Euro.

[Breepee2]

I've seen the MZDH10P also in some release list. Don't know anything about it though. Anyone?

The RH10 is going to get me off my MT190. Finally MP3-playback and a supersexy Oled display and not so expensive. Sony, I think you might be seeing the light!

Edited February 17, 2005 by Breepee2

[Embio]

MDFreak posted this from a dutch supplier on MDCenter.nl:

Translation:

Suggested retail prices

MZ-RH10: 299 Euro

MZ-RH910: 249 Euro

MZ-RH710: 199 Euro.

←

will that be £199 or £299 for the top model then?

[Michael1980]

Can't wait to see DH10P

PS. Has anyone noticed the demise of the R*9** series, the last two look a bit weird.

Edited February 17, 2005 by Michael1980

[Breepee2]

will that be £199 or £299 for the top model then?

←

Do something wild and go check google for the exchange rate.

[Michael1980]

It is not just about the exchange rate.

Random guess it will be between £249.99 and £279.99 lol.

[Breepee2]

It is not just about the exchange rate.

Random guess it will be between £249.99 and £279.99 lol.

←

Typically the UK is on par or cheaper than The Netherlands. So I think 200 pounds is more realistic, provided these prices will be actual retail prices, and not, as steenweg.nl says (MDfreak's source), recommended retail prices.

Edited February 17, 2005 by Breepee2