SonicStage 3.2, Initial Impressions

[doclloyd]

FYI, Sony USA has released SS 3.2 to the masses. Same stuff that we already know about, but for those who wanted to wait until the US release was here...

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-download...,7,16&mdl=NWHD3

[Guxt]

FYI, Sony USA has released SS 3.2 to the masses. Same stuff that we already know about, but for those who wanted to wait until the US release was here...

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-download...,7,16&mdl=NWHD3

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I just tried to install. The process seemed to be good but now...Sonicstage has gone!!!

What can I do??

[samplehunter]

Have you tried this?

Michael

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i have just tried but unfortunately this allows me not to batch-convert (which is faster than convert>wait for unit>transfer>wait for unit>convert>...) and then transfer a bunch of files. if i do batch convert before a transfer, the oma files will remain on disk. then i have to right click every file, go to properties, select the atrac file and press the delete button - for EVERY f**ing single file.

The old menu was much more intelligent here. It was good, so why did they remove this? instead we get an annoying, un-turn off-able jingle after each transfer.

[fatalei]

I still can't seem to get uploads to work. Here are the steps I followed in case anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong:

1)Downloaded SonicStage 3.2.00

2)Initialized a disk to make sure it was clean

3)Recorded some music via the optical input

4)Connected my NetMD to my computer via USB

5)Highlighted the tracks on the MD to copy to my library (PC)

6)Click on transfer

I get a message that says that I was unable to transfer the files to my computer.

Please help!!!

Jeff

[tommypeters]

4)Connected my NetMD to my computer via USB

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I guess the problem is there, it wants a Hi-MD with a Hi-MD formatted disc...

[MAVickers]

i have just tried but unfortunately this allows me not to batch-convert (which is faster than convert>wait for unit>transfer>wait for unit>convert>...) and then transfer a bunch of files.

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Ah, yes, that would be problematic.

Do you know how to program? I spent an afternoon figuring out the structure of the database because I was thinking of writing a utility that would actually do the opposite of what you are doing. I archive my collection in mp3 format and save them on DVD, and have been doing batch conversions and then deleting the mp3 files off the HD (by hand).

I've only made it to the letter "D" in my CD collection. With enough motivation I'll write the utility to clear out the mp3 files in the db and hd.

Michael

[atrain]

Hmm, could it be the reason, that Sony Music  was bought by BMG ?

Or is it the new Sony Boss?

They seem to cancel more and more of their silly restrictions.

at last they will release firmware upgrades for the first gen Hi-MDs 

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more that the regime change coupled with sucessive quarter losses have begun to shake up the staid & obstinate policy dept. imo

[ROMBUSTERS]

Well ladies and gents I've had a revelation.

I've come to understand just why Sony would go and release SonicStage 3.2 with added bitrates that hardly any current models (and no future models as of yet) support.

In fact the answer was sooo obvious it just didn't hit me until now. I mean we even have threads already written about it.

Want to know what it is? Want to know why Sony suddenly allows for un-DRM omas? Let's ponder if you will: what current Sony unit supports Atrac but not SonicStage? Still can't get it? I'll give you a hint: it's three words long and its written the same forwards as it is backwards. No? Still nothing? What if I said it was for Sony's most famous brand of products, the PlayStation brand, and that said unit was a portable able to playback both MP3 and Atrac?

That's right my theory is Sony has released SonicStage 3.2 purely (at the moment) to allow users to create un-DRM Atrac oma files that they can then drag and drop onto a memory stick to load onto their PlayStation Portables. Until now the PSP was not able to playback Atrac files because of the limits of DRM causing Sonys great PSP support to be for not.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that the recent PSP firmware update (2.0) might even add support for more than just a video codec, it might expand the Atrac/3/+ audio codec to accept the new bitrates.

Now being that I don't own a PSP all of this is purely speculation however I urge one of the forum members that owns this device to test this out and see just how much the PSP can handle with the new firmware.

[Christopher]

The PSP can indeed facilitate all of these new bitrates. This has been discussed, ad nauseam, at ATRACLife.

[OCedHrt]

Using my NW-E507..seems like the only new bitrate supported is 192kbps :/ One more is better than zero I guess.

[infoman]

Hi

To install SonicStage 3.1 or 3.2 I believe you need to have installed SonicStage 2.0 first. or not have a program called Spybot running

I recently reinstalled my computer and choose not to install SonicStage 2.0 that came with my HiMD 900 device.

Instead I decided to install SonicStage 3.1 from Sony's European website.

I am running Spybot so I have to confirm registry changes which I do.

When I came to use SonicStage this morning I noticed it hadn't installed.

I then found out about SonicStage 3.2 so I tried to install that. It took a while to download and even longer to install. When it came towards the end of the installation and I got a messaging saying cancel. And it stopped and went no further.

Either SonicStage install doesn't like Spybot or you need to install SonicStage 2.0 first.

I know it says update on the 3.1 webpage but it doesn't say you need to have SonicStage 2.0 installed first. I prefer to have as few installations as possible so wanted to by pass the SonicStage 2.0 installation.

Now I read that you can upload tracks without fear of losing them I then read that you can't do any track marking changes to your HiMDs as that will prevent it from uploading to SonicStage correctly.

Every time I read something useful about Sony's HiMD's I read something that stops you doing something useful with it.

I wonder where the uploading problem exists? If it's on the MD unit then one would need to buy a new unit if the problem was ever solved. If it's a problem with SonicStage then may be Sony will solve the problem for all units. Do they want to solve the problem? Is it worth the money spent on trying to solve it? I mean I only found about this problem 10 mouths after I got the unit. Most people buying these units won't be aware. By the time they find out, they probably won't be able to return the unit to the shop to get a refund.

I don't want a refund myself as I still think it's a best device to record things to. The only reason I've not bought a MP3 recorder is that I don't think they are as good yet. I have been e-mailing someone who has a Nomad Jukebox recorder and what I heard of their recordings seemed to be fine. However they are CD walkman size machines. They won't fit into my camera case. I love the way I can put my unit in a camera case and go off and record without to many problems.

The problems only come when I try to get the recordings onto my PC using Sony's software!

Edited August 4, 2005 by infoman

[A440]

I have Spybot running and had no problem installing 3.2 on top of 3.1 , which had been a clean install.

But if you think that's the problem, why not turn off Spybot for the few minutes it takes to install 3.2? Much better than dealing with 2.0.

[atrain]

i have had spybot running for at least 18 months & no problems. i concur with a440's advice.

[infoman]

I think I solved the problem.

When I ran the 3.2 installer again it wanted to look for the SonicStage disc. I just clicked okay as I don't have any discs since it's an internet donwload.

However since then I found that the temp directories had the uninstalled SonicStage files. To my surprise they were still there.

Therefore I just unzipped the SonicStage parts that hadn't instaled and ran the different setup programs that come with them.

Hopefully that will solve the problem.

Not sure why it stopped towards the end of the installation. Unless it didn't like the build up of Spybot allow regestry changes questions. I allowed them all at the end rather than when the question came up each time.

[reefbeef]

Does SS 3.2 pause between tracks when playing from the HiMD like previous versions?

[LupinIV]

Does SS 3.2 pause between tracks when playing from the HiMD like previous versions?

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I am using 3.2 right at this moment and it is NOT gapeless when playing music from Hi-MD

Cheers

[reefbeef]

Thanks LupinIV!

One more question:

I understand that we can now upload multiple times, but does it still freeze the disc from being edited after uploading?

Edited August 5, 2005 by reefbeef

[El Eddie]

One step in the right direction from Sony I would say.

But they still gotta understand that this morronic idea of restrictions dosnt lead nowhere.

That is not the future.

Edited August 6, 2005 by El Eddie

[mdmd]

I (like many of you, as I see) use my HI-MD to make long recordings by a microphone and then to move them on my pc, so let me express my great satisfaction for the removal of the restriction on the number of times I can upload my own recordings.

Now I hope that as soon as possible Sony will remove also the condition to deactivate the write protection on the disc before uploading self-recorder tracks; if I could attivate such a protection I would be completely sure that an eventual error during the upload process would not compromise my recordings.

If I am not wrong, now nothing should be written on the disc during the upload of self-recorded tracks and so this restriction is completely useless.

Isn't it true?

[MarkLynch]

Net MD recordings still cannot be uploaded - the consumers who acknowledged Sony's superior tech to begin with are snubbed.

[laplace]

After my posts here (sorry mods if you think it's off-topic; if so, just move or delete them) I was emailed by a guy who sent me sort of a hack method to get a raw-pcm 1:1 copy of the aforementionned homeless and DRMed oma (Hi-SP) files into Audition 1.5. Everythink ok except 1/ >16kHz data seems to be bad (rejecting it with FFT filter then recreating >16kHz harmonics with a dx plugin); 2/ some track transition problems that have been cured easily. Currently testing to see if this hack could be used in any situation to completely bypass SS use -- ever.

About Low Volta's comments on "when you bought MD hardware you never wanted digital upload" -- well, I never got into MD for pleasure or personal use, as I explained in my posts I'm staying with lossless digital audio since the late seventies; I only recently discovered MD world because a friend of mine asked me to master some of his own-group original MD recordings. Sony MDS-JB980QS (received yesterday) is doing a fairly good job of real-time optical digital output of the old LP2 masters, some jitter but within acceptable margins.

Off-topic or not ? I guess this "SS 3.2 what's new" topic gets a lot of posts about what's allowed or not, what restrictions have changed and I think the main purpose of exploring SS 3.2 is about restrictions, so I wouldn't call it off-topic, even if these posts could also be at home in any "SS 3.0" or "Sony's MD restrictions history"

Edited August 6, 2005 by laplace

[imagine]

Can anyone confirm if the US version works with Canadian devices? I have a NWE407, and I'm wondering if I could use this new version, as the update for Canada has not yet been released. Also, what is the reason that the US version might not work with devices bought in other regions?

Thanks in advance.

[atrain]

it'll work imagine although for more detailed discussion on non md atrac devices please go to www.atraclife.com

[ObrenMasic]

BIG DEAL !!!

This software is the SAME old crap as always.

Why cant Sony just release some driver DLL:s so that we can access the minidisc as any attachable device that can be manipulated with our favorite software.

Also why cant we upload old recordings?

I am still kicking myself for buying into this stupid format.

The day I buy Sony gadgets again is going to be when all H___ frezes over

[emeb]

I did some research with SS3.2 and a hex editor to see what's different about the way recordings are uploaded. Here's what I found:

* If you have previously uploaded a recording with earlier versions of SS, trying to upload it again with SS3.2 will erase it from the disc as with earlier versions.

* When uploading recordings with earlier versions of SS, the trkidx??.hma file was modified in the following ways

1) The Source code was changed to 0x5F9E0000

2) Unknown field at locations 0x18-0x1f in the header info structure changed

3) Unknown field at locations 0x4e-0x4f in the header info structure changed from 0x0803 to 0x0044

* In SS3.2, the only thing that changes when uploading now is the source code as in 1) above. There are no changes to other fields in the info structure.

Summary: Be careful when trying to upload stuff you may have uploaded with earlier versions of SS. If you use SS3.2 exclusively, you should be safe.

[hobgoblin]

so in theory one can change said fields and maybe be able to upload again?

or is there a hidden checksum somewhere that will trash the file completly if one tryes that? anyone willing to risk it?

[emeb]

so in theory one can change said fields and maybe be able to upload again?

or is there a hidden checksum somewhere that will trash the file completly if one tryes that? anyone willing to risk it?

←

I haven't tried altering the fields to see, but others have reported on this elsewhere in the forums. Generally, it seems that there are checksums involved and if you change any of the values in the trkidx??.hma file then SS will delete the track next time you try to do anything with it.

Edited August 7, 2005 by emeb

[hobgoblin]

figures...

this is paranoid stuff...

kinda funny that there are reports of the intel devel machines that apple is shipping ahead of the mac-on-intel release have tpm chips on them.

this is interesting times indeed.

Edited August 7, 2005 by hobgoblin

[Christopher]

Still, there's quite a bit you can do with that..thanks for the information. I think that MarcNet should make a Hi-MD resurrector.

[reefbeef]

Sorry I'm not familiar with the terminology used in the last few posts, but is it possible to upload and still edit the disk?

[tripleeye49]

The file in question will convert to the default bit rate setting of your choice. If you already set it at 256kbps, the ATRAC3plus 128kbps file will be converted to 256kbps accordingly.

←

You must set Sonic Stage to transfer the device as is, or it will transfer the device to what you have it defaulted to, and with older Hi-MD devices it is a choice of three (256,64,48).

With the NW-HD3 (that I have) it was also a choice of three as far as ATRAC compression goes.

[jonny mac]

So let me get this straight (sorry, only now reading through this thread in it's entirity)

1. The removal of compulsory DRM means that any computer with SS can playback the files? So, in theory, you could encode all your CDs on one computer and then transfer them (by CD/DVD/USB storage) to another computer?

2. I assume that music transferred from one computer still cannot be uploaded to another?

3. Optical recordings can now be uploaded but the WAV conversion tool will not work with them (but TR will get the job done in real time)?

4. What is this “initialisation” that is necessary???

5. The removal of LP4 is gonna annoy some NetMD users, especially ones with older computers that have very limited HDD space. I suppose they would be better off sticking with 3.1.

6. If I wanted no DRM on any of my .oma files I would have to delete the ones that are currently on my PC and then re-import with no DRM, yes? Or can the files be un-DRMed?

7. WMP will play .oma files???

Clear and concise replies appreciated, this is all a bit confusing. Cheers

[Ishiyoshi]

Just to answer a few of your questions:

1.  The removal of compulsory DRM means that any computer with SS can playback the files?  So, in theory, you could encode all your CDs on one computer and then transfer them (by CD/DVD/USB storage) to another computer?

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Answer: Yes, that is absolutely correct.

2.  I assume that music transferred from one computer still cannot be uploaded to another?

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Answer: Yes and No - this feature is currently only fully functional with the PSP.

4.  What is this “initialisation” that is necessary???

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Answer: Initialization simply deletes the content of the disc or media in question. However, I never experienced mandatory initialization with my non-MD portable device such as the VAIO Pocket (using SonicStage Japanese version)

6.  If I wanted no DRM on any of my .oma files I would have to delete the ones that are currently on my PC and then re-import with no DRM, yes?  Or can the files be un-DRMed?

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Answer: Yes, you will need to completely delete your DRM library if you want to maintain a total non-DRM library and re-import CD --> ATRAC accordingly.

*I will leave someone else to answer your other query.

[mrsoul]

7.  WMP will play .oma files???

Clear and concise replies appreciated, this is all a bit confusing.  Cheers

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My experience: if I ripped to oma without DRM, then I can play with WMP on ANY computer. If I keep the DRM, I get an error. This happens with WMP 9 and WMP 10.

[tommypeters]

Well, SonicStage 3.2 is a big step forward, for sure. Maybe I should tell Sony Sweden about it, I just got an email from them telling me that 3.1 now is available...

I can't get SimpleBurner to work on my machine, but since I can rip a CD-->HD-->Hi-MD with SS3.2 and then just delete the files on my HD the difference in needed work is minor.

[fishstyc]

6.  If I wanted no DRM on any of my .oma files I would have to delete the ones that are currently on my PC and then re-import with no DRM, yes?  Or can the files be un-DRMed?

If it's just a few files, you could "CONVERT" these files, and then select the same codec and bit rate, and uncheck "USE DRM".

The same file will be produced without DRM! Test the new file with WMP or even on another computer. Now you can delete the original.

This is very usefull to do with your own analog recordings (in case of crashes where the DRM database gets lost, which has been reported hundreds of times already . Then you could use the backups of the oma files on any other computer. Doiing this with tons of CDs, you might be better off rerippping them.

[greenmachine]

But they would be re-encoded, and you would loose sound quality, wouldn't you?

[LJM]

I've had no problems with SS3.2, which is always good to hear. There is something that really confuses me though, and that's the Import CD feature. Use it the first time, and it's fast. However, it slows down through continuous use (without closing the program). It got to the stage where it took me over an hour to burn Hard-Fi's latest album.

I let it rest for a few hours, and it's importing at an acceptable speed again. In fact, it works fine if I restart the program.

Edited August 17, 2005 by LJM

[ozpeter]

Sometimes CD extraction can slow down considerably if errors are encountered.

[fishstyc]

But they would be re-encoded, and you would loose sound quality, wouldn't you?

←

No, I did the test. But please test for yourself so that you can confirm this.

Re-Encoded a file with DRM to without DRM. Exported both files to wav (by deleteing from library then importing/deleting again one file at a time).

Open first file in wave-editor, open 2nd file in wave editor and "invert" that file.

Then "Mix Paste" the second file over the first file. You get all zeroes, instead of some noise. So in the resulting wav-file there was absolutely no difference between the 2.