Thoughts From CES '06

[Christopher]

The Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this year was the largest on record, bringing more than 150,000 technology enthusiasts together in a mass display of what's on deck for the consumer in 2006. Minidisc.org was present..+++

Sony had an incredible booth this year with more than 150k square feet dedicated to the latest offerings from the company. Naturally, as an embassador of Minidisc.org, I immediately reached the booth on the first day of the convention to see if there were any news related to the Minidisc format and it's vulnerable future. Unfortunately, there was absolutely no Minidisc units on display and information regarding the life of the format was impossible to ascertain.

Fortunately, CES has never been the place in which each generation of Minidisc has debuted so it's not a huge loss. It is obvious that if there are to be any further developments to the Hi-MD format it will come from Europe as it did the year before during Spring. What I was able to gather is that there will be more updates for Sonicstage as Sony is definitely not ready for Connect Player to be a definitive music management program. There also seemed to be more optimism for Hi-MD and possibly NetMD devices to be eventually supported via Connect Player, which would be nice if the program reaches a more mature point.

I also heard word of great enhancements and focus on opening up ATRAC (e.g. a SDK for anyone) during 2006, but unfortunately I cannot speak specifically as to what they are. As Hi-MD is able to support 352kbps ATRAC3plus, it would be a nice touch if any future units could record that way natively via the unit itself as well as any future enhancements.

Please feel free to ask any questions here within this topic.

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Sonicstage compatible Wireless Speaker Set + Remote:

(More Info.)

If you're interested in other developments from Sony outside of the Minidisc format during CES such as the one above, please visit ATRACLife (includes more pictures, etc).

Edited January 10, 2006 by kurisu

[garyc]

What about the likes of Sharp and Onkyo, did they have any Hi-MD units on display?

[Christopher]

Nothing.

[pauljones52]

Thanks for your review Kurisu, did you have a good time?

I am interested in what Sonys plans to open up atrac are. I assume you mean SP and not atracplus? Do you think it is likely we could see atrac software encoders apperaring in 2006?, this would be great news for the Net MD owners as it would likely mean that true SP could be imported and transfered by sonicstage!

More updates for sonicstage is also good news, as I can now see a point when this will become an excellent music management program with all bugs ironed out of it. As this is the case, I dont think it is as important at this stage if connect supports minidiscs (obviously when this program becomes as mature as sonicstage then it would be nice!)

Matt

[hobgoblin]

i wonder about that opening of the atrac stuff. most likely its not the same as opening up the drm of sonicstage and hi-md. still, its a bit of wet dream

edit:

oops, outsmarted by a rabbit

Edited January 10, 2006 by hobgoblin

[Petter156]

Huhm... too bad...

I was hoping for some real ideas and talk from actual representatives of Sony. I don´t like this uncertain situation.

Oh well... I guess we´ll just wait and see.

Hope you had fun Kurisu. CES is one of those conventions I would really like to visit. Gadget heaven!

[veezhun]

how are you chris?? had a mini orgasm seeing all the electronics around you??

[big_raji]

I loved the sight of this:

http://www.atraclife.com/2006/01/06/connec...ces-2006-day-2/

Apparently, this device has been available for months, and never caught my eye.

Is there a chance that Sony is releasing car decks with this functionality built in? Any sign of anything like that at CES?

[skyther]

So now everyone's jumping on the Squeezebox/Soundbridge/AirTunes+AE bandwagon eh?

[Artstar]

I read that Stringer also made an appearance at the CES but in accordance with the quote from PC User, I raise one of his comments to attention in which he found it unfair that Sony as a whole was being blamed for the "Rootkit" issue when he steadfastly states was an initiative within the Sony BMG group.

Quite frankly, if Sony is part of it, they need to act that way and take responsibility.

BUT, that's not my complaint nor the thrust of the point I'm about to make. Since Sony as a whole (i.e. their consumer electronics division as well!) was treated unfairly in Stringer's eyes, how does he explain the consumer frustration at the DRM in their HiMD units? Are we supposed to blame Sony BMG for that too instead of Sony as a whole? I would have liked to have been there to ask him that question - logically and diplomatically of course.

If Sony BMG are to blame for that aspect of their consumer audio electronics, then perhaps Stringer needs to tell Sony BMG to back off and let the consumer electronics guys do what they USED to do best.

But if this opening of ATRAC may also mean a slight relaxation on the DRM concept and allow all encoding formats to take place (so I can actually create an MD-SP dump of something onto a standard MD disc rather than being forced to MD-LP), then perhaps someone is listening and acting upon what's being heard. Nevertheless, in my continued support for the HiMD format, I see myself getting my hands on a professional HiMD deck whenever Sony's broadcast division decides to release such a beast. It may not be faster than realtime but at least it will still be digital and I won't have to battle with DRM if I need to dive back into masters I've created on my MZ-R50 or MDS-JA30ES. Sure I can continue to do that (going back into MD-SP archives) now with the MDS-JA30ES without issue but for only as long as optical blocks can still be obtained before they're discontinued. And when it is time to get a deck, it will have to be HiMD.

[hobgoblin]

sure its sony BMG that put the whole stuff in motion. but it still carrys there sony name and therefor it dirtys the sony brand.

if the son of a movie star gets into trouble, it will still make the movie star look bad. basicly, the parent company will allways get shit trown at it as long as the child have the same name. why? people see who the parent is

so two ways of fixing the issue is, change the name of sony BMG so that i no longer carry the sony name, or get more control/oversight over the internal desisions made by sony BMG.

[rirsa]

Stringer...found it unfair that Sony as a whole was being blamed for the "Rootkit" issue when he steadfastly states was an initiative within the Sony BMG group.

So, why is the RIAA, an organization to which Sony belongs, suing parents when their kids illegally download copyright music without their parents' knowledge? My heart bleeds for him.

Edited January 12, 2006 by rirsa

[Tiesto]

are there any news about the Sony NAS-M7HD?

[SleepingInRlyeh]

So, why is the RIAA, an organization to which Sony belongs, suing parents when their kids illegally download copyright music without their parents' knowledge? My heart bleeds for him.

Um, I think it's called corporate hypocrisy. I also think the little slap they got for screwing up people's PCs was way too light. The courts should have made an example of them, and charged them $4K per PC like they charge the 12 year olds' parents.

Anyhow, it looks like CES is kind of a bust for Sony. There was nothing really exciting from what I've seen except the Sony eBook reader (because I like gadgets), but I'm sure they'll screw that up with some kind of Draconian DRM. Maybe they'll actually fix some of the quality problems in their current stuff, and then innovate like they used to.

[ZosoIV]

I hope that the relative lack of all things Sony at CES simply means they're waiting to release some neat things later in the year. I mean, a book reader? Come on!

I'm still hoping for a Hi-MD deck along the lines of my JE-530; perhaps I shouldn't hold my breath, though

[Xas]

I also heard word of great enhancements and focus on opening up ATRAC (e.g. a SDK for anyone) during 2006, but unfortunately I cannot speak specifically as to what they are. As Hi-MD is able to support 352kbps ATRAC3plus, it would be a nice touch if any future units could record that way natively via the unit itself as well as any future enhancements.

Whatwhatwhat...????

Can we, after years and years of dream, developp a plugin for winamp and listen atrac file ?

Will it be possible to communicate with our md devices ??

Damn, what's happen to Sony ?

[Petter156]

That´s speculating pretty freely since nothing has been confirmed and since Kurisu isn´t giving any more details.

We can hope though...

[rirsa]

...and then innovate like they used to.

I have given up on them. I doubt I'll buy another Sony product.

Edited January 13, 2006 by rirsa

[thebarnman]

I thought that Hi-Md was going to continue on for pros to possibly replace DAT. Has anyone ever heard any mention of that,

Thanks!

[hobgoblin]

outside of the bundle-sets of hi-md, mic and mac pcm upload app?

none that i have seen, but then i have not realy looked...

Edited January 14, 2006 by hobgoblin

[tommypeters]

No, for pros they go with the hideously expensive ($2,000) flash units, expanable with memorystick, with built-in mics...

[Petter156]

Semi-pro/prosumer...

[tekdroid]

No, for pros they go with the hideously expensive ($2,000) flash units, expanable with memorystick, with built-in mics...

Was 'thumbing through' the PCM-D1 manual.

Smallish size, drag-n-drop wavs. MMMmmmMMmmmm..

If they took out the:

built-in mics

4GB integrated memory

old-style level meters

...and made the case of regular non-toughened material, they could make this thing so much cheaper. Especially with the ability to use non-Sony Memory Stick flash formats (of course that would never happen).

Whatwhatwhat...????

Can we, after years and years of dream, developp a plugin for winamp and listen atrac file ?

Will it be possible to communicate with our md devices ??

Damn, what's happen to Sony ?

Perhaps they finally realise their ATRAC garbage is going nowhere

[rirsa]

No, for pros they go with the hideously expensive ($2,000) flash units, expanable with memorystick, with built-in mics...

There are lots of different types of professional recording applications and an increasing variety of solid state recorders to meet the spectrum of professional needs. At the low end there are recorders from M-Audio, Edirol and Marantz that start at prices around $400. Most professional recording applications don't need anything like a Sound Devices 722 or the new Sony PCM-D1.

[batfastad]

About this time last year I was in the market for a new portable digital music player having got fed up of using a nokia phone for a year. Bought the MZ-RH10 and my opinion was totally reversed. I was on the verge of giving up on Sony, but I still love this product (there are a few niggles, but it works and sounds great).

Also SonicStage 3 is a massive step up from OpenMGJukebox that I used with my MDS-JB980s deck.

All we need now is a well nice Hi-MD deck.

Please?

[tommypeters]

There are lots of different types of professional recording applications and an increasing variety of solid state recorders to meet the spectrum of professional needs. At the low end there are recorders from M-Audio, Edirol and Marantz that start at prices around $400. Most professional recording applications don't need anything like a Sound Devices 722 or the new Sony PCM-D1.

Well, but the discussion was why Sony doesn't continue with Hi-MD for the (semi-)pro(-sumer)s - not what's available from other companies.

[rirsa]

Well, but the discussion was why Sony doesn't continue with Hi-MD for the (semi-)pro(-sumer)s - not what's available from other companies.

Okay, I'll bite on that question. The simple answer is because the market is shrinking fast. Lots of people who would have bought MD for their recording needs a few years ago are now buying one of the ever-incresing number of affordable flash-based recorders (like those listed above) that are appearing. Throw in the following: they don't use proprietary formats, don't have any type of DRM, have removable memory or directly support fast transfers, and don't use moving media. This may not cut it for you and a few others but for a lot of people these facts coupled with support for a lot of high-end recording features are compelling. The fact remains there are a lot of previous MD users or potential MD users going elsewhere for their recording needs.

I think it is not surprising that Sony's dip into the flash memory recording market is a $2000 machine. For most people this is out the question but don't you think that's why they dipped into the high-end part of the market? The intersting question is whether Sony will come out with a MD-like recorder at MD-like prices that uses solid state memory? They are technically more than capable of competing with M-Audio, Edirol, etc. in this market. The question is, is Sony willing to compete given their paranoia and deadly embrace with all things DRM?

Note also that they are getting killed at the low-end of the market as well as the middle and the high-end. Olympus WS-320: 1GB of memory, unrestricted USB2 upload, records stereo 64kbps WMAs using a 44.1kHz sample rate. Has level meters for each channel and takes external plug-in powered mics. Runs for a long time on a single AAA. Not for music recording but for lectures, interviews and business meetings it works for a lot of people. And it costs as little as $165. When you think about it the WS-320 practically is a flash-based equivalent of a minidisc. If Olympus allowed it to record at higher sample rates, added removable memory, and added manual level control that's basically what we'd have. Maybe that's the next generation Olympus?

Edited January 19, 2006 by rirsa