New generation of minidisc units

[dogville]

I know I'm asking in advance but, does anybody have any news about the third generation of md's?. I guess the rh-1 won't be the only one ???

[Odyssey]

The MZ-Rh1 has a sister unit, the MZ-M200.

Have not found any dates for availablity, just as with the MZ-RH1.

The manual indicates the only difference between the two is the type of microphone supplied with the units. Otherwise, they seem to be carbon copies.

Both advertisements show the units in BLACK.

The MZ-M200 was priced at around $100 bucks more than the MZ-RH1, but that was not a final price, expect it to be cheaper.

Another fine HiMD product from Sony, Gen 3

[Tunster]

If Sony believes the RH1 has gone down as a hit (which I think it has), maybe we might see some lower-end units to come. I wouldn't get my hopes up though.

The only reason to see any more development with the MD format is making the discs hole more capacity (+1GB). But, this may require Sony to detach its backward compatibility to MD (at least) and HiMD.

Would this be a bad thing?

[RobA]

Sadly it looks like no others are planned. It would be really nice to see a player-only unit released, a downloader, and a more player oriented model with line in and mic in.

[The Low Volta]

but...why? this unit really has it all, except for the big screen... but then again, other player only units didn't either (only a big remote)

and all the other models are still available (well if one looks a bit)

[MZ-1]

I'd like a matching OLED remote with all of the artist/disc information. Basically, an OLED MC-40ELK.

Paul

[Norick]

I'd like a new play-only unit as slick and thin as the E10, if that's at all possible.

But to tell you the truth, what I would love is to see Sony REALLY release the RH1 a wide, regular basis. It's quite easy to call a product a success if you only release a couple of units here and there. Make the RH1 really available, then maybe release smth else.

Edited June 9, 2006 by Norick

[Top Cat]

but...why? this unit really has it all

Nope, there gotta be another generation to get rid of auto-trackmarking...

and may be yet another to incorporate the AA as the main power source...

[The Low Volta]

ok... I give you a point on the auto-trackmarking, but honestly, I've been recording lots of concerts line-in and I haven't ran into rediculously lots of tracks yet (35 utmost for a 90 min show...an easy combine for SS) and thanks to timestamp being reintroduced we can't really mix up the sequence anymore

about the AA-power... yes I do admit it has some attraction (especially for the travelers among us) and it would be thoughtful of Sony to produce a second ine: the not so 'top of the line/ultimate' but travel/festival-friendly AA RH1.5 or something. Still, as LiIon can be recharged often (without being fully depleted) it won't actually be much of a bother for me personally (the festivals I attend regularly are withn range of my home or at least of a friends home I can use an electrical outlet from)

At least this are genuinely useful demands... I might have been too fast stating the RH1 is indeed the ultimate recorder (I was mostly reacting to some pre-mature nagging about the lack of a big display seen on these forums before)

still, it is a very good model as it is and if Sony decides to wait with other models (incorporating the above features) I wouldn't really hold it against them as HiMD has been quite a lossy sector I guess... lets take it one step at a time!

[RobA]

but...why? this unit really has it all, except for the big screen... but then again, other player only units didn't either (only a big remote)

and all the other models are still available (well if one looks a bit)

For more options simply and too show that sony is still interested in pushing the format. Here's how I think it should be played out.

NH1 replacement >> RH1

NH600D/DH710 replacement >> DHXXX/NHXXXD

NH700/NHF800 replacement >> RHXXX/NHXXX

RH10 replacement >> RHXX

EH1/EH70/EH50/EH930 replacement >> EHXX (or just release the EH50 and 70 worldwide!)

That's how the 3rd gen should have looked. They replaced the NH1 with the RH1 (a small screened, slim, and all-metal unit). But no RH10 replacement (large screen, jog dial, AA addon unit). No bugdet unit to replace DH710/NH600D (AA powered). No replacement for the nh700/nhf800 (AA powered, line in & mic in ports, radio remote). No player-only unit (or atleast release the eh50 and eh70 worldwide to make up for it).

Sony didn't get it right. There should be 3-4 new units. A player-only, a budget unit (AA), a AA powered unit with line in and mic in, and a player-oriented top of the line model with AA addon.

[garcou]

If Sony believes the RH1 has gone down as a hit (which I think it has), maybe we might see some lower-end units to come. I wouldn't get my hopes up though.

The only reason to see any more development with the MD format is making the discs hole more capacity (+1GB). But, this may require Sony to detach its backward compatibility to MD (at least) and HiMD.

Would this be a bad thing?

Why? DVD burners also burn cds!

[The Low Volta]

For more options simply and too show that sony is still interested in pushing the format. Here's how I think it should be played out.

NH1 replacement >> RH1

NH600D/DH710 replacement >> DHXXX/NHXXXD

NH700/NHF800 replacement >> RHXXX/NHXXX

RH10 replacement >> RHXX

EH1/EH70/EH50/EH930 replacement >> EHXX (or just release the EH50 and 70 worldwide!)

That's how the 3rd gen should have looked.

ehm... NH and RH are already different generations:

- NH1/900 --> RH10

- NH700/800 --> RH910

- NH600(D) --> RH710(D)

- player only units have (with HiMD) always been a Japn-only sector (no difference in generations there)

so if you look a 3rd gen you'd get:

- RH10/910 --> RH1

so only the downloader has been dropped and it is all part of Sony's focus on (semi-)pro users in stead of converted ex-mp3/iPodders

you still want something else... all models mentioned above can still be found new (except almost for the NH900/NH1 as they were too popular... hey and it's exactly those models they have been working from for the RH1, whattacoincidence!)

no really... you like HiMD, you must like the more focussed way Sony is handlin this. If you still dream about 7 models / generation you are euther stupid, a 16 year old dreamer or someone who wants to see Sony burn his hands at HiMD

learn to live with capitalist market logic and real life and you might become a lot happier this reincarnation

as I said before, I do see space for another model... but I do not blame Sony for not producing one unless the RH1 does ok...

so for all you criticists out there (you know who you are ) perhaps you might realize that by dissin' the RH1 you might drive sales down, this might instigate Sony to ditch HiMD at all as even the top-of-the-top (or in French: crème de la crème) won't sell significantly... and then where will you be?

so why not focus on the big bunch of stuff Sony has done well lately (software and hardware wise) in stead of nagging on and on because they didn't produce your HiMD-wet-dream yet

first save up so you have the cash, then come up with constructive AND realistic comments...then you have a right to complain IMHO

PS: I went back to the RM-MC38EL tat came with the RH1 for playback (while I do have a RM-40ELK at my disposal)... at some stage you will realize that it is the music you need to be listening to and not to be reading titles ... who cares what a CD is called if it's good??

[bogon07]

Most people here would like Sony to come up with a few companion models for the RH1 for the sake of choice, backup models and just collecting the things.

Perhaps a cheaper unit with AA batteries and a player. A lot of members of this forum back up their words with hard cash just look at how many units they own.

The biggest danger to the MD market has and will always be Sony themselves in the way they deal with their customers and retailers. Their practice of making several versions of the same model for different markets rather than a world wide model is also commercial madness.

[RobA]

Low Volta, I am fully aware that the NH and RH models are from different generations, I just think sony needs to catch up on some missed from both 1st and 2nd generations. The NH1 is in no way to be considered an upgrade to the rh10/910 as they are completely different, one geared at playback, the other recording. Sony needs a more player oriented model, the rh1 is clearly an upgrade to the nh1. There is nothing wrong with that, but there has to be more options.

Yes I know all the other models are still available, but it seems like sony is completely giving up on the format and only concentrating on recording. By doing this, the user-base will not increase, only decrease, as it now only serve recordists. Nothing for people looking for budget units or top of the line playback oriented units with recording functions also.

[jaylen]

so for all you criticists out there (you know who you are tongue.gif )

so why not focus on the big bunch of stuff Sony has done well lately (software and hardware wise) in stead of nagging on and on because they didn't produce your HiMD-wet-dream yet

first save up so you have the cash, then come up with constructive AND realistic comments...then you have a right to complain IMHO

Amen, Volta. But, we all know who you are mainly talking to and it's like yelling at a brick wall. Nothing goes through and the same comments will keep popping up on this forum like a broken Milli Vanilli record.

[Tunster]

I miss agree with Low Volta on this one. The MD community is still very strong and the release of this RH1 has pulled together the enthusiasts, but really has seen a stink out of one or two negative people that are driving the RH1 down.

Sony have done extremely well to serve us with a product that has tingled our senses. The RH1 has brought me back to MD for good. As much as each unit has its pros/cons, the RH1 out weighs Pro's like the weight of an elephant to the stupid little mouse type cons (like the display). I love the display on unit! It tells you as much as you need from a recorders perspective, then Sony sensibly put in the remote to give you the extra titling info. Why do I want 3 lines? Its not like I want to read the text on the screen all day. Its just aids finding what you want from the disc you've recorded.

Whats the point of being negative about SONY? They've dished out the best they can serve from the RH1 format, and I hope there's more to come (which I'm sure there is from the instant popularity of the format!). Just hope Sony gets into gear and gets loads of RH1s sent out.

[RobA]

Tunster, you have to understand something here. Of course the rh1 is perfect for you, coming from a recorders perspective. I use the MD format for playback and playback only. You ask me why I need the 3 line remote. Why? Because it shows more data and has a jog dial to scroll through songs quickly so I don't have to keep pressing next/previous on a disc with hundreds of songs on it. It's hard to find the one you want on a disc loaded with music with only a one line display.

That's why sony should've produced more. Don't get me wrong, sony was GREAT to produce the RH1. It has many advancements and is a great upgrade to the NH1 (except for the remote). The problem I have is that they aren't releasing any other units to cater other people's needs, only recordists. They should produce a budget downloader that runs on AA's, a top of the line player oriented (that can record too) model (upgrade to rh10) and maybe one more player/recorder that uses AA's.

Sony produced only one model, which only caters to recordists, grave mistake sony.

[Tunster]

Now you have to understand the RH1 is the dream unit for the recordists point of view. And damn right it is, because Sony know they have lost the playback battle. All this negative nonsense with the RH1 is crap. I've made the RH1 into a very good useful playback unit, which it is in its own right. They havent made the grave stone decision, is more like reserrected from the grave because of its popularity.

They should produce a budget downloader that runs on AA's, a top of the line player oriented (that can record too) model (upgrade to rh10) and maybe one more player/recorder that uses AA's.

They tried that already with the MZ-EH1 and Sony MZ-NH3D for example (only with Li-Ion batteries, AA battery units make it clunky and horrible!). Maybe they didn't go down as well and have scraped the idea. With the thing you said about scrolling through them quickly, maybe MD isn't for you. I don't whether you have odd songs on their or full albums. The RH1 is more than fine for albums with the group function. If you're a more a few songs per band, maybe you should be using an iPod or equivalent player.

[dogville]

Tunster, you have to understand something here. Of course the rh1 is perfect for you, coming from a recorders perspective. I use the MD format for playback and playback only. You ask me why I need the 3 line remote. Why? Because it shows more data and has a jog dial to scroll through songs quickly so I don't have to keep pressing next/previous on a disc with hundreds of songs on it. It's hard to find the one you want on a disc loaded with music with only a one line display.

That's why sony should've produced more. Don't get me wrong, sony was GREAT to produce the RH1. It has many advancements and is a great upgrade to the NH1 (except for the remote). The problem I have is that they aren't releasing any other units to cater other people's needs, only recordists. They should produce a budget downloader that runs on AA's, a top of the line player oriented (that can record too) model (upgrade to rh10) and maybe one more player/recorder that uses AA's.

Sony produced only one model, which only caters to recordists, grave mistake sony.

Then let me ask you something. Do you think the playback part of the rh1 is bad?. You talk about you use "MD format for playback", so does the rh-1 sound worse than your present md on playback?. As far as I know, you can use the rh1 to play or to record, and the play back quality is amazing, as it has been told in this forum serveral times.

You want the rh-1 for playback, use it for that. I don't understand that point of the critic to this gadget. Remember it has a HD amplifier.

If you are talking about the money you have to spend, I understand. You want a playback model with the quality of the rh-1 but without recording, don't you?. If it is that, I agree with you and guess sony must release some models with these features.

regards

Sony produced only one model, which only caters to recordists, grave mistake sony.

What's so bad about it?. Use it to play and forget about the recording, so simple.

[RobA]

Then let me ask you something. Do you think the playback part of the rh1 is bad?. You talk about you use "MD format for playback", so does the rh-1 sound worse than your present md on playback?. As far as I know, you can use the rh1 to play or to record, and the play back quality is amazing, as it has been told in this forum serveral times.

You want the rh-1 for playback, use it for that. I don't understand that point of the critic to this gadget. Remember it has a HD amplifier.

If you are talking about the money you have to spend, I understand. You want a playback model with the quality of the rh-1 but without recording, don't you?. If it is that, I agree with you and guess sony must release some models with these features.

regards

What's so bad about it?. Use it to play and forget about the recording, so simple.

I'm well aware it can playback music and that the quality is top-notch. I mean the convienance of playback. Like having a larger display (that can display artist/track titles), a jog dial (to scroll through songs, especially when you have a disc with a few hundred tracks). Sony should release models that are cost-reduced and aim more at playback users also, to give them what they are looking for in a player.

Please guys don't get me wrong, the RH1 IS A FANTASTIC UNIT! But it was made for recordists and it is their dream unit for sure. But sony didn't release enough in the 3rd gen to please all, is all that I am saying.

Now you have to understand the RH1 is the dream unit for the recordists point of view. And damn right it is, because Sony know they have lost the playback battle. All this negative nonsense with the RH1 is crap. I've made the RH1 into a very good useful playback unit, which it is in its own right. They havent made the grave stone decision, is more like reserrected from the grave because of its popularity.

They tried that already with the MZ-EH1 and Sony MZ-NH3D for example (only with Li-Ion batteries, AA battery units make it clunky and horrible!). Maybe they didn't go down as well and have scraped the idea. With the thing you said about scrolling through them quickly, maybe MD isn't for you. I don't whether you have odd songs on their or full albums. The RH1 is more than fine for albums with the group function. If you're a more a few songs per band, maybe you should be using an iPod or equivalent player.

I do not use the group function as I like all my songs together. I will never be just another face in the crowd using a piece of shit ipod with low battery life and fragile HDs. I went to MD for removable and cheap media, long battery life, and not having to worry about a fragile HD. And I love MD, I am here to stay. I just want sony to continue what they have been doing in the past generations (attacking both the recording and playback market, not just one of them and giving up on the other).

[The Low Volta]

PS: something you might not know about Rob, bu there really is no need to blindly flick through hundreds of tracks with FF or REW on the RH1!

- the remote that comes with it is a one line backlit remote (RM-MC38EL or RM-MC35ELK) that is able to show title, album, artist, group, disc-title (even though it needs a push of 'display' to switch between 'em)

- this remote comes with 'group +' and 'group -' buttons which allow you to jump up or down one group

- you can also choose playback options like group, artist, album, normal

so really, certainly if you use HiSP (so you'll have about 8 CD's max on a disc), this is more than easy enough to navigate on the remote

as I said before, while I do have a RM-MC40ELK remote, I switched back o the RM-MC38EL that came with the RH1 as it is more than adequate!

Yes, the NH900/RM-MC40ELK combo shows more info on the remote (even more than the RH10/RM-MC40ELK combo) and the RH10's screen/scrollwheel allow even more freedom in navigating... but for ppl listening to whole albums or single tracks shuffled (I belong to the first category) the RH1/RM-MC38EL does the trick just as well! Only if you are constantly looking for a specific track, you will feel limited... but then again I would advice you to review your listening habits

my advice (again) for all ppl feeling the need to comment on the RH1's (and actually all models and remotes and combos) usability issues etc. ... please use it first (go to a Sony centre or something, but get some first-hand experience with it) and then formulate real issues you have with it... cause as long as your opinion stems from 'imagining how it will be' you'll have a big chance of misinforming ppl!

BTW: I have a (European) NH900, RH1, RM-MC38EL (black & silver) and RM-MC40ELK myself and I have used my friend's (European) RH10 for a couple of hours to get the feel of it. Further I have handled the NH600D, NH700/800, NH1 and RH910 in-store so I guess I can (at least at a basic level) compare them at the level of ease of use etc.

PS2 ( no pun intended ):

- you can use group function while still having the feeling you just have all tracks together IMHO... just have groups of each album or arbitrarely of each 50 tracks (just to make navigation a bit smoother)

- if you do not have groups, jump group buttons can be used to jump 10 tracks forward or backward at once... this is what I mean by "use it first before you comment on it'

PS3 (slightly overpriced... pun intended ):

Rob... while you are constantly telling us we can't celebrate the RH1 fully as it is a recorder only and we are only looking at it from a strict recorders-view and there are a lot of other users out there, you seem to forget what a 'unique' user pattern you have:

- you simply "do not use groups" and you have "a couple of hundred songs in low bitrates (HiLP IIRC) on a disc"... perhaps you should realize that a lot of the MD 'listen-only' users display very different and much more RH1-compatible listening patterns:

- they often listen to groups or albums at once, and they mostly prefer higher bitrates like HiSP or even 352kbps and PCM (which makes a grand total of 8 CD's / disc max)

final addition (for now )

Sony did not give up on the 'playback' market... it chose to focus on the (semi-)pro recording market ...there is a subtle but very important difference:

- the RH1 still offers very good (especially SQ-wise) playback abilities

- but the main improvements/strenghts (as compared to the previous generations and to the ipuddle/MP3-player-jungle) are in the field of recording

still, as I guess Sony reckoned almost all semi-pro recordists love to listen back to their recordings at high SQ, the playback options are still there and very, very good as well

[poe]

Does the Milli Vanilli record really need to be broken for it to repeat?POE

[ironbut]

Does the Milli Vanilli record really need to be broken for it to repeat?POE

If you really want to kill Sony's Minidisc efforts dead forever, hope as you are, that they beat heads against the ipod, playback steamroller! I don't think that anyone with a whit of marketing knowhow would introduce any product at this time against it. It could be 10 times better, half the size and 1/4 the cost and the ipod would still stomp it into the ground. Or, more to the point, it wouldn't even notice it as it faded into obscurity. If you haven't noticed, ipod Means portable player, and sony know this because at one time Walkman meant the same thing. In 2004 Apple announced that 2 million ipods had been sold. In the first quarter of this year (ending 4/1/06) over 8.5 million ipods were sold. When a product is that hot, you just get out of the way. So forget about it. I love my mz m100 and if you want a minidisc, buy one! They're going for less than half retail now.

[Tunster]

If you really want to kill Sony's Minidisc efforts dead forever, hope as you are, that they beat heads against the ipod, playback steamroller! I don't think that anyone with a whit of marketing knowhow would introduce any product at this time against it. It could be 10 times better, half the size and 1/4 the cost and the ipod would still stomp it into the ground. Or, more to the point, it wouldn't even notice it as it faded into obscurity. If you haven't noticed, ipod Means portable player, and sony know this because at one time Walkman meant the same thing. In 2004 Apple announced that 2 million ipods had been sold. In the first quarter of this year (ending 4/1/06) over 8.5 million ipods were sold. When a product is that hot, you just get out of the way. So forget about it. I love my mz m100 and if you want a minidisc, buy one! They're going for less than half retail now.

The huge problem is that companies that are trying to rival the iPod aren't willing to put in the millions and millions dollars on advertising. There is no way the iPod is so sucessful based on its technical attributes. It caught onto the idea that mass mesmerising marketing would shove the word iPod into everyones head via TVs and Radio, and its worked.

Then this allowed Apple to charge what they liked on their iPods, because they knew people woule buy them regardless on price. It very slowly turned into a fashion accessory and then the death (or slow discintigration) of other MP3 players started.

Minidisc has got caught up in this revolution unfortunately, which has seen the steady decline. Before iPod was even a buzz word, I managed to turn a few to minidisc. I'd just get laughed at if I tried now, lol.

Maybe one day soon, Sony will make us a groundbreaking piece of audio hardware that is so attractive, everyone will have to buy it, lol.

At the end of the day, Sony are the audio experts, not Apple.

[Sparky191]

....

PS: I went back to the RM-MC38EL tat came with the RH1 for playback (while I do have a RM-40ELK at my disposal)... at some stage you will realize that it is the music you need to be listening to and not to be reading titles ... who cares what a CD is called if it's good??

Personally I like that they are making a high end unit. However I agree with others that a cheaper AA powered unit would be worthwhile.

As for the remote. I often bring a load of tracks with me to check out. Classical stuff and stuff on Free complation CD's etc. Its nice to be able to hear a track you don't know, but like, and then look down and see what it, which artist etc. Personally I just like a nice big display with lots of info. The Cowon iAudio remotes are a good example of getting lots of info on a small display, on unit or remote. A Backlight is essential too.

I wish people would stop slagging off the iPod. Yes it has its faults, but it does a lot of things well, and for the average user (not the majoirty of MD users) its a great player. Sony and MD users should learn from what the iPod does well, not moan about the bad points. The best parts of iPod/iTunes mated with the best parts of MD/HiMD/SS would be fantastic.

[SocDoc]

I don't think that anyone with a whit of marketing knowhow would introduce any product at this time against it. It could be 10 times better, half the size and 1/4 the cost and the ipod would still stomp it into the ground. Or, more to the point, it wouldn't even notice it as it faded into obscurity. If you haven't noticed, ipod Means portable player, and sony know this because at one time Walkman meant the same thing. In 2004 Apple announced that 2 million ipods had been sold. In the first quarter of this year (ending 4/1/06) over 8.5 million ipods were sold. When a product is that hot, you just get out of the way. So forget about it. I love my mz m100 and if you want a minidisc, buy one! They're going for less than half retail now.

no doubt

although, i own both an ipod (one of them first gen ones) and an mz-m100...so, who am i to talk

[Tunster]

Personally I like that they are making a high end unit. However I agree with others that a cheaper AA powered unit would be worthwhile.

As for the remote. I often bring a load of tracks with me to check out. Classical stuff and stuff on Free complation CD's etc. Its nice to be able to hear a track you don't know, but like, and then look down and see what it, which artist etc. Personally I just like a nice big display with lots of info. The Cowon iAudio remotes are a good example of getting lots of info on a small display, on unit or remote. A Backlight is essential too.

I wish people would stop slagging off the iPod. Yes it has its faults, but it does a lot of things well, and for the average user (not the majoirty of MD users) its a great player. Sony and MD users should learn from what the iPod does well, not moan about the bad points. The best parts of iPod/iTunes mated with the best parts of MD/HiMD/SS would be fantastic.

I must agree with about the iAudio remotes. I have an M3 myself (superb unit!) and the remote is absolutely fantastic. Maybe not for the hard of sight, but for a general user, all the info is nicely placed on that screen. The M3 has no info on the unit (actually, no screen to be correct) and it does very nively. Too many people (including my friends) were slagging it off because it didn't have an "iPod" equivelant screen.

Did I need a MP3 player with a LCD screen on it? No. Did the unit justify itself to have one? No. Its what it did that made it worth while. Multiple format playback, radio, recording (line-in), voice recording. I must admit, the only thing it lacked was ID3 tagging and a ID3 database that goes with it. But there wasn't any need for one if you placed the music in an organised fashion. The ID3 database on the iPod is a damn lazy average joe feature. Quite nice, but not really needed.

In comparison, the M3 in my eyes is the RH1 equivelant in terms of minidisc. There's alot wrong with the iPod, this is why always heavily critisise it. I have messed around with one as well. As much as the jog dial and easy of use is there for the simpleton average joe, it didn't appeal to me. SQ was crap. I actually dislike the design. Too fragile, not many features for what you pay for, etc etc. I could go on.

The huge problem with iTunes + the store + DRM is that its controlling you and what you can do with your music. I don't like that. With a CD purchase, you can do what you like and its yours to keep. Play it anywhere, make back-ups (which is legal if you don't share it).

*Getting back on topic* At least Sony has started to realise we want control of our music/recordings but lifting most of the restrictions. SS4.0 is pretty damn good from what I can tell (compared with SS2.0). Doesn't crash, full multi-platform support when ripping. So now I rip my CDs to 320kbps AAC, then convert those to A3+ 192kbps which sounds very nice on my RH1.

Just hope Sony continue this trend if they wish to travel on with their HiMD adventure. Maybe even spark off another format (Bigger than 1GB disks?).... Who knows?

[Sparky191]

Why bother banging on about SQ if you are going to transcode all your music?

The people who critise the iPod are people are usually not its intended market, or who don't understand the balance of good and bad points about it. Write it off as a device for joe soap if you want, but you'd be wiser to find out why many audiophiles use it, and how they get around the bad points.

ID3 database is not a lazy feature. You need it to have dynamic/smart playlists and clever syncronisation. its actually one of the clever killer features of iPod/iTunes.

DRM is a common problem for all devicest that have that feature. Thats not an argument against iPods but against DRM in general. You don't HAVE to use it with your player. You don't even HAVE to use iTunes with an iPod.

Sony has given up with HiMD as a competitor for iPod. Indeed MD has never really caught on even before MP3 became widespread. Sony HD players are fighting that battle at the moment. They also have learnt nothing from the success of iTunes/iPod and suffer from the same weak Sony software that MD did. They simply won't compete with the iPod doing that.

The RH1 is a great recorder. A great player though?

[Tunster]

The iPod was definately not the first player to have a ID3 Tag Database and why should that make it the clever killer feature? Were they clever when making the iPod shuffle? No.....Any bog standard player shuffles music. All it is clever advertising. There really isn't anything special about the iPod.

You think how muvh money has been poored into researching MD compared to Apple making the iPod? Any company with enough money can design and put together something like the iPod. Thats why there are so many on the market today.

There really isn't any justice in the world for MD. Being a fantastic 1990s revolution leading on from CDs/Tapes, Apple have really snatched Sony's masterpiece of MD.

I just hope Sony has learnt from its mistakes a few years ago not unleashing the NetMD technology with freedoms we now have from the RH1. The RH1 is certainly a great player. Why not with all the features and flexibilty you have it?

[Sparky191]

No offense you're missing the point, but proving mine, that most people who complain about iPods don't get why they are so successful. Its not only marketing. They have some excellent features that people want!

ID3 DB isn't whats clever. Dynamic/smart playlists and clever synchronisation is. KISS usually works very well. Especially when people have busy lives or are not gadget freaks, they don't want extra complication. That why the iPod/iTunes really works. Its KISS. The Shuffle is a perfect example of this. A lot of people only ever listen to their MP3 players on Shuffle. So Apple made the simplist player ever to target that kinda user. As a bonus the Shuffle has one of the best SQ of any MP3 player. Probably by accident rather then design as it has much better SQ then the other iPods that preceeded it. So you'll find a lot of Audiophiles use it as their minimalist/disposable rig. Simple ergonomic buttons than you can use in the gym, or through clothing etc.

I have PCDP's, MD/HiMD, HD DAPS and a Shuffle (till it broke). The Shuffle is/was the best sounding and my favourite of them all.

[Tunster]

No offense you're missing the point, but proving mine, that most people who complain about iPods don't get why they are so successful. Its not only marketing. They have some excellent features that people want!

99% is marketing in terms of the iPod. Attractive and catchy adverts with pop music made people go out and look at it (after 2nd/3rd gen). If Sony really wanted to make MD really popular, they would of poored loads of money into advertising like Apple did. Any company with a sucessful product (Microsoft, Apple, Ford, etc etc) has to.

For some reason, Sony refrained; especially in the American/European market where the iPod capitalised and growed quickly.

Sparky, I don't wanna get into any petty argument, lol. We do have very different opinions. But right from the start of the iPod, I personally didn't want to fall into the "fashion" accessory trap. I love my gadgets, and they have to more different than the "average joe" product . This is why I love MD so much.

I just felt and knew there was always something better than the iPod. I did find it with the Cowon iAudio M3. It just had a more dynamic sound compared to the iPod which I find with all of them........a bit flat and dull.

I don't knock all of the iPod down. I do like the click wheel (really makes use of the ID3 DB idea, thats what set that off nicely). But thats it unfortunately.

[DrDann]

Almost any other MP3 player is better/cheaper than the Ipuddle.... myh old Archos blew it way, and even the cheap COBY units have equal or better SQ (which with MP3 is tollerable only at 170K or above..)

[Sparky191]

You CAN use a iPod to get decent SQ or you can use it to get bad SQ. Thats up to the person using it. Like you can have a badly encoded low quality 320kps MP3 which is worse than a well encoded 192kps file. So apologies if I'm dismissive of vague sweeping generalisations.

In one hand you desire MD to be come more popular, yet you completely fail to grasp the key features that make the iPod popular. iPod use is increasing, and a lot of that is repeat customers who like the product and buy the newer model. Whereas lots of people by MD/HiMD hate it and switch to an iPod. Thats not just marketing.

The RH1 is big improvement over whats gone before, for MD users. But its a very different product to an iPod, it simply lacks the features and ease of use that they want. That those feature are not of interest to you doesn't make those features of no value.

[Top Cat]

about the AA-power... yes I do admit it has some attraction (especially for the travelers among us) and it would be thoughtful of Sony to produce a second ine: the not so 'top of the line/ultimate' but travel/festival-friendly AA RH1.5 or something. Still, as LiIon can be recharged often (without being fully depleted) it won't actually be much of a bother for me personally (the festivals I attend regularly are withn range of my home or at least of a friends home I can use an electrical outlet from)

I thought about this and came to an analogy: Li-Ion (read: expensive & virtually irreplaceable) batteries to a Hi-MD recorder is like built-in memory to a flash recorder.

After all, the Sony's top-line flash recorder ($2000, so the thing is pretty serious) has 4 GB of internal memory - good for recording most any single-day event. Only at the end of the day you have to "recycle" it.

[Sparky191]

Are you comparing the life of Flash memory to batteries?