Minidisc should have won!

[Webmaster]

An interesting article on c|net uk discusses format wars and lost formats that should have won, including Minidisc.

From the article: MiniDisc was fantastically versatile. You could buy pre-recorded music on the format or simply use your hi-fi to copy a CD to a blank disc. MiniDisc's hard outer case meant the surface of the disc was far less likely to become scratched and damaged over time.

One of the best things about the format is the size of the players and the media. Initially the hardware was quite bulky, but as time went on, portable player/recorders were developed that were just a little bit larger than a MiniDisc, which made them ideal portable music players.

[bobt]

An interesting article on c|net uk discusses format wars and lost formats that should have won, including Minidisc.

From the article: MiniDisc was fantastically versatile. You could buy pre-recorded music on the format or simply use your hi-fi to copy a CD to a blank disc. MiniDisc's hard outer case meant the surface of the disc was far less likely to become scratched and damaged over time.

One of the best things about the format is the size of the players and the media. Initially the hardware was quite bulky, but as time went on, portable player/recorders were developed that were just a little bit larger than a MiniDisc, which made them ideal portable music players.

interesting article, but nothing mentioned of Hi-MD, or recording, or uploading, but interesting, although I don't agree with the Nirvana reference, Tangerine Dream would be more to my liking

Bob

[bobzilli]

Great stuff, though a little naive in respect to 8 Track in particular

[Strungup]

Great stuff, though a little naive in respect to 8 Track in particular

Ahhhhhhh now the truth is known , why had the milk turned sour, see I could not . But now Clearly see ,I do !!!! No Memory this one has , of the highway , and 1969 Dodge Van , With 8 Track Tape playing Steve Miller , and Boston, and Eagles , and Fuzzy dice in the Mirror , AHHH understand now do I .

Hmmmmmm the way of the Source , in this one , see it , training it needs but see it I do !

from page ten , this is precious

"His meddling with the fabric of time would also have yielded a surprising result. The success of BeOS and its sale to Apple computer would mean that Steve Jobs never returned to the company, meaning there is no iPod in this alternate reality. Instead, everyone either has a MiniDisc player or an oddly shaped Creative MP3 player."

Edited July 23, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[Sparda]

That was a nice read. I wonder how BeOS compares to Ubuntu. But some of the old tech I would rather not have be revived. The current stuff ain't that bad.

[chobin]

mmh.. a parallel world without that bulky ipods? veery fine.. too much to believe it.. only sicere Samsung Yepps or Creatives, a grat increase in our world diffused beauty.. hey! one moment...

no more ipods means also no more stupid but very nice girls looking to my RH1 or even R900 remote, suffering the anti-ergonomics of their istuff and looking to me like a man-from-the-future... hehe very funny and very common here in Milan...

[Strungup]

mmh.. a parallel world without that bulky ipods? veery fine.. too much to believe it.. only sicere Samsung Yepps or Creatives, a grat increase in our world diffused beauty.. hey! one moment...

no more ipods means also no more stupid but very nice girls looking to my RH1 or even R900 remote, suffering the anti-ergonomics of their istuff and looking to me like a man-from-the-future... hehe very funny and very common here in Milan...

Well Birds DO examine the feathers first ya know !!!

[minidix]

The problem is no matter how brilliant an idea or broduct is, America makes or breaks it. And for those fat ass Americans Jay Leno talks about (almost every night ) ) the notion of portable means in-car portable, because they rarely get out of their fat car, only for sleeping (but not always for eating ) Because of them one could see in people's bulged pockets, even few years ago, those gigantic analog cell phones and I still see people with those huge, ridiculous "portable" mp3 CD players banging on their hip, hanged on their shoulder like a purse and often IN a normal size purse (they can't be actually carried on the belt) Not even the 8 cm CD-ROM (there were few portable players for them, I remember one from Philips, there was even a portable 8cm CD player/writer) did't catch up, even they were "almost" portable...

Remember Divx? Not the software, few years before that it was a new DVD standard, meant for film rental, which allowed every one to get a film from any superstore but not buying it, just paying the same price as at video renting shops (actually less, because they didn't need to pay those wise guys that always say "sorry, we don't keep foreign language films" or "you have to try again Monday, maybe someone returns the (only) copy". You simply could keep the disk home for ever and pay (thru the modem included into the player) the same modest wiewing tax every (few) times you wanted to watch the fim again, or even the "silver tax"which unlocked the film for ever if you even wanted to watch the film 1001 times (but still was cheaper than is buying a film on DVD today). But Divx Company bankrupted soon (and generously unlocked online all the disks it ever saled), because of the same fat ass-hole people which couldn't accept to pay again (even it was only a fraction from the price of buying a film DVD) for an object they thought they already owned because it was in their shopping cart at the supermarket . So if it didn't bother them to queue at the video rental shop twice a week (no problem. If you don't have to walk to, why not? ), the people from the rest of the world (and I mean Europe and Asia) was deprived of this briliant renting system I'm shure they were smart(er) enough to embrace

Instead there are today some stupid video renting ideas, like the DVD whose metal layer oxidises some hours after you get it out from his plastic bag !!!!!

[podmed2]

MD will still be here with us in 100 years. The Hardware will be available. That is how it will differ from the other formats. iPods will Morph into something different - but I am sure quite cool. MD = Retro. Just look at Vinyl. (Portable Vinyl?????)

[Guest bugnot]

The problem is no matter how brilliant an idea or broduct is, America makes or breaks it. And for those fat ass Americans Jay Leno talks about (almost every night ) ) the notion of portable means in-car portable, because they rarely get out of their fat car, only for sleeping (but not always for eating ) Because of them one could see in people's bulged pockets, even few years ago, those gigantic analog cell phones and I still see people with those huge, ridiculous "portable" mp3 CD players banging on their hip, hanged on their shoulder like a purse and often IN a normal size purse (they can't be actually carried on the belt) Not even the 8 cm CD-ROM (there were few portable players for them, I remember one from Philips, there was even a portable 8cm CD player/writer) did't catch up, even they were "almost" portable...

Remember Divx? Not the software, few years before that it was a new DVD standard, meant for film rental, which allowed every one to get a film from any superstore but not buying it, just paying the same price as at video renting shops (actually less, because they didn't need to pay those wise guys that always say "sorry, we don't keep foreign language films" or "you have to try again Monday, maybe someone returns the (only) copy". You simply could keep the disk home for ever and pay (thru the modem included into the player) the same modest wiewing tax every (few) times you wanted to watch the fim again, or even the "silver tax"which unlocked the film for ever if you even wanted to watch the film 1001 times (but still was cheaper than is buying a film on DVD today). But Divx Company bankrupted soon (and generously unlocked online all the disks it ever saled), because of the same fat ass-hole people which couldn't accept to pay again (even it was only a fraction from the price of buying a film DVD) for an object they thought they already owned because it was in their shopping cart at the supermarket . So if it didn't bother them to queue at the video rental shop twice a week (no problem. If you don't have to walk to, why not? ), the people from the rest of the world (and I mean Europe and Asia) was deprived of this briliant renting system I'm shure they were smart(er) enough to embrace

Instead there are today some stupid video renting ideas, like the DVD whose metal layer oxidises some hours after you get it out from his plastic bag !!!!!

You have got to be kidding. Divx was the stupidest POS ever conceived! If you think it's so great, why don't you create such a system for Europe and Asia? Show us "fat ass" Americans you don't need our support to make a product succeed. Sheesh...

[ZosoIV]

While I completely agree that MiniDisc "should have" won, I'm not sure how much of an effect it would have had on how many of us still use the format as of this late date. Even in places where it was popular (Asia, for example), MD is now on its way out. I think what you would have seen if MD caught on big in the mid 90s was either a delay (or non-uptake) of small capacity flash units from 2001 onward until high-capacity flash players (4GB-8GB+) became practical (which happened about 2005). I'm not sure MD would have made a difference in the uptake of HDD units like iPods or Zens or Zunes, since a hard-disk based player is obviously for storing huge amounts of compressed music (even whole libraries) on a single device - and appeals to people for different reasons than a small flash-based or MD-based player would. That's why comparing an MD recorder and a player-only HDD unit never made sense to me.

The article is also a bit wrong on 8-tracks: they didn't lose, they simply became obsolete. By the early 1980s, cassettes had become good enough, cheap enough, and plentiful enough to render the larger and more finicky 8-track tapes useless. 8-track recorders and Dolby-B equipped units DID exist, but the bulkiness of the huge tapes, combined with the lack of a rewind (some later players did fast-forward) and rather poor quality due to wow, flutter, and sub-standard tape heads couldn't match the compact cassette. At least here in the US, 8-tracks were THE tape format from about 1968-1981, and were found everywhere - especially in autos. Hardly what I would call a loser!

While I wouldn't necessarily call MD "obsolete" at this point, it is obvious that time has moved on and it's strengths aren't as compelling as they were even five years ago - five years ago, there was hardly anything else on the market like MiniDisc. If Sony had done thing differently in the early 90s, MD would have been very popular then, but I'm not sure things would have been much different by 2007.

Edited July 25, 2007 by ZosoIV

[bluecrab]

If 8-tracks are still alive.....

http://www.8trackheaven.com/index2.html

then I expect MDs are going to be around for a while yet.

[Superbaldguy]

It's simple - you can use MiniDisc gear as long as the units last, the media will stand the test of time. Many of us (including me) have a lot of these devices, so we shouldn't worry for years to come.

Maybe the M200 will be a decent seller, who knows?

[Guest bugnot]

I think we can all agree that Minidisc could have won if Sony hadn't screwed up in many areas such as marketing, not allowing the discs to be accessed as generic media for computers (what little effort they did put into this was pathetic at best), not allowing digital to digital copies, blah, blah, etc., etc. This has been covered a million times before. Sony only has itself to blame by putting restrictions on Minidisc that opened doors for other technology to gain a foothold. Thanks SONY!

[Pug]

Sorry, but I thought the format war with mindisc was DCC vs MD - which MD won.

I don't think MD ever went head to head with CD. (Cassette perhaps)

Cheers

Pug

[Sparky191]

I think the main failing when discussing formats, is people only see it from the point of view of their own requirements and dislikes. They can't stand back and look at other users point of view. They can't see the flaws in the format they use, or advantages of a different format fdor someone else. Unless someone makes that realisation, theres little point in discussing a formats with them.

[bobt]

It always the enthusiasts that make the best pitches for the product though, if it wasn't for vocal enthusiasts there would probably not have been an RH1, hopefully Sony (or someone else, will still have a surprise or two for us

Bob

[Hombre]

In the early days disc were not cheap. I held on to cassettes for at least 5 more yrs. after my first MD purchase back in 94. Only by 1999 disc were getting affordable where I live at the Best Buy. For a moment in time I though MD was the future. I was only a matter of a couple of years before it was shattered. If it wasn't for the TSA swiping my disc which are not so easy to obtain these days; I wouldn't have went iPod this year. MD's sound so good when plugged into a Big Rig home stereo. I can't say the same for the iPod. Sony had their opportunity and dropped the ball.

[audioxm]

I think that MD-Recorders are not more in production.

[mdmania]

I think that MD-Recorders are not more in production.

This maybe out of this subject but I think is worth mentioning on this part of the forum. I worked at Barnes and Nobles and there was this guy who was still using a cassette walkman. I thought as I was walking by, that this format (cassette) might be a next retro thing for younger people and then at the same time I thought about minidisc being a retro as well. Everyone pretty much using mp3 player like iPod, creative etc. So I think MD might have somewhat room for being a unique.

[sinus]

Don't worry Sparky191, I understand mainstreams desires & corporations strategies enough. I know I'm always in the minority, as the few enthusiasts are here who can't see any decent replacement for their specific uses.

I'm aware of the moving parts issues, read/rec errors, dwindling hardware issue, etc...

Hi wizard.

I saw your signature. I'm a rather environment-friendly person too. (bicycle rider, greenpeace supporter, bio for food etc.). Do you think MiniDisc is environment-friendly compared to other recording and mobile audio technologies?

Regards, hannes

[Sparky191]

Hi wizard.

I saw your signature. I'm a rather environment-friendly person too. (bicycle rider, greenpeace supporter, bio for food etc.). Do you think MiniDisc is environment-friendly compared to other recording and mobile audio technologies?

Regards, hannes

Go on explain that....???

[bobt]

Go on explain that....???

The media is probably more e-friendly because if you fail a recording you don't have to throw it out, and as I said in a previous post, MD's just seem to last longer

JMHO

Bob

[Sparky191]

The media is probably more e-friendly because if you fail a recording you don't have to throw it out, and as I said in a previous post, MD's just seem to last longer

JMHO

Bob

What media do you throw so much off???

[Strungup]

Wiz , ,.......... Dude , English , French German , ...what other tricks do have have hidden away ?

[Strungup]

erm..., dutch, spanish... and wizardish, an old, old sacred language...

Dutch and Spanish as well , a true polyglot . right on . After I started studying Japanese I forgot all my German , and Spanish , it is soooo difficult .

Learning by sound only goes so far ,If you can actually read Kanji , you easily get lost because so much of the Language is Picture word based , and the Meanings of those pictures has more to do with what is said then the word itself. Gives me a headache

erm..., dutch, spanish... and wizardish, an old, old sacred language...

Dutch and Spanish as well , a true polyglot . right on . After I started studying Japanese I forgot all my German , and Spanish , it is soooo difficult .

Learning by sound only goes so far ,If you can actually read Kanji , you easily get lost because so much of the Language is Picture word based , and the Meanings of those pictures has more to do with what is said then the word itself. Gives me a headache

[son0fbob]

As someone who worked for Sony I can honestly say the whole acceptance in the American market was lost from the beginning. The first thing to understand is the americans who worked in the marketing and advertising departments had no idea how to sell or push this format. Granted Sony dropped the ball big time but I think if more effort was put forth MD would've made a nice impact. I knew some of the developers in Japan who hated SonicStage with a passion but they were loyal to the company. We sold 2 computers as far as I know with MD capabilities but you would never know if you saw the commercials. Things they developed and sold in Japan were incredible but our US marketing wouldn't even attempt to try and sell them here. I hope the MD format will last with those of us still support this dying bred.

I have 4 different players that still function except for my HiMD which won't read the media or play anymore...I suspect a poor production batch. The sad thing is can't record any music to them anymore since SonicStage quit working on my Sony computers...

How great would it be to be able to record using Real, Windows Media Player or even a simple drag and drop format.

[Strungup]

I'd love to learn Japanese at some stage! I find asian characters so beautiful... I guess I ought to run into some asian girlfriend...

I could help with that , just come visit Japan , and I will introduce you to a few ( who actualy speak english , and French) and well......

I think you need to learn the lyrics to "Year of the Cat " and you will understand.

[ozpeter]

Latest contender for the MD successor crown is the Marantz PMD620 - see announcement at http://podcastacademy.com/2007/09/27/maran...cast-academy-6/ - with an OLED display even.

[Strungup]

On Marantz website there is no mention of the 620 , Entered it into the search feild at Marantz , "No Results "

Edited September 28, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[dubphocus]

a drawing of my rh1 i did randomly, while listening... it's an ad for/against Sony minidisc

[exempligrata]

I'm a newbie poster but a long time reader of this forum. I'm more than disappointed at Sony's decision to drop the MD format. I have been a huge fan of MD even before I could afford one. After years of drooling, I finally bought my first MD player two years ago - the RH910. And there aren't enough words to express how happy I am with my purchase.

I didn't buy it because of its sound quality, or removable battery, or field recording abilities, or it's looks, or any of the many perks ofen listed by it's die-hard fans....I bought it because I didn't own a computer at the time and needed something reasonably priced to digitalize my analog cassette recordings without the contraints of needing a computer to do so. I hate that all MP3 players tie you to the computer; making it virtually impossible to transfer music by any other means. I know, there are gadgets out there that enable you to record minus a computer, but they are expensive and they are battery hogs. Oh Why, Oh Why Sony!

Edited October 4, 2007 by silent cloud

[tgc00000]

I own an MZ-RH1 and am trying to buy another one. I am finding on all sites (and directly from Sony) that the minidisc recorder has been discontinued.

Is there a new model coming out? Or is Sony getting out of this business?

If the latter, I will start buying up any of these things I can find. The MZ series is hands-down the best portable audio recorder I have ever owned.

[Strungup]

I own an MZ-RH1 and am trying to buy another one. I am finding on all sites (and directly from Sony) that the minidisc recorder has been discontinued.

Is there a new model coming out? Or is Sony getting out of this business?

If the latter, I will start buying up any of these things I can find. The MZ series is hands-down the best portable audio recorder I have ever owned.

Look in the Classifieds in these forums , I have one for sale.

[Hungerdunger]

I own an MZ-RH1 and am trying to buy another one. I am finding on all sites (and directly from Sony) that the minidisc recorder has been discontinued.

If you put in your profile where you come from, we might be able to offer more advice.

[rirsa]

I haven't been here for a long time. Thought I'd check in. I owned two MDs in the past and learned a lot about recording on these forums. But I gave up on Sony a long time ago. I liked MD a lot but the transfer issue was just ridiculous. I moved to flash based recorders when the prices started to come down, initially the Marantz PMD670 which I bought when it first came out (around 2003 I think). It's a great recorder for interviews which is what i use it for. It set me back $700 but it was worth it. At the time I had a long discussion with someone at Marantz. They knew that there was a huge market for smaller, cheaper and less power hungry models. A couple of years later they came out with the PMD660 ( as well as a high-end version of the PMD670, the 671) and now we have the PMD620. They sold a truckload of PMD670s and PMD660s for professional recording applications because they had little or no competition. Now there are flash recorders recorders from Edirol, Zoom, M-Audio etc. but I suspect these don't have the same attention to design and reliability (Marantz has been in the field recording market for a long, long time). And Marantz now has a product line that hits the market at multiple points. The quality competiton in the sub $700 market is really the Fostex FR2-LE and would you believe Sony! It looks like Sony finally got their act together. They initially came up with a very expensive flash recorder but check out the new Sony PCM-D50. A small 4GB WAV recorder under $500 (can take up to 8GB, supports USB 2.0 Mass Storage Class Device standard, and no ATRAC--specs from Sony here). Maybe Sony just found their mojo. Nice comparison chart for all digital recorders over on BSW.

Edited December 6, 2007 by rirsa

[theblueraja]

"Minidisc should have won" ?

Why is this past tense? It DID win. We're here, aren't we? It has won MY heart, and I don't care for any other portable audio format. Obviously the intent was addressing the sales, popularity, and current production but... bleehhh - who cares? I have many units and you can still get them on Ebay.

[A440]

Nice comparison chart for all digital recorders over on BSW.

Excellent chart. Very enlightening about things like battery life. But there's at least one error--it shows the PCM-D50 without a line-in. Even Sony wouldn't be that stupid--though using Memory Stick storage instead of MicroSD is pretty close....