Money no object - Which was the very best full sized MD player/recorder ?

[ZosoIV]

Perhaps you mean the 333ES, as the 555ES doesn't do MDLP.

Yes, you're correct. See what Sony's non-linear naming scheme does to one's memory?

[BigSkyAudio]

Sony MDS-JA555ES listed on eBay. Auction #230762180988.

[Azureal]

Sony MDS-JA555ES listed on eBay. Auction #230762180988.

I saw that yesterday, your listing I believe? The price is so high even if I wanted it I could never justify spending that much. Good luck to you.

[Hudson]

Wow, i never thought there would be this many posts when i start it. I finally found a full sized unit to record my CD's on, i got the 640, should be just fine for what i want.

[bluecrab]

Because of very recent events, I thought I'd add on to this thread. Just last night, my MDS-JA333ES gave it up. I had played a disc and when I went to eject the disc, the little drawer opened just enough for me to get out the MD. Things got worse from there. The 333ES has died and has had its funeral. I did not pay a fortune for it (~250 USD a few years ago IIRC, used on eBay). Around the same time, I also acquired an MDS-JA20ES, a deck that doesn't get enough respect.

I put the 20ES in the spot formerly occupied by the 333, where I have been putting it through its paces. It seems to me like the 20ES has more bass extension and perhaps more detailed highs. It has a "warmer" sound to me than the 333. I thought this would be a downgrade, but so far I like the sound of the JA20ES better than that of the 333ES. In the same system, I also have a Sony CDP-XA20ES CD player. The sonic similarities between the two 20ES units can't be denied...and they look a lot alike, as well, The 333ES and the CDP-XA20ES sounded much different.

The JA20ES, unlike the 333ES, is SP-only, so it's a one-trick pony. But it does that one trick very well! I have it connected to my amp via its analog outputs, for those who care about such things. I also have an MXD-D400 connected optically out to the JA20ES's opt in. (IOW, the 20ES can be used as an external DAC that way - will see what that sounds like soon.)

Too bad about that 333ES, but it always did make some unusual sounds on disc insertion. At least it lasted as long as it did.

[Jimma]

Is the 333ES not repairable then?

[eastbayarb]

Here is my MDS-JB930

$200

[bluecrab]

Jimma,

The 333ES may have once been repairable, but it is not now. Partly because of the the unit and partly because of my unintentional helping it down the road to ruin. In any case it has, sadly, departed in so many pieces. It was always just a bit flaky.

[Robert Janssen]

The very best Minidisc-player ever made, is the Sony MDS-JA50ES. The MDS-JA50ES is the second MD-player in the ES-series Sony produced. The first was the entry-level MDS-JA3ES, wich was introduced in june 1995. The MDS-JA3ES has ATRAC 3.5, at that time the best ATRAC verson available. The MDS-JA50ES, wich was introduced in december 1996, has ATRAC 4.5.

ATRAC Type-R, wich was introducef after ATRAC 4.5, is a bit better. You can hear the difference, but the difference is not too big. The play back-secion of the MDS-JA50ES is the best ever made, even better than the MDS-JA555ES. The MDS-JA50ES has (almost) the same converters as the famous CDP-XA50ES CD-player. The MDS-JA555ES is cheaper and not as high end as the MDS-JA50ES.

[Pennywhistler]

.... i only listen in SP, i record each of my cd's onto one MD, and that is all i will ever do. I only listen to my MD's at home so portablility is not an issue

So why don't you just listen to the CDs at home on your CD player?  I love my MD machines, but direct HAS to sound better than 2nd generation.

[sfbp]

So why don't you just listen to the CDs at home on your CD player? I love my MD machines, but direct HAS to sound better than 2nd generation.

Actually the ripping on Sonic Stage and/or some high quality decks may produce an MD that does sound better than playing on many CD decks. Not least because MD decks have very good DACs. But also because ATRAC is a 24 bit format.

[NGY]

On 2012. március 12. at 5:03 AM, Azureal said:

I took my JA20ES apart tonight and got some pictures. The unit does indeed have the CXD-2656R chip

...

Check it out:

I understand this is an old thread, but if someone could help me please, how can I see these pictures? Only the placeholders appear in my browser.

I have read the forum back and forth about the JA20ES being Type-R or not, and Azureal's quoted post took me the closest, and raised my hopes. There is a unit I would like to buy, but if there is any probability, that there were JA20ES units also made with the 4.5 chip, I would rather not chance it.

 

[sfbp]

No chance. The chip is the CXD2656 which I have in the JE630 and *that* is definitely Type-R. The next (later in time) commonly used revision is CXD2662 which was used for all the MDLP decks.

Sorry for raising this over and over, but it seems to me the only thing you get is a superior DAC. Which, as long as you have optical output and a decent amp that upsamples all optical or coax in, then for playback the JE630 is plenty. It's the DAC which makes the JA20ES weigh about half a ton.

By 'decent amp' I mean almost anything made by Onkyo, Sony or Integra in the last 10 years. I still drive my 1972 KEF Chorales with the Onkyo TX-SR605.

YMMV, of course.

Stephen

PS the main advantage of Type-R is, IMHO realised when you come to make recordings in MDLP. I was reminded of this today sitting in the car listening to some loud orchestral music play that had been recorded at LP4. I believe this is the only example of a codec invented by a music company that specifically targets music played by musical instruments. I know a little about the decoding (and therefore the encoding) where certain frequencies are specially encoded (after selection by the algorithm) so as to save bits for the rest of the music. Examples include anything which makes very pure smooth notes (such as French Horn or Organ) but is not limited to that, I believe.

So the poster higher up the list may be correct to say that, for SP-only, 4.5 is good enough.

[NGY]

Thanks Stephen.

The 2656 chip being Type-R is familiar, I met this chip in several models. What confusing me is that the sign on the front panel of the JA20ES does not reflect this fact (seems a few ES models 'disguise' their ATRAC version). What I wanted to check on those photos, if any revision number was visible on the BD board. I would not expect though such a change in a device already in series production, I admit.

Type-R or 4.5 for SP: my understanding is that Sony originally developed Type-R for JA22/33ES (I read it here), to increase encoding quality, and as none of these are MDLP machines, I would expect it being better in SP too (I can imagine though, that Sony already had MDLP in mind when began developing Type-R, and doubled the encoding power).

I took your point on power amplifiers, and buying a JA20ES is not really about buying better sound quality, as both my 930/940 QS decks are already good enough for my ears :-) . Instead, I am really impressed by the "half a ton" type build quality of the device itself, and some other features on it. Such a "tank" in my mini md "collection" would also be nice :-) .

[sfbp]

um... the photo in the service manual doesn't convince you?

[NGY]

23 hours ago, sfbp said:

um... the photo in the service manual doesn't convince you?

Ha... I am afraid, I missed your point. Which photo are you referring to?

[bluecrab]

Don't know about any SM photos, but I clearly recall that here in these very pages, a few years back, there was a discussion about the ATRAC Type of the JA20ES. Was it 4.5 or R? Someone took apart their 20ES and posted a photo of its chip, proving conclusively that it was Type R (CXD-2656).

FWIW, I have or have had the 20/22ES, 930, and 940. I do notice a difference in how they sound, with the 20/22ES leading the way. As sfbp has noticed, you could use the 20ES for a bulletproof shield, too.

[sfbp]

5 hours ago, NGY said:

Ha... I am afraid, I missed your point. Which photo are you referring to?

The front page of the service manual. Interestingly it's not in the usual place (it WAS the first type R machine) rather on the plastic plate in the middle, with writing so big you might miss it!!!!!!!!!!!

[bluecrab]

 Found the thread that had the photos of the chip in the 20ES. Ironically it is earlier (March 12, 2012) in this same thread:

http://forums.sonyinsider.com/topic/27442-money-no-object-which-was-the-very-best-full-sized-md-playerrecorder/?page=2

Just scroll down to Azureal's comment. Oh, there is just one prob: the actual photos are no longer there (not for me, they're not)...just a bunch of filenames of filetype .jpg. No idea what happened to the actual pix. But they WERE there and they DID show the CXD-2656.

[NGY]

12 hours ago, sfbp said:

The front page of the service manual. Interestingly it's not in the usual place (it WAS the first type R machine) rather on the plastic plate in the middle, with writing so big you might miss it!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I am then looking at a different version of SM. This is what I see on the front page:

I have seen the "Type-R" written (or embossed) on the middle plastic plate, but only on the 33ES, 333ES and 555ES. Have not yet seen an 20ES or 30ES with such a sign.

Anyhow, I am certainly convinced the JA20ES is a Type-R machine, just wanted to somehow get hold of those photos.

 

[sfbp]

You're right, as usual. I must have been looking at the 333ES (for comparison) and couldn't find the Type-R in the usual place then noticed it on the middle plate instead.

[PhilippeC]

What is this middle plate ?

[NGY]

7 hours ago, PhilippeC said:

What is this middle plate ?

This is the frame around the display, or on other models, the front face of the disk drawer:

 

[punkrockaddict]

All my JA20 units are in fact using Type-R Chips although they don´t show it on the front plate.

Has there ever been a JA20 with the Type-R embossed like the 333/555 do ?

I don´t think so :-)

Mine are all EU Models if that matters ?

Well.. Bruce -> how about your 333 being defect? You still got that unit ?

[bluecrab]

No, I do not have the defunct 333, I am sorry to say. Had I thought about it better at the time, it could possibly have been restored to functionality. Gone like the wind now :-(

[freddyjollo]

Hello. not been here for some time, glad to see some people still here.

were the ES decks overkill for the format do you think? came at a time when Sony/Phillips were still selling that cd sound perfect for ever nonsense?

I know they are very well made but the cost over the JB940/980 was horrific

by the way at last got myself a nice condition Sony MZ-B10 from Ebay for just £50. Seems like some people are trying to get £100+ for these.

In general seems like the prices for the nice decks 940/980 are now quite high? are people paying these prices or just wishful thinking?

[BearBoy]

I've seen JB980s regularly sell for over £200 on eBay. Was hoping to pick up a second one (or a JB940) as a spare but didn't really want to spend that much

[NGY]

On 2016. július 21. at 7:25 PM, punkrockaddict said:

All my JA20 units are in fact using Type-R Chips although they don´t show it on the front plate.

Mine are all EU Models if that matters ?

Thanks for the information, it strengthened my confidence.

The particular unit I was after got sold unfortunately (for about 80€ ...). It then removed any ambiguity.

[freddyjollo]

Best Minidisc ( forget the full size criterion ) I think it is the portable Sony MZ-B10 simply due to its internal speakers. Just realised I dont like headphones!

[NGY]

Finally, I bought a JA20ES on ebay.de, and it arrived today.

Deck is in very nice shape, no scratches, looks near new. Display is bright, buttons/knobs are not worn.

I could not resist to open it, and it is totally clean inside. And yes, indeed it has the CXD2656R ATRAC chip (Type-R).

Error display shows 36 and 183 hours of total rec/play times respectively - this is the least used deck I have ever possessed (besides the one I bought new - nearly twenty years ago).

Damage was 167 Euro, including shipping and original RM-D19M remote included.

 

. . .

 

. . .

[freddyjollo]

how do you get into the error display to show time used?

[BearBoy]

Congratulations on the acquisition NGY. Looks lovely and a great price too. 

[NGY]

4 hours ago, freddyjollo said:

how do you get into the error display to show time used?

When you enter Test Mode, select "Service", then "ErrDisp". First variable is "total rec", next is "total play.

Reaching into test mode can vary by model. It is fairly similar for the decks, and the process is usually described on the 2...3. page of the SM. I am not - yet - familiar with the portables though.

These counters are not available on decks prior the MDM-5 mechanisms. Also, some of the MDM-7 mechanisms seem not using these odometers. Some models use a third value, for the spindle running hours.

[NGY]

 

2 hours ago, BearBoy said:

Congratulations on the acquisition NGY. Looks lovely and a great price too. 

Thank you.

[punkrockaddict]

On 22.8.2016 at 3:28 PM, NGY said:

 Some models use a third value, for the spindle running hours.

afaik every Model uses the spindle motor time as for a recording it´´s not needed to spin through , just when the ram is empty it spins.That´s why one needs to count it x4

[NGY]

Did not want to open a new thread for my question that relates to this topic (very) loosely: has minidisc begun losing all interest recently?

I have been watching ebay (.de and .co.uk) since Januar this year, seeking for selected top models, and it seems to me that md deck prices dropped dramatically since then. Even the higher end devices, like the 9xxQS models can now be purchased at fairly low prices, compared to those sold about half year ago.  As we speak, there are many of 930/940 simultaneously on ebay, that was not the case few months ago, and you can get them for 50...80 pounds. Spotless 930-s sold in Germany for ~100 Euro, cosmetically beautiful 980 with easily fixable trouble for 60 pounds in the UK, and so on.

(Lower end models - 330, 520, 530, 480 - are so cheap, sometimes you can get them for the 1 euro initial bid, or a few more. I bought a couple of decks for the sole purpose of having spare parts for the future. But I still wonder, for how long will we see minidisc devices being sold?)

 

Is it really the "agony", or is this just a temporary"silence" in interest, that has to do with after-holidays-back-to-school season?

 

[PhilippeC]

Yes NGY this agony of MD is a subject of his own.

Myself I have been a bad boy and downloaded hundreds of SACD albums and now I listen to them with foobar2000 + SACD decoder or better, Jriver Media JukeBox. Good news, since then I use rather the PCM mode rather than the SP classic (I have a lot of blanks). The trend is HI-Res nowadays !

 

 

 

 

 

[freddyjollo]

well a few years ago  sony JB940  decks could be bought for very little on Ebay - I got 2 a black and a silver one for about £70-80  each both in very nice condiion. It was only the JB980 that was ( and is expensive)?  I suppose the first rash of sale was those  moving over to  solid state of some kind ( eg in their phone ) the latest spate those who think time that minidisc  should be buried atlast ( these were the die hards ) What we have left is the few who would still use wax cyclinders if that was possible

[BearBoy]

I picked up an MDS-JB940 for £70 the other day, which is a lot less than I paid for my MDS-JB980 a year or so back. The 980s do tend to be priced higher than the other QS decks, presumably as they are the only QS/ES decks with NetMD functionality.

[kgallen]

Sorry for thread necromancy. I was googling for some other MD related stuff and got caught by this thread (as is usual).

In early 2021, it seems the "lull" or "lack of interest" in MD feared above is, at least for now, abated. In this thread the JA555ES is a popular suggestion. I had a quick look on eBay out of curiosity and there is a unit currently at 27 bids and a healthy price for the seller of £640 (885USD) with 8 days to go... gone are the days for now for picking up even the low end decks for much less than £50. It seems the market, in the UK at least, is boyant!