What sony should have done

[RobA]

What sony SHOULD have done is allowed for BOTH SS and WMP 11 to be used with new walkman. The new NWZ series have no ATRAC support at all which is just down right stupid. Sony should support it's own format. What I don't get is why sony just didn't add all the this new stuff (compatible with WMP 11, compatible with DRM'ed WMA and AAC files, etc) and just leave SS and ATRAC as an option. That way EVERYONE is happy. Not just the people that wanted ATRAC gone, those that still use it and want to continue to use it would be satisfied as well. If you want to use WMP 11 and mp3, aac, or wma, do so. If you want to use SS and ATRAC, do so. If you want to use both, do so. That would've been PERFECT! But instead sony decides to totally neglect loyal customers and stop supporting their own ATRAC format and SS.

I don't get it, why didn't they just add all the new support for formats and software ALONG WITH what walkmans were already compatible with (SS and ATRAC)? What harm comes from continuing to support your own format and software, while at the same time, supporting software and formats the many others use as well?

Edited September 2, 2007 by Rob A

[socom1]

It is stupid, but we have no say...

[juli_]

It is stupid, but we have no say...

Wouldn't it be nice if Sony sent all its 'valued' (and I use the term loosely) customers a questionnaire to fill in about the things they'd like implemented before they rush in and change everything first. It could be a simple multiple-choice questionnaire which would give them valuable feedback in advance of their actions. As we are their 'target' doesn't that make sense? At least they would have some idea of what it would take to keep existing customers and attract new ones. The trouble is their products are so good that it's hard to turn to something else. It would just be a nice gesture to consider the loyal customers they have and to show that they care about what we want.

[Zizone_]

Has anyone tried SS with new Walkmans? I haven't heard whether it supports SS or not.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Zizone

[AntiPod]

yes that is the ideal solution and everyone would be happy. But i guess sony just didn't want to spend time to improve SS and atrac.

[pata2001]

Has anyone tried SS with new Walkmans? I haven't heard whether it supports SS or not.

Well, that's the thing. There are plenty of stock of these new walkmen at my local sonystyle store, yet nobody is buying them, thus it's hard finding reviews/tests on these.

[gotthat]

it's easy for u to say, but it takes time and resource for Sony to do, Sony did weigh the cost and profit, as well as the consequence of not having atrac. Cause after so many years of ss and atrac formula for dap walkman, it didn't work at all, probably only minority of people really like atrac, even on this forum u can find plenty of posts which support other formats over atrac, this is a better new start for Sony. For atrac and ss never got too much attention from consumers, it also takes investment to continue the development of atrac as well, Sony should have done this back in the HD series was out, it's kind of late to do the drag and drop non atrac walkman, but it will pick up more sale and save majority of people's trouble of dealing with ss and atrac. For the people who own the atrac support walkman, they can just continue to use it or change it

[lamewing]

What sony SHOULD have done is allowed for BOTH SS and WMP 11 to be used with new walkman. The new NWZ series have no ATRAC support at all which is just down right stupid. Sony should support it's own format. What I don't get is why sony just didn't add all the this new stuff (compatible with WMP 11, compatible with DRM'ed WMA and AAC files, etc) and just leave SS and ATRAC as an option. That way EVERYONE is happy. Not just the people that wanted ATRAC gone, those that still use it and want to continue to use it would be satisfied as well. If you want to use WMP 11 and mp3, aac, or wma, do so. If you want to use SS and ATRAC, do so. If you want to use both, do so. That would've been PERFECT! But instead sony decides to totally neglect loyal customers and stop supporting their own ATRAC format and SS.

I don't get it, why didn't they just add all the new support for formats and software ALONG WITH what walkmans were already compatible with (SS and ATRAC)? What harm comes from continuing to support your own format and software, while at the same time, supporting software and formats the many others use as well?

I said the same thing in another post. If Sony can support ATRAC via SS on the PSP and at the same time support mp3 via explorer/os x drag-and-drop...WHY can they not do this for the new units?

[lamewing]

Well, that's the thing. There are plenty of stock of these new walkmen at my local sonystyle store, yet nobody is buying them, thus it's hard finding reviews/tests on these.

I think many folks have given up on Sony. Plus, if it were not for this site I wouldn't have know about these units. Is Sony even trying to advertise them? Many folks might be waiting for the new iPods next week as well. At least with WMP we now have easy kana and kanji support. Something that SS never gave us.

Edited September 2, 2007 by lamewing

[metal]

What sony SHOULD have done is allowed for BOTH SS and WMP 11 to be used with new walkman. The new NWZ series have no ATRAC support at all which is just down right stupid. Sony should support it's own format. What I don't get is why sony just didn't add all the this new stuff (compatible with WMP 11, compatible with DRM'ed WMA and AAC files, etc) and just leave SS and ATRAC as an option. That way EVERYONE is happy. Not just the people that wanted ATRAC gone, those that still use it and want to continue to use it would be satisfied as well. If you want to use WMP 11 and mp3, aac, or wma, do so. If you want to use SS and ATRAC, do so. If you want to use both, do so. That would've been PERFECT! But instead sony decides to totally neglect loyal customers and stop supporting their own ATRAC format and SS.

I don't get it, why didn't they just add all the new support for formats and software ALONG WITH what walkmans were already compatible with (SS and ATRAC)? What harm comes from continuing to support your own format and software, while at the same time, supporting software and formats the many others use as well?

Absolutely agree, but the problem is Sony never care their loyal customers, did they?

[gotthat]

if ss and atrac continue on, then obviously sony does need to keep developing them, how many consumers really need atrac and like ss and atrac formula? not in the past as in this forum u can read so many posts favour other softwares and formats over ss and atrac, how many have their whole entire music library in atrac? not alot, if atrac and ss were so great then there is no need to move to another direction. By allowing NWZ series walkman to support atrac, then new users of walkman will obviously complain about ss and atrac, u have to change ur plan at some point, it's just too costly to keep minority atrac people happy when it's easier for everyone just use some other formats. Also by the way this innovative company from Japan is not going down at all with walkman, only certain countries may not favour sony walkman's offer and say things as if they are smarter than sony or something, sony walkman still sell pretty well if u check out majority of the regions, in particular in Asia.

[antiipod]

I think the reason why Sony doesn't want to use Atrac and Sonicstage anymore, it is all because too many comsumers, reviews and the whole DAP market just don't accept Atrac and Sonicstage. It's tough for Sony to hang on in the market with something that most people dislike. I have read too many reviews and forums that have said nasty things about Atrac and Sonicstage......If Sony allows Atrac and Sonicstage to continue as what you has suggested, then there is never going to be an end for Atrac and Sonicstage. So this certain change certainly hurts Atrac fans the most, maybe it's time to try different brands.....

[RobA]

I think the reason why Sony doesn't want to use Atrac and Sonicstage anymore, it is all because too many comsumers, reviews and the whole DAP market just don't accept Atrac and Sonicstage. It's tough for Sony to hang on in the market with something that most people dislike. I have read too many reviews and forums that have said nasty things about Atrac and Sonicstage......If Sony allows Atrac and Sonicstage to continue as what you has suggested, then there is never going to be an end for Atrac and Sonicstage. So this certain change certainly hurts Atrac fans the most, maybe it's time to try different brands.....

You are missing the pt. Why didn't sony do what would make EVERYONE happy. Support all the new formats DRM free and the new software without tampering with ATRAC and SS. Allow both to be used, don't force either one. That way the consumers wouldn't be mad because they don't have to use SS or ATRAC.

[kerfuffle]

It's impossible for Sony to make everyone happy.

[antiipod]

It's just impossible for Sony to do that, it's easier for people to actually just use other formats and softwares rather than Sonicstage and Atrac. How many people truly depend on Atrac anyway......? It's about putting an end onto Sonicstage and Atrac, it's not as simple as what u imagine it to be, Sony doesn't want any future Walkman to have anything to do with Sonicstage and Atrac anymore, that's the point that Sony wants you to know.

Do you know that it takes money and time to continue the support of Sonicstage and Atrac, and these certain investment doesn't bring Sony anything good? Sony wouldn't do this if Sonicstage and Atrac can bring them profit and selling points, instead they have brought Sony too much trouble ever since when Sony tried to battle in the DAP market. Sony wished that everyone can be like you Rob, very loyal to Atrac, but unfortunately most people just got turned off by Sonicstage and Atrac

[RobA]

It's just impossible for Sony to do that, it's easier for people to actually just use other formats and softwares rather than Sonicstage and Atrac. How many people truly depend on Atrac anyway......? It's about putting an end onto Sonicstage and Atrac, it's not as simple as what u imagine it to be, Sony doesn't want any future Walkman to have anything to do with Sonicstage and Atrac anymore, that's the point that Sony wants you to know.

Do you know that it takes money and time to continue the support of Sonicstage and Atrac, and these certain investment doesn't bring Sony anything good? Sony wouldn't do this if Sonicstage and Atrac can bring them profit and selling points, instead they have brought Sony too much trouble ever since when Sony tried to battle in the DAP market. Sony wished that everyone can be like you Rob, very loyal to Atrac, but unfortunately most people just got turned off by Sonicstage and Atrac

But they don't have to invest in it at all. I don't even care if they NEVER update SS or ATRAC again, just SUPPORT it and continue to develop AAC and WMP11 or whatever for Walkmans. Just leave the option to use SS and ATRAC and don't necessarily advertise it if they don't want to.

[antiipod]

You see the only problem is this- you may not have a problem if Sony doesn't update, plus some other loyal Atrac users may not have any issues with it, but many many many other new and old Walkman users will have issues about why Sony doesn't update on Sonicstage, why Atrac never get developed further ? Then people will get furious over these stuff and Sony will be forced to do something, this pulls Sony back into the Sonicstage and Atrac years again. Many users want to be set free from Sonicstage and Atrac, so does Sony too

Sony is a big company, once they give you something, they have to update it and develop it, they can't just ignore it, they have put in so much into this Sonicstage and Atrac as Walkman's software and format, but in the end it's not working out. It's hard to keep everybody happy, so any company will choose to do what majority of consumers want, that's drap and drop, trouble free, plenty of people have never even heard of Atrac. So no more Sonicstage and Atrac, no more nasty comments

[sdfzz_]

I'm also a big fan of atrac, and i didn't have much issue w/ sonicstage at all..

But i have to admit that most of the ppl will be happy drag-and-drop their songs rather than using SS

I think sony choose the way to satisfy most of the customers.

[metal]

I can see the rationale on why Sony ditches ss/atrac, though I'm not sure if there will be many many users demanding Sony to develop/update SS/atrac if Sony continues to support it as I thought the majority of users feel ss/atrac are evil.

But I feel that if Sony really care their loyal customers they could at least do something, say offering a free firmware update to the owners of the new players to support ss/atrac. That way, users only choose to use ss/atrac as they like. Hmm, don't think that's going to happen but I can dream, right?

[Guest Stuge]

Has anyone tried SS with new Walkmans? I haven't heard whether it supports SS or not.

Yes,sadly it doesn't.

[sharklover]

I think it is a shame Sony is dropping Atrac. The compression is the best out there. I think Atrac 64 sounds great. I just bought the A808 and E016 so I can keep using atrac and ss. I have no problem with ss. By using the A808 with Atrac 64 it makes it equivalent to a 16gb player.

[atown8605]

I can understand the critisism of ss because some people prefer drag n drop but it's kinda nit picky to say a format like atrac is crap.

WMA has drm but it wasnt forced on users like it was on atrac.

Just by accident I saved all my music in atrac and also ripped to wma on another usb drive. I didnt know if I would need it but I knew atrac was unpopular. I dont use codecs at low bit rates and at high bit rates all the formats sound good to me.

So I guess most people dont like atrac at low bitrates compared to wma or aac?

[pata2001]

So I guess most people dont like atrac at low bitrates compared to wma or aac?

There is a rough comparison on various codecs at 64kbps: http://www.soundexpert.info/coders64.jsp

Obviously, HE-AAC comes on top. Atrac was ok in its days, but it's outdated. If Atrac is so good, why would Sony co-developed AAC?

[atown8605]

If aac is so good why doesnt sony use it?

[lamewing]

You are missing the pt. Why didn't sony do what would make EVERYONE happy. Support all the new formats DRM free and the new software without tampering with ATRAC and SS. Allow both to be used, don't force either one. That way the consumers wouldn't be mad because they don't have to use SS or ATRAC.

Well, Sony could have allowed for SS support. The problem is that SS is no longer going to be updated by Sony, so some day in the future, a Microsoft update will break SS and then what? Folks will complain that SS does not work and Sony is evil. Sony is doing the best that they can. With true multi OS drag-and-drop...what is the problem?

What should have been done it remove all the DRM nonsense from ATRAC and allow the ATRAC files to be copied via the OS as well. Then you get the ATRAC benefits without the need for SS...but I really don't know how possible this is.

Joe

Edited September 5, 2007 by lamewing

[Ascariss]

aac is supported on the new devices though.

lamewing, you would still need some program that would be able to rip tracks to atrac, like sonicstage or something else, but SS is dead now, and sony didn't want to connect the new players with SS anymore.

SS was not a great program, and atrac is not supported anywhere, except in older sonys. removing SS and atrac was the best move by sony in years.

[Zizone_]

If aac is so good why doesnt sony use it?

? Sony Walkmans support AAC playback natively for some time.

[socom]

Good move by sony even though i have used SS and Atrac fine, i don't mind at all with these new drap and drop players, this is better for the walkman's future without SS and Atrac

[lamewing]

aac is supported on the new devices though.

lamewing, you would still need some program that would be able to rip tracks to atrac, like sonicstage or something else, but SS is dead now, and sony didn't want to connect the new players with SS anymore.

SS was not a great program, and atrac is not supported anywhere, except in older sonys. removing SS and atrac was the best move by sony in years.

Sony doesn't need to continue to provide ATRAC ripping capability, merely the ability to allow drag-drop of ATRAC to the new units. Future rips could be in a new format. Of course that entails removing the DRM from the current tracks.

[atown8605]

? Sony Walkmans support AAC playback natively for some time.

Sorry I stand corrected.

The only new equipement I am interested in is minidisc. I wouldnt mind a minidisc with wma and aac playback but I figure the minidisc died with atrac.

[tekdroid]

I don't get it, why didn't they just add all the new support for formats and software ALONG WITH what walkmans were already compatible with (SS and ATRAC)? What harm comes from continuing to support your own format and software, while at the same time, supporting software and formats the many others use as well?

Higher device complexity = higher costs = less profit per unit.

When pumping out millions, believe it or not, small cost differences (and less user support issues) become big returns, financially.

They tried ATRAC hardware/software for years. They failed. Almost nobody cares about ATRAC.

They don't do any open source lossless codecs. I won't be happy til they do, but I don't think I am in the majority at all.