kgallen

Oh my gawd. @Richard you must have the ultimate minidisc museum!

I'm on to your game @BearBoy, you're just trying to get your post count up to get to 11/14 first 😄

This month we've... mostly been trying to resurrect the Forum from suspension! Well done to @sfbp, @Richard, @BearBoy for persevering with contacting the owner! We're good for now, let's hope we can secure a more stable future 🙂

Indeed! These are the type I have. Sorry my photography skills are severely lacking!

Ah, I'm sure I have some discs similar to the green one at least (I think the shutter is different). However since I don't have this limited edition set, mine must be inferior somehow! I will check...

Fantastic! I guess we’ll never see an actual disc!…

Hi Dim. (ETA I should have looked at your photo in detail first - I didn't!) You don't have to buy them, you can have them for free. I probably got 10 in the PCB order and I've built one as the prototype so the others are sitting around. You other question is related to a comment I've just made on the other thread. We need an SPDIF signal, not separate DAC/ADC clock and data, which is what I think we've got. The Sony decks I've looked at have the digital data in both formats on different pins of the DSP, so probably as the Onkyo uses a Sony DSP, the signal will be there, but I don't know if it's accessible. So in answer to this question: then no, my board can't work with the clock plus data serial interface seen on e.g. the AK4524 DAC/ADC, my board is just a buffer and electrical interface where the deck already has SPDIF available, which as above is quite usual with the Sony DSPs, but possibly not guaranteed. This Onkyo probably uses the CXD2687 which is what I believe is used in the MZ-NH1 portable. It includes the integrated ARM controller. Since it's a fully integrated IC for a portable unit, quite possibly they didn't put an SPDIF interface on it? I'm not familiar enough with the CXD2687 to know off the top of my head. There does seem to be a Service Manual for the MZ-NH1 with schematics so with some study maybe the above questions could be answered. I originally designed my board for an MXD-D4 CD/MD combo deck which uses SPDIF natively internally. The Philips DAC they use has an SPDIF interface which takes SPDIF from the CD and MD sections. This is generally different to the MD decks I've looked at which use e.g. the AK4524 DAC/ADC which has a clock plus data serial interface along the lines of the test points you've flagged on your photo. But then this decks almost always already have either TOSLINK or Coax SPDIF out, so piggy-backing on that to provide more outputs is easy. That wasn't necessary - the deck is already using SPDIF natively internally, so the signals are just grabbed from appropriate vias or component pads on the main PCB. So in summary, more study of the Onkyo design is required to know how easy it is to add TOSLINK/Coax SPDIF out to these machines. Gut feel is if the DSP provides the output it should be perfectly straightforward. If it doesn't then it's a bit of a non-starter as a serial-to-SPDIF format conversion would be required. Hope that helps... a little! Regards, Kevin

Yea but why is the test point next to a Flash memory chip? Show me the DSP (which is not on this photo, hence asking for a shot of the other side of the PCB). That it's near a test point labelled XBCKI suggests this is for the DAC/ADC but conversely this is not then an SPDIF format data signal but part of the DAC/ADCs serial interface which is separate clock and data. Not unfortunately quite what we're looking for for the addition of a quick and easy TOSLINK or coax digital out...

Hi @EdinElk, do you have a photo of the other side of the PCB? Also I probably have some of my project PCBs (above) lying around - they are bare, unpopulated, you'd have to buy and solder the components of interest (all at your own risk!) If any use and you pay postage from the UK, then shout up. Kevin

That read value is so you can store the label value (there is an ‘Iop Write’ menu item) - it’s not part of the calibration that controls the current the machine drives. But ideally you’d update it if you replace the laser. The machine probably also has an ‘Iop Compare’ in the Check menu. This can be used to track drift and laser aging based on this stored Iop value. It will give you a percentage deviation and an OK or NG (no good) result. The text in the Service Manuals does take some getting used to plus working with a machine whilst reading to get the hang of what it’s trying to say. Understanding the auto calibration steps in the SM for portable devices is an art in itself! 😆 There can be up to 4 laser power settings to check - although I think you’re right, you set calibration for two (probably 0.9mW read and 7.0mW write). Your machine works. Take the credit, stop worrying, and enjoy it!

Forgive me, typing on phone. My interpretation of your numbers from the labels: Old laser Iop=51.3mA New laser Iop=60.5mA Iop is optical pick-up drive current. It indicates how much current the drive circuit has to push through the laser to get a defined light output. From those numbers I would conclude your machine is under-driving the new laser. This is good for laser life but you might find play or more-so record operations are not reliable. But… if your machine is working just fine, then just stay as you are and enjoy it!!!! To calibrate you need at least a laser power meter and ideally a small connector jig that plugs into the MDM to measure the Iop current as it’s adjusted. Within the Service Menu there is a process to go through to configure the drive current for a range of power output states of the laser. This isn’t automatic as you need the laser power meter to measure the actual laser output at 780nm wavelength. I’m very pleased to hear you took anti static precautions. The lasers are very easily damaged especially once the solder bridge has been removed. So well done! Note: 260e lasers have to be driven harder than the older 260b. But since you did a swap from 260e to 260e that is not an issue here. See: https://www.minidisc.wiki/_media/resources/kms260e_lpm_spec.pdf

Was the Iop figure for the new 260E similar to the old one? This is 3 digits on the label for example ‘546’. It will range from about 520 to 600. If there is significant difference (say a difference of 2 or more on the middle digit) then you really need to calibrate the machine to the laser. If the number on the new laser is lower than the old then you will be over-driving the new laser which will shorten its life especially in record. If the new number is higher you might have play, or more likely record, reliability issues. Good luck and well done regardless!

Our old favourite of extract and reinsert ribbon cables is also recommended. Take care to not lift the fingers on the end of the ribbon.

The CPU is not happy with some power up check. Possibly the drive is not fully ‘home’? Is there a disc in there? if there is a loading belt and you haven’t changed it, I would do that for a start.

The monitor mode is supported on all Sony MD decks that I know of and by precedent is copied by other makes. You can use whatever gain is needed to make the sound right. It’s gain in the digital domain. If you need a high positive value it implies your source machine is putting out a low modulation digital signal over toslink or SPDIF coax. If the level can be improved at the source and and the MD kept say +6dB or below this would imply better ‘gain staging’ but if your source is weak then go ahead and bump it up at the MD DAC. Use the level meters on the MD and get the signal peaking close to 0dB on the meters without triggering ’peak’.

Really for me it tends to be a non-issue because usually after a recording a disc I just whack it into one of my MDS-E12 with a keyboard and title the lot up in a minute or so! 🙂 Some CDs seem to have the track titles all in caps which I'm not a fan of...

It's annoying because I can take it all the way through the calibration process and it passes (and have done this a couple of times). But then it won't read a disc. Game over.

Any why not! In a stack I have a 520, 940 and 770 (plus a 530 CD player). Whilst I admit I tend to use the 940 most (and probably the 770 least) I do move around them, even if just to listen to a particular track that I'm intrigued with in respect of how ATRAC handled it! Plus, pah, my 909 no longer works! 😞 Being a non-NetMD kind of chap, my CD dubs are all done with a Sony MXD-D4 or Tascam MDCD1... and which, depends on how lazy I'm being - the menus on the Tascam are more of a faff than the button on the D4 (for switching between SP and LP modes), but the Tascam copies the disc name as well as the track names whereas the D4 never copies the disc name. Go figure!

The laser parameters are stored in the EEPROM on the BD (drive) unit. If the replacement MDM unit is correctly calibrated and is exactly the same type as the original then I would expect the new one to just work.

It was Aladdin. I got "lucky" in that I had a couple of days annual leave I needed to burn (use or lose), so that was those two days written off! I have done sound for the best part of 20 years and it's all my kit so in that respect it wasn't an issue - other than the last minute notification, needing to do all of the prep double quick and then running what was a lot of cues for one person (intense concentration for 2.5hrs is hard going at my age!). Usually I replace them when I get a new machine, but possibly I had this one before Charlie got those 0.7x17 belts made for us. The one I took off looked a bit thicker, so either I didn't replace it or I used some "A.N.Other" belts that I was using at the time. I guess my machines get it a little harder than your typical machine as they are stored (albeit in rack cases) in an outbuilding, where it gets pretty cold (and warm in the summer). I usually put a label on the back with the date when I replace a belt, but there wasn't one, so again, either I didn't replace it or it was before I got into the habit of labelling them!

It’s pantomime season in the UK and hence for me with my local drama group. For the past two productions I’ve not run sound on the performances (as well as lighting, set, …) as I’ve been bringing on the husband of another member to lessen the burden on me trying to be an octopus. A week before our show went up (a few days before our tech and dress rehearsals) he told us he couldn’t do the shows. The sound wasn’t well prepped (grrrr) so I had a mad couple of days and some long meetings working out and editing up the music and sound effects. As others here will know I use minidisc and the reasons are many including that doing lighting as well I don’t have time (or space) for fannying around with laptops and mice: I need a play button I can hit and the required sound comes out on cue and a machine that auto-stops at the end of the track. Hence I have a number of MDS-E12 ‘pro’ Sony decks. A pair, specifically, that handled the music and sound effects for the show, plus another as a backup that is racked with a Sony CDP-D12 that I used for interval music. I had a slight panic at the get-in (when we rig the show) when machine #1 wouldn’t eject, but fortunately was reading the disc reliably. I had chance to take the machine home that evening to replace the load/eject belt. After then, solid performance from the machines, which is what I need. No time for technical hitches with 100 lighting cues and over 50 music and SFX cues - plus radio mics, to juggle on my own. So that’s been my past couple of weeks. In prep now for the next production in May - when I’m not expecting to have to do the sound last minute, so it will be full on with the lighting and set, and the E12’s get a brief rest!

I think it's unlikely the spindle motor has failed, but of course it is possible. For further diagnostics, ideally you need a laser power meter and DVM to check the Iop and laser output. This is a servo system, the disc won't spin unless the CPU can see there is an inserted disc. One reason for this detection not happening is there is no reflected light from the laser.

Welcome! It might be blind. Find the Service Manual then find the Check entry for IOP and see if that reports NG (no good) or OK. https://www.minidisc.wiki/_media/equipment/sony/deck/sony_mds-ja50es_service_manual.pdf

Ah we have a new bandwidth budget! Happy New Year to all. Hope we all have some pleasant MD adventures in 2024!

I think @sfbp has pretty much nailed it above. I'll take a look at some schematics and datasheets to see what I can learn... In the E10, the AK4524 is clocked at 45.158MHz. The DFS value is set by firmware so I've no idea what sampling rate (44.1/48/96) is configured. However 45.158MHz/2^10=44.1kHz and that is supported by Table 3 in the AK4524 spec. 48kHz and 96kHz would not be achievable with that input crystal frequency. The common view seems to be that with decks (particularly those with "better spec" analogue sections) and the best source, then you aren't going to go far wrong recording via that route. Using a digital input should in theory give a "lower noise" source, but from CD you will be "limited" to 16-bit samples, not that should matter. Are there other digital sources that can give 20 bit samples on SPDIF/TOSLINK? (Those standards will support up to 24-bit). 96kHz sampling - yea, maybe that is relevant in the studio with a complex audio chain and mixing stages, but for 1:1 copying, nah, 48kHz or 44.1kHz is going to be adequate. Not that I'm any sort of reference expert in this field.