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A Beautiful Revelation -- the Epic MZ-RH1 Arrives

Christopher

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Qwakrz Newbie

Qwakrz

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Greetings everyone,

Geez, I haven't considered the minidisc format for some years, since the last time I purchased a mp3 player/recorder. But this unit really has me excited, I need those recording features.

One important question though: MP3 playback.

Can anyone confirm or deny the existence of the MP3 playback bug/limitation/Bull S**T? This seems to be the deal-breaker for me. If it don't playback mp3's properly, then no go.

Anyone? any inside info?

-Adam

It looks like it has better decoding of MP3. Supports 32-320K in 32/44.1/48Khz. Looks like it may still have problems with audio books etc.

Also, does not suffer from the high freq cutoff that the Gen 2's have.

More details over at http://www.mdcenter.nl/redirect.php?file=h...opic.php?t=2084

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himd_user Newbie

himd_user

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Several people here have remarked it would be much better to have AA battery connection.

What about powering the deck via USB?

What are the specs on the USB connector allowed input voltage?

Is it possible to connect +5v (or approximate voltage using multiple batteries) with a custom cable to the USB connector and have the deck powered & fully operational?

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floz23 Newbie

floz23

Posted
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Wow! I can't wait to find out more!

One more question, as a follow up.. I assume Variable Bitrate MP3 is also supported...

-Adam

It looks like it has better decoding of MP3. Supports 32-320K in 32/44.1/48Khz. Looks like it may still have problems with audio books etc.

Also, does not suffer from the high freq cutoff that the Gen 2's have.

More details over at http://www.mdcenter.nl/redirect.php?file=h...opic.php?t=2084

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dunebug81 Newbie

dunebug81

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Several people here have remarked it would be much better to have AA battery connection.

What about powering the deck via USB?

What are the specs on the USB connector allowed input voltage?

Is it possible to connect +5v (or approximate voltage using multiple batteries) with a custom cable to the USB connector and have the deck powered & fully operational?

It seems to me that powering via usb will be possible. I know its possible with other players/recorders on the market. With no extra wall plug input (or car adapter) it would make sense that usb power is a feature. Build (or buy) an R/C car battery pack with 4 rechargable AAs and that thing will run for days! Which is really good for us that record festivals and would rather spend $15 on an battery pack then $60 on an extra lithium battery.

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floz23 Newbie

floz23

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Hi everyone,

A general question, maybe, not specific to the RH1.

Hi-MD recorders, how do they handle MONO recordings? Can I record 64kbit Atrac3plus mono, effectivly increasing the quality, since one channel is removed. How about in Linear PCM mode? Can you double the capacity simply by recording in Mono.

I remember in the orignal minidisc, before even net-md, some units had mono capabilities, effectivly allowing twice the amount of time on the disc.

Sorry if this is off topic.

-Adam

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dex Otaku Newbie

dex Otaku

Posted
Posted

Hi-MD recorders, how do they handle MONO recordings? Can I record 64kbit Atrac3plus mono, effectivly increasing the quality, since one channel is removed. How about in Linear PCM mode? Can you double the capacity simply by recording in Mono.

There are no mono modes with HiMD, however, since HiSP and HiLP use joint-stereo encoding, recording mono signals results in effectively twice the quality [100% of available bandwidth is used for the mono signal].

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floz23 Newbie

floz23

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There are no mono modes with HiMD, however, since HiSP and HiLP use joint-stereo encoding, recording mono signals results in effectively twice the quality [100% of available bandwidth is used for the mono signal].

Excellent! So it would be feesable to use HiSP for simply spoken word.

What about the PCM mode. There is no joit-stereo schema for that mode, did the second generation units have mono capabilities?

This is all really exciting to me, especially the thought of being able to save my mp3's!

-Adam

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dex Otaku Newbie

dex Otaku

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Excellent! So it would be feesable to use HiSP for simply spoken word.

Having used it for exactly that, I can say with confidence that HiSP's quality exceeds that required by most people for voice recording.

What about the PCM mode. There is no joint-stereo schema for that mode, did the second generation units have mono capabilities?

LPCM = straight stereo. There are no mono modes with HiMD. Period.

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dex Otaku Newbie

dex Otaku

Posted
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Now all we need is Sony to release a remote that has the recording functions built-in.... ;)

Given the fact that many people record with microphones, that none of those mics are connected to HiMD recorders with balanced connections, that many people don't primarily record extremely loud concerts or, say, jet engines, and that the EM noise created by display remotes is plainly audible in mic recordings, I'd say that a recordings remote with display is probably one of the least useful things imaginable. Unless you actually prefer your recordings to have a constant droning bzzzzBLEEPbzzzzBLEEPBLEEPbzzzzBLEEP in the background, that is.

Until Sony starts making micro balanced connectors and all the portable mic manufacturers start making mics to interface with them, this will continue to be the case.

That said, a recording remote with NO display but simply a LED indicator [solid on/solid off = no duty cycle to cause EM noise] for recording or not could be slightly more useful.

As things stand now, the RM-MC35ELK that came with my [JP model] RH10 has the following recording features [once recording has been started on the unit itself]

* display shows REC and time with track#

* pressing the DISPLAY key toggles time elapsed/time remaining

* pressing P MODE key drops a track mark

* PLAY/PAUSE pauses and unpauses [of course]

* if manual levels are enabled, the FF/RW slider increases/decreases REC level

* STOP stops recording, DATA SAVE and SYS WRITE display on the remote

The only thing it actually lacks are rec level meters [the MC40 has them] and a REC button [none do].

When using line-in this works OK, but when recording with a mic you get the bzzzzBLEEPbzzzzBLEEPBLEEPbzzzzBLEEP unless the source you're recording is very loud [in which case the source masks the noise, which is still present].

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taper420 Newbie

taper420

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am extremely happy that the AA sidecar feature is not going to be included with this unit for one simple reason .... it means I haven't died and gone to heaven. So I'm still alive and SONY must do something to take away from this being the ultimate super duper perfect portable minidisc recorder ever. Live recording is always PCM and in reply to a previous post... while 6 hours may be enough for a single concert... it is in no way even close to enough time for a festival, as I'm sure my fellow festy brothers and sisters (how many sisters do we have here anyway) are well aware of. With the sidecar ... ONE AA lithium is enough for a festy and a half (seriously those things go for like 40 hours). Line out vs. battery for live recording ... the choice is obvious. If this thing really is marketed toward the pro recording market then I can't fathom why they would take away a major recording feature to give us a simple analog playback feature. This is truly astounding.

Well I thought it's really not that bad, I could just make a battery pack with two AA lithiums and have a 80 hour+ battery pack. There would be three downsides vs a sidecar battery pack as far as I can see. 1. The external pack would be registered as a power adapter and would not display battery levels. This means keeping track of usage and bringing a portable battery meter 2. The internal battery would not share the load and may even drain the batterypack as it attempts to recharge from, what it recognizes as an AC connection. 3. No changing battery's mid-show. While this is possible with a side car, with the unit I currently have (RH10) if you unplug the ac adapter it will not revert to internal battery and continue recording, the unit resets. That said, changing batteries mid-show will not really be a problem using this setup because a. you should be keeping track of how much juice the external pack has and b. you won't know that you need to change the battery because you don't have a meter to be telling you.

Those were my thoughts which have now become null and void due to the news of the ac adapter to 5v usb power adapter that will be powering the unit. The change from a 3 volt source means powering with two AA's is no longer an option. I've seen portable lithium USB power packs.. there over a hundred bucks but I'm sure they'll supply more than 4 festy's worth of recording time. Besides the USB 5 volt port they have a mult- volt port too that can be used at the same time... so if that can help your whole setup out, it's an option..... but that's a pretty expensive replacement for a sidecar. And the thing has some weight to it and the size is a bit smaller than a VHS tape. Yet another rediculous "portable" solution... you could drag a sealed-lead battery with you... I have a relativly small one that doubles as a carbooster... but they sure are heavy. From there a car plug to usb adapter is under 5 bucks. The battery's around 30.

What I need to find now is a 5 volt rechargable lithium battery.... that's closer in size and price to the AA's. I always wished they would come out with the AA rechargable lithium's cause I know there are some digi cameras that take a AA lithium rechargable double pack. So I'm sure it's possible. Probably one of those marketing things. So once these things get out there I'm sure we'll get more info on making a workable external pack... until then ... WAKE UP SONY!!! It's one thing after another with you. I really might have to hold off buying this because battery life is such a crucial issue with me. WE NEED TO GET A POLL GOING ON THIS BATTERY ISSUE. This is a serious concern to us live tapers (whom this unit is supposedly for). We got a poll for the car unit and home decks... I think we seriously need to petition Sony before it's too late....even if that means a bulky two battery box that connects to it through a usb wire (that's what I'll end up having to make anyway.) I would much rather it be made by sony so they can get their firmware to set battery levels for it. I think this unit is proof positive that this forum can make a difference, so let's make it happen.

Battey issues aside, I must say... my 250+ legacy recordings are screaming with joy. Hell has indeed frozen over. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who really thought we would never see the day. Hey we need someone to go back into the archive's and find all the posts of what people said they would do (like eat their hat) if this ever happened... I'm sure theres more than one.

Edited by taper420
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undesign Newbie

undesign

Posted
Posted

1) Why are discs still at 1gb? Time to bring it up a notch, 1gb isnt going to cut it. 2gb or 4gb is what its going to take to keep DAP enthusiasts coming back to the MD format.

2) Battery life for mp3 playback is 16 hours @ 128kbps. Imagine the damage 192kbps would do. 25 hours would have had me screaming for joy.

Those are really the only two cons with MD in its current state. Disc size and battery life.

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sharpsony Newbie

sharpsony

Posted
Posted (edited)

Whow, that's really great news! :drinks:

The MZ-RH1 has got features that I didn't dare dreaming of! Finally, this seems to be the ultimate (Hi-)MD recording device I've been waiting for, rather than another Walkman with those well-known ergonomical shortcomings of former models (RH10 already was an improvement, though).

Upload of legacy MD recordings becomes possible - I still can't believe it... :o It will save me much, much time backing up hundreds of hours of SP/LP2 recordings. Hope that it will also work with MONO recordings.

Although I already own ten portable MD recorders, I will surely buy the RH1 sooner or later.

The only thing spoiling my happiness ist the use of the expensive proprietary LIP-4WM battery. NH-14WM or even AA would if been the much better solution! If I wanted to buy a spare LIP-4WM (and I want!), I would have to order it from abroad, since it is not available in Germany...

So, if Sony staff are reading this: Please make spare batteries locally available in Germany and elsewhere! And please continue developping good Hi-MD products such as a DECK...

Edited by sharpsony
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Qwakrz Newbie

Qwakrz

Posted
Posted

There are ways to get 5v from a small single 1.2v NiMH cell.

With a few components and a single AA cell this chip (http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/11378.pdf) should give enough output to power the unit over the USB connector. Its small enough to be build into a connector or very small box.

I will be looking at doing this when the RH1 is released as it should make things the same as using an external power pack and you can make it run off of as many AA cells as you need for the time you want. I just need to find a supplier for the chip.

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MDfreak Newbie

MDfreak

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Posted (edited)

There are ways to get 5v from a small single 1.2v NiMH cell.

With a few components and a single AA cell this chip (http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/11378.pdf) should give enough output to power the unit over the USB connector. Its small enough to be build into a connector or very small box.

I will be looking at doing this when the RH1 is released as it should make things the same as using an external power pack and you can make it run off of as many AA cells as you need for the time you want. I just need to find a supplier for the chip.

Indeed such thing is possible. As an electronic engineer I also will look into that to make an efficient 1.2V to 5V converter. Then you can put as many cells parallel to get an even longer batterylife!

By the way, my MCMD-R1 (cardreader) also uses 4x 1.2V cells to power my RH10 when connected so probably puttting 4 cells parallel will also work (the USB-power will probably not have to be exactly 5 volt). I will check which voltage comes out of the cardreader (if it is the batteryvoltage or some electronics that changes it to exactly 5).

Edited by MDfreak
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taper420 Newbie

taper420

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Posted

Are the Energizer E2 Lithium's only 1.2 v? It says 1.5v but I'm sure looks can be decieving, do the recharables you guys are using actually say 1.2v? or is that the REAL voltage of the supposed 1.5 AA size batteries...and does this make a difference in making this battery box... for example if the the usb doesnt need a full 5v... would 3 or 4 be the right amount. 1.2 vs 1.5 would make a difference in this calculation. I've though of going the recharagable route with NiMh's but they didnt even make it through one disc on my r70 so I never even gave them a second thought or tried them on my rh10... you think i would get different results? No matter... no battery is as reliable as the e2 lithium's so it's the only one I can trust at a concert. If only they made them recharable.

Sorry to get off topic... better redeem myself... so this new rh1 is amazing huh? Here's another thing I'm wondering about... there was a rumor that the new mac models could upload pcm recordings made on other hi-md units (to the mac). I tried to get someone to confirm this and I couldn't so I'm guessing it was just a rumor. Will this new model be able to do that? I would imagine so ... if it could upload recordings made on my old r70 why couldn't it upload recordings made on my rh10? I know this will be hard to answer till we see the new mac software their going to release... just a though for any of you guys testing it out there, now or in the future.

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MDfreak Newbie

MDfreak

Posted
Posted (edited)

Tested the output of the MCMD-R1. Sadly there is some kind of regulation-circuit in the box so that's the end of connecting 4 AA or AAA batteries in series directly to the USB input.

The good thing however is: when I connect the cardreader to the RH1 and start transferring, the RH1 starts charging it's battery via de powersupply provided by the 4 AAA's in de MCMD-R1. Sadly the charging stops when tranfer is finished because the cardreader stops the USB power.

Edited by MDfreak
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taper420 Newbie

taper420

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Posted (edited)

How bout 8 AA's and then a 12 volt car to usb adapter? (or 10 if using 1.2v) I really think this ziplink 12v-24v car to 5 volt usb is gonna be my answer. That means I can take anywhere from 10 to 20 NiMH AA's and make a super power pack. Now that's power! It'll only be three to four times bigger than the deck iteself, but who care's. We're talking about professional applications here. Like 4 days in the woods with no power and your car is 2 miles away. Oh.. and the best act of the weekend is of course going on last...Sunday at 9 so those 5 extra proprietary lithiums you bought for your RH1 have of course run dry... and your just wishing to hell for that little beautiful sidecar...how you miss that sidecar. How you wish you would have hiked the 2 miles back to your car so you could recharge... but nay... the sun beat you down oh these last 4 days... the sun and everything else... curse you sony!!! Oh no wait.... I have a 20 battery SUPER POWER PACK!!! I'm saved!!! Of course a single Lithium E2 AA in a sidecar would have done the same job. SONY... WHY MUST YOU MAKE MY LIFE SO HARD!?!

Edited by taper420
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Roamer Newbie

Roamer

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Posted

Tested the output of the MCMD-R1. Sadly there is some kind of regulation-circuit in the box so that's the end of connecting 4 AA or AAA batteries in series directly to the USB input.

The good thing however is: when I connect the cardreader to the RH1 and start transferring, the RH1 starts charging it's battery via de powersupply provided by the 4 AAA's in de MCMD-R1. Sadly the charging stops when tranfer is finished because the cardreader stops the USB power.

Do you think we could use some usb battery pack like this :

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=5121

I also have seen some already made on Ebay ...

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ipellew Newbie

ipellew

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Posted

Hi all;

So Sony have revamped the NH1 to an RH1

Another chance missed to make the RH1 look like a Mobile fone and merge the two technogies.

Having mastered that, they could then go on make the SH1 a PDA type unit.

Imagine the sales of this, Im sure it would wipe out most other PDA technologies

A minidisc with PDA+fone+MD+PC_backup++++++

Regards

Ian

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taper420 Newbie

taper420

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Posted (edited)

Well I found a couple of 4XAA to usb power adapters for under $10:

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Portable-AA-Batter...1QQcmdZViewItem

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/Portable-USB-battery-p...1QQcmdZViewItem

but what I was originally talking about that I thought was over a hundred is actually only about $85 with shipping... it has a usb 5v port and an additional port for between 3.5v to 20v... it's a li-ion with 8800 mah and it weighs 250g...and I think it has a 3 level battery meter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Sony-Laptop-Canon-...1QQcmdZViewItem

IPB Image

Like I said before this would be a nice way to go if you have additional devices to power but as a replacement for the sidecar...those under $10 options seem like the way to go.

Edited by taper420
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The Low Volta Newbie

The Low Volta

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Posted (edited)

Another chance missed to make the RH1 look like a Mobile fone and merge the two technogies.

Having mastered that, they could then go on make the SH1 a PDA type unit.

Imagine the sales of this, Im sure it would wipe out most other PDA technologies

A minidisc with PDA+fone+MD+PC_backup++++++

another one that would have wanted the 'ultimate useless gadget' and seems to miss the point that before the real consumerism took off, machines were mostly intended to do one thing, but to do that one thing good...

HiMD is a recording technology and the RH1 is clearly designed for that! If you want to record, the ONLY thing that could bug you about this is Sony's choice of battery... if you want a phone that can play music...just go and buy a phone hat can play music, they exist you know!

I for one (but I know there are more like me out here) am really glad they finally moved away from that gadgetry like rubbish cameras/phone/big displays that only are good for playback,... a shame they forgot that ultra-slimness is gadgetry as well so we could all have lived with a gumstick or even an AA battery

Thank you Sony for the RH1... I'm sure it will be great untill the next generation (HiMD or solid state) recorder surpasses it again... but I'm sure it will take some years as this one was well thought out!!

* edited language

Edited by The Low Volta
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mrsoul Newbie

mrsoul

Posted
Posted

Anybody notice a HOLD button on this RH1? I really like that function and it's great for live recording to keep it on HOLD after levels are set, especially if it's in your pocket or pack.

MDFreak? Chris? Anybody know if this RH1 unit has a HOLD button? :scare:

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The Low Volta Newbie

The Low Volta

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mrsoul: for keeping levels etc, 'hold' isn't really necessary anymore as this model remembers the settings even when turned off... but anyhow I do not think they would have ditched 'hold' as it has been on every MD-model I've ever seen

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hobgoblin Newbie

hobgoblin

Posted
Posted

well well, im glad i didnt jump on the 600 offers that was floating around...

however, the price for this one will be a bit to stiff for me right now (on top of that, hi-md devices is allmost impossible to locate in norway by the looks of it).

im guessing that the mp3's will still have to go thru sonicstage...

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Andicillo Newbie

Andicillo

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'hold' isn't really necessary anymore as this model remembers the settings even when turned off... but anyhow I do not think they would have ditched 'hold' as it has been on every MD-model I've ever seen

I agree with that. I mean it is a portable recorder, so it is important that it doesn't get accidentally on when trandported in one's pocket.

BTW, The Low Volta.. what is it that you show in your avatar? is it a wc?

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MDfreak Newbie

MDfreak

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Posted

Anybody notice a HOLD button on this RH1? I really like that function and it's great for live recording to keep it on HOLD after levels are set, especially if it's in your pocket or pack.

MDFreak? Chris? Anybody know if this RH1 unit has a HOLD button? :scare:

The hold-switch is on the bottom, so they didn't forget that.

Hi all;

So Sony have revamped the NH1 to an RH1

Another chance missed to make the RH1 look like a Mobile fone and merge the two technogies.

Having mastered that, they could then go on make the SH1 a PDA type unit.

Imagine the sales of this, Im sure it would wipe out most other PDA technologies

A minidisc with PDA+fone+MD+PC_backup++++++

Regards

Ian

He's totally missing the point. And the RH1 as a revamped NH1? There are to many differences to say that. I see the RH1 realy as a third generation MD.

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ozpeter Newbie

ozpeter

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Posted

I use an external lithium-ion battery pack with my NH900 - http://www.interbatteries.com.au/product_i...roducts_id/2836 shows it - obviously not good for stealth but on the road can be used for recharging. It seems to enable at least 24 hours NH900 Hi-SP recording. I had to make up a suitable power lead - no problem - the NH1 does cause a lead problem of course - the RH1 at least has a standard type of connector.

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MDfreak Newbie

MDfreak

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Posted (edited)

Did some more testing and here are some interesting results.... I already stated that it seemed that Sony fixed the mp3-playback (which had a drop-off in the high frequencies). After hearing it I now also analysed the sound by computer and here is the corresponding chart:

freq_analysis_tn.gif

Click for a larger view:

Purple: original wav/pcm file

Green: ATRAC3plus @ 256 kbps

Red: LAME mp3 @ 256 kbps (CBR)

So no drop off in the mp3 anymore! After hearing no difference anymore it is nice to see my hearing isn't letting me down B)

MDFreak, have you had a chance to test normalization? Any problems with it?

The dynamic normalisation? That is only ment to be used during playback to give all tracks the same volume even if one track is recorded loud and the other very silent. It does not change the music itself. It just analyses a track before playback and adjusts the playback volume according to that.

Edited by MDfreak
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