1kyle Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Downloaded SS 4,2 CP. Transferred some stuff from my library @ 352 ATRAC LOSSLESS.Works great on the player (4GB flash NWS-706F). Manual doesn't mention this bit rate but it works from SS CP 4.2. Ensure you set Transfer AS IS on SS and get prompted for bit rate conversion for tracks that have to bre converted.No mention of this bit rate in the manual - but makes this now much more "Useable" for storing since I don't have to convert again to get music into the player and don't need to store in PCM / WAV as ATRAC LOSSLESS is a lossless compression.Incidentlly this player also records (analog) in PCM so you can use a microphone like an MD unit -- but you need the special recording cable and a double ended female connector to get the microphone into the device - you can use an AUDIO INif you use the cradle --but rthat's more awkward at a concert / band rehersal etc.Cheers-K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I think all of these features were mentioned before the player was launched. You may want to check out our sister forum AtracLife once in a while lol * Moved to Off Topic Section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDX-400 Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Sounds to me like you're playing ATRAC3plus @ 352kbps and not ATRAC Advanced Lossless Because there should be no bitrate mentioned with ATRAC AL. Additionally, the bitrate for ATRAC AL should be variable, not constant.When you encode ATRAC Lossless it makes two versions of the file. One, the lossless version; and, two, the lossy version in whatever you select in the dropdown box. That lossy file that gets encoded coincidentally is the file that goes to the device, not the lossless version. Now I'm not saying that it isn't possible for a device to support lossless but from what you're saying (mention of the 352kbps) it sounds like you're just transferring the ATRAC3plus file to the device (as happens with every other device) and not the lossless file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 (edited) as far as I understood it, the lossless file contained two parts: the lossy bitrate specified part (here 352kbps) AND a (losslessly compressed) complementary part that filled in what was left out of the lossy part... together they formed the lossless but bitrate specific file...hence:- the need to specify the bitrate before converting to a lossless file- the reason you need to convert to wav first if you want to convert to another bitrate without only reconverting the lossy part- the fact that the different bitrate lossless files are roughly the same size (which would be impossible if it was a full lossless file + the lossy bitrate specific file as well)and this would enable lossless playback on DAP if both parts are transferred and used for playback... but which indeed negates the use of a specified bitrate losslessbottom line: if you want to have a clearly defined concept like lossless and you want to disrupt its fixed meaning... just let sony have a go at it... Baudrillard eat your hart outPS: all of this is derived from close readings of all tthe test results posted here when Atrac Lossless first appeared... due to the fact that it really was just Atrac Useless (who ever heard of a bitrate specific lossless file...get real) I never went through the hassle of confirming any of this myself Edited January 15, 2007 by The Low Volta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted January 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 as far as I understood it, the lossless file contained two parts: the lossy bitrate specified part (here 352kbps) AND a losslessly compressed complementary part that filled in what was left out of the lossy part... together they formed the lossless but bitrate specific file...hence:- the need to specify the bitrate before converting to a lossless file- the reason you need to convert to wav first if you want to convert to another bitrate without only reconverting the lossy part- the fact that the different bitrate lossless files are roughly the same size (which would be impossible if it was a full lossless file + the lossy bitrate specific file as well)and this would enable lossless playback on DAP if both parts are transferred and used for playback... but which indeed negates the use of a specified bitrate losslessbottom line: if you want to have a clearly defined concept like lossless and you want to disrupt its fixed meaning... just let sony have a go at it... Baudrillard eat your hart outPS: all of this is derived from close readings of all tthe test results posted here when Atrac Lossless first appeared... due to the fact that it really was just Atrac Useless (who ever heard of a bitrate specific lossless file...get real) I never went through the hassle of confirming any of this myselfThe actual display on my unit when playing says ATRAC 352 LOSSLESS. I can't of course confirm that it actually IS the lossless file --but that's what the display says.Now if I transfer via another bitrate such as 352 (lossy) or 256 (lossy) then the display shows that I must assume therefore that the 352 Lossless is being displayed correctly.Cheers-K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 You could try to encode to a low bitrate "lossless" file, such as 48 or 64 kbps. You should then easily be able to tell which part is used for transfer/playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bland10000 Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) The Sony-Japan site advertises it as being able to play back 352 lossless. Could be a matter of bending the truth or maybe not...like to hear more about it.while the Walkman stick doesn't list that as an option...nor does the nw-e series... Edited January 15, 2007 by bland10000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 NW-7xx series does play Atrac AL format . ,but IMO it is useless b'coz we need atleast 30-80gb space to utilize that format .Otherwise we will have only few songs on our Walkmans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 On a HD player Lossless savages the battery. I assume it doesn't have the same effect on a flash device?Does the ATRAC 352 LOSSLESS sound any different? Any way to determine file size of the file on the player. Not that useful I know but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 On a HD player Lossless savages the battery. I assume it doesn't have the same effect on a flash device?Does the ATRAC 352 LOSSLESS sound any different? Any way to determine file size of the file on the player. Not that useful I know but still...AAL gives me around 16 CD's on a 4GB flash player compared with around 28 - 30 using standard Atrac3 @256 kbs.It's a moot point whether on this type of player being listened to on the move with typical phones whether it's actually worth using AAL compared with 256kbs however plugging the (analog) output into a high end stereo system does yield a significant improvement.I'm actually quite impressed with the quality of Atrac @256 so I was really trying the Lossless as a test.The size of the file should in theory be the same as it is on the PC (it's transferred without change apart from the encryption algorithms).BTW battery life on the flash player is fine even when playing Atrac Lossless -- I've used it every day this week and the battery still shows 3/4 full. A few minutes plugged into a computer USB will re-charge it quick enough anyway.SS exhibits an irritating feature in that if you transfer Atrac LOSSLESS from your library to Atrac 256 kbs (standard) it will create the lossy files on your computer so as well as conversion you get the converted files in the library (which you can delete however).Seems strange to me that SS doesn't give an option of "deleting tempory / work files" after transferring music to the device.I'd like to see Simple MD extended to handle these types of players. Should be easy enough as all the encryption etc must be just the same.Cheers-K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) SS is strange no question Regardless of the battery life on a HD dap using lossless is useful, because via a dock and a remote control you can use it as a source, and with something like a 60-80GB you could actually hold a decent library on there. On a flash player though, I'm not so sure how useful it is. Mind you I'm happy with the compromise of sticking to a lossy library for the time being, so I'm the wrong person to comment. Edited January 17, 2007 by Sparky191 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparda Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) I think to find out for sure try what greenmachine had suggested. And how is the SQ of the 7xx series compared to Hi-MD at the same bitrate in general? I have been considering about getting it. The color OLED appeals very much to me, as I think OLED looks awesome and of course the player itself. Edited January 18, 2007 by Sparda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 SS exhibits an irritating feature in that if you transfer Atrac LOSSLESS from your library to Atrac 256 kbs (standard) it will create the lossy files on your computer so as well as conversion you get the converted files in the library (which you can delete however).Seems strange to me that SS doesn't give an option of "deleting tempory / work files" after transferring music to the device.Cheers-KIs that not covered by the option below? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparda Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Not only deleting future transfer files is possible, but also previously transferred ones. Go to Tools, Options and then choose Advanced Settings on the left then there should be a Delete button to the right. This would delete files currently on your harddrive. Although this does not work for songs imported from CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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