Blogging about moving on from Minidisc

[Webmaster]

David Ing has a thoughtful blog about moving on from Minidisc, as seen from the eyes of an early adopter.

[bobt]

Interesting article, but for now I'm still entrenched in minidisc, don't trust mini hard drives enought, flash too expensive but dropping, plus I'm old school enough to not mind swapping onece in a while.

Bob

[rayzray]

i didn't read the article;; and won't;; i am all set for the rest of my life with MD'ism..

if there is anything worth note-ing about the article;; just write it..

i will anxiously be awaiting the "word" as i polish my 27 minidisk units (and 22 DVD recorders)..

Edited May 24, 2007 by rayzray

[Strungup]

i didn't read the article;; and won't;; i am all set for the rest of my life with MD'ism..

if there is anything worth note-ing about the article;; just write it..

i will anxiously be awaiting the "word" as i polish my 27 minidisk units (and 22 DVD recorders)..

Dont ya wish that DVD's were the size of MD .........................

[bluecrab]

David Ing has a thoughtful blog about moving on from Minidisc, as seen from the eyes of an early adopter.

Another voice for the chorus of replies so far:

Oooooooh, the pain of having to span a few MDs to fit mulitple CDs. Hard, ain't it hard!

Call me a relic, call me over the hill...but...I intend to stay with MD until it, or I, absolutely, positively spins no more.

In Linux for Mr. Ing: echo mp3 > /dev/null

;-)

[Homolabens]

The thing that keeps me hooked onto MD/HiMD is the sound quality.

I have heard all incarnations of I-pods from friends and my daughter's Zen Vision and I am still not convinced.

[rayzray]

Dont ya wish that DVD's were the size of MD .........................

my second wife said to me once :: "Ray,, SIZE doesn't matter to me"..

as is the case of bringing in a DVD portable player to the coffee shoppe or any other place;; it's BIG;; but very noticable and of course i love to flaunt myself anyplace using props..

wether it's a DVD player or TWO MD players/recorders at the same time (just for show);; i LOVE having the ODD thing in the group and DEBATING to the death how it's greater that what they have;; especially i-Pods..

i think of my MD units the same way as my neighbor thinks of his fweakin OLD cars;; i wish i could sneak into his garage and scratch them..

has anyone seen that stupid NEW itsy bitsy i-pod that can be mistaken for a stale craker..??

oh;; back OT:: i got a kink in my neck today when i heard an efx sound in my Grease recording from the movie Grease in my MD;; and thought it was a car coming at me;; it was sooo realistic in my earbuds that i jerked;; turned;; and hurt my neck.. should i sue Sony for their MD sounding sooo Realistic??

love thaat MD..

Edited May 25, 2007 by rayzray

[chrisclark]

Congratulation and thanks for such an article

Yes, I LUV minidisc, and will use it as long as possible and still pray that Sony will repent and continue deleopment. Editing is so easy. But for my off-air recording I now use Edirol-R1 to mp3 and then edit on computer using MP3DirectCut (freeware). Edirol R1 uses Compactflash; later model R-09 uses SD

Any one out there with any experience with the Korg MR1 HD machine?

thanks

[Strungup]

Congratulation and thanks for such an article

Yes, I LUV minidisc, and will use it as long as possible and still pray that Sony will repent and continue deleopment. Editing is so easy. But for my off-air recording I now use Edirol-R1 to mp3 and then edit on computer using MP3DirectCut (freeware). Edirol R1 uses Compactflash; later model R-09 uses SD

Any one out there with any experience with the Korg MR1 HD machine?

thanks

Sound Quality is awesome , I played with it , but it isnt user freindly , and you DO NOT have live rec level control from in the unit , You would have to use an external device to get rec level control on the fly .

That killed it for me

[tekdroid]

so is he happy with his Creative Zen V Plus?

Was that the point?

A meandering article, to put things nicely.

I read it all then forgot what I read...and why I started reading.

Then again it could be just me?

Also, he mentions MiniDiscs record to ATRAC (which he converts to WAV then to mp3 (!), but doesn't mention linear PCM recording as an option at all. That article could do with a lot more clarity and focus, IMO. I would also like to know how his second son (Eric) came to the conclusion that Apple's hardware is durable Joke.

And yes, it would seem we all know that some bundled software can suck, and that Apple ties-in with iTunes. Being that he buys CDs, he can do what he wants with countnless software, including iTunes. Where is the lock-in if he has the music on CDs and his HD(s)? Aside from Apple encrypting things. Get a mass-storage compliant music player and you're good to go. Was that the point of the article?

Also, Cowon and Meizu were not mentioned at all, nor was FLAC (or Ogg Vorbis), so this article gets no points from me

[kino170878]

Perhaps somebody could point him to this forum?

[Richard]

Perhaps somebody could point him to this forum?

lol - nice!

[bluecrab]

IMO. I would also like to know how his second son (Eric) came to the conclusion that Apple's hardware is durable Joke.

Well, SOME of Apple's hardware IS (or at least was) durable. Up until late 2006, I had an ancient (~1996?) Power Mac 7300/200 that I had upgraded in various ways. I had bought it for next to nothing on Ebay some years ago. It ran and ran and ran, with no sign of death imminent. But it just could not keep up with all the software changes it would have needed. Finally I had to say goodbye to it, but I do think it was substantially more rugged than Apple's current stuff.

Whether one likes or does not like Apple/iPod/iTunes, it's a matter of some wonder what Apple has done. About a year ago, their stock was at 57.27 and rising. As of yesterday it was 110.69, almost double. Incredible success and change in strategy from a company that was getting little respect and love, except from what was often perceived as a small core of cult-like followers.

I have neither an iPod nor an MP3 player, but still, from a business and a technical perspective, I admire what Apple has done.

[MikeRofone]

I am quite surprised frankly that the Minidisc.org site would have an article telling people to get an Ipod. No not surprised actually, disgusted.

[bobzilli]

Having had and still owning I-Pods, anyone who uses MD will be very dissapointed. The sound quality is lame and even Ipods lose stuff from time to time (as do hard drives in general). I missed the sound quality of the MD and have returned to it, even though I am spoiled by the ease of IPod use (especailly with Mac). Now I gotta be concerned about software being phased out so I'm gonna scoop up all the Sony gold disc I can find

Edited May 25, 2007 by SourMilkMoon

[Strungup]

I am quite surprised frankly that the Minidisc.org site would have an article telling people to get an Ipod. No not surprised actually, disgusted.

luv the Kitty , I more of a Batz Maru guy m'self,

iPod .....examine the word ..... "i" .. self explanitory ,refering to ones self , ......... "Pod" , drudges up an Alien image ( several movies come to mind) as well as the image of a bound globular mess of goo , resembling tadpoles ( Baby frogs for anyone who thinks that milk comes from the delivery man , or the grocery store)

Bound globular mess... Bound , Stuck, Trapped , Pod ........... iPod . I am stuck in a Pod ..... I am a Frog

And i OwN a Mac , but no iPod

[MikeRofone]

luv the Kitty , I more of a Batz Maru guy m'self,

iPod .....examine the word ..... "i" .. self explanitory ,refering to ones self , ......... "Pod" , drudges up an Alien image ( several movies come to mind) as well as the image of a bound globular mess of goo , resembling tadpoles ( Baby frogs for anyone who thinks that milk comes from the delivery man , or the grocery store)

Bound globular mess... Bound , Stuck, Trapped , Pod ........... iPod . I am stuck in a Pod ..... I am a Frog

And i OwN a Mac , but no iPod

LOL...It's Me & Hello Kitty, to the End...

Actually to me the letter "i" means "idiot", so that's why it can be placed in front of so many products; i.e. the idiot version of everything...

As for "Pod", the word itself makes me think of some kind of plant appendage, like for peas or beans or something...

[tekdroid]

I am quite surprised frankly that the Minidisc.org site would have an article telling people to get an Ipod. No not surprised actually, disgusted.

except it's not an article saying that. Credit where it's due, he's a guy who was trying to make an informed decision about his music player. I must admit I expected a somewhat "MiniDisc-versus-other" article to be linked here, but I guess Webmaster linked to it simply coz it linked to minidisc.org and that's how it was discovered.

It's barely relevant, IMO. 'Cause it doesn't go into a half-decent comparison between MiniDisc and anything, really. It sorta just mentions it in passing.

Well, SOME of Apple's hardware IS (or at least was) durable.

I have no doubt. And seeing all the manufacturers are essentially using the same (or similar) displays, flash, HDs, batteries, etc... I doubt there is much difference between many brands reliability-wise..., aside from the usual sound/ firmware/ manufacturing/ materials choices in any particular model..

I really was joking, btw. I know it's an often-discussed point that brings people to their sides, which is humorous As for me, I might be interested in Apple's products one day, but that day has yet to come (and I see many many competitors doing a better job than they are for what I look for in a player). But as long as Hi-MD exists, I won't be interested (which I think does more of what I want than any single portable audio device out there).

[divirtual]

except it's not an article saying that. Credit where it's due, he's a guy who was trying to make an informed decision about his music player. I must admit I expected a somewhat "MiniDisc-versus-other" article to be linked here, but I guess Webmaster linked to it simply coz it linked to minidisc.org and that's how it was discovered.

Tekdroid, this is David Ing. Thanks for actually reading the article. (It seems as though some others have chosen to comment on the article without reading it. I did try an iPod, and didn't like it!)

I actually have participated in the minidisc.org forums before, and learned a lot from the community over the past 4 to 5 years. I sent a note to the webmaster as a courtesy, because I get a lot of information from this web site, and the article links directly to some of the minidisc references on it. (There are a lot of people in the world who don't know what a minidisc is!)

Part of the motivation for writing the article -- I write a lot of different things -- was the news that Sony is dropping support for WAV conversion when I have to move to Vista. That's somewhat unrelated to the core of the article, which is about listening to playback rather than recording live music. However, I don't think that I would find much disagreement from even the most enthusiastic minidisc promoter that Sony hasn't advanced the minidisc technology as much as we would like.

Yes, I know that I could record WAV files, but realistically, my content tends to be two to three days of lectures, and the end result as 64kbps MP3 audio is more than sufficient quality, at a reasonable amount of disk space. (Getting people to download a series of 40-50MB files is an achievement in itself).

I find it interesting that the discussion has happened mostly on this forum, because the protocol on blogging is usually to respond on the blog. I just noticed some of the later links coming from this forum, and thus tracked it down.

I chose to blog to share my experiences with other people. I'm sure others would reach different conclusions -- yes, I like the Creative Zen, although it's not perfect -- and other people would reach different conclusions given their interests and applications.

I haven't abandoned my RH910 for recording -- yet -- and time will tell when I might switch. I would certainly look to Sony if they offer a reasonable alternative in their product line, but it doesn't look like minidisc technology is a long-term proposition for them.

David Ing -- owner of a RH910, NF810, two NF610s, and an N1

[Richard]

Part of the motivation for writing the article -- I write a lot of different things -- was the news that Sony is dropping support for WAV conversion when I have to move to Vista.

David, are you talking about the WAV Conversion Tool? If so that functionality is now part of the core SS application and with SS 4.3 is supported on Vista.

[divirtual]

David, are you talking about the WAV Conversion Tool? If so that functionality is now part of the core SS application and with SS 4.3 is supported on Vista.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I'm getting my new from http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=18523 .

As promised, Sony has released a new version of SonicStage with full Microsoft Windows Vista compatibility. The new update naturally is significant for those with plans to upgrade or already have upgraded their system with Microsoft’s latest operating system, Windows Vista (Windows Vista Home Basic, Windows Vista Home Premium, Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate).+++

...

It is also important to note that MD Simple Burner along with CONNECT Player, WAV Conversion Tool and MP3 File Manager will not be supported under Windows Vista. Accordingly, there will be no further updates for the aforementioned software. Henceforward, Sony's music management software for its Walkman devices will be just SonicStage 4.3 under Vista environment.

Is that information misguided?

[Richard]

Is that information misguided?

No, but the WAV Conversion tool as a separate utility became obsolete around version 3.4 or earlier when the ability to upload tracks as WAV was added to the core SS application. Only the WAV conversion tool in itself (which as I say is obsolete) is not compatible with Vista and not SS as a whole.

Edit: - it was 3.4 when WAV uploading was introduced - see here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=14137

Tracks recorded with a Hi-MD device with the digital/analogue inputs or microphone input can be uploaded to SonicStage and saved in WAV (PCM) format. (e.g. burn a Hi-MD disc, send to a friend and they can upload all contents to their computer without DRM woes; record via optical, no BS upload restriciton!)

[Strungup]

Recently most of the post I am reading are filled with

come on somebody laff wil ya

[Richard]

Recently most of the post I am reading are filled with

"free stress"

Indeed, but I thought it better to clarify the situation regarding this matter. We wouldn't want to prevent users from upgrading to Vista for fear they couldn't convert their recordings to WAV lol

PS: what is that? a scientology convention turned nasty? Looks like they are stressing out over an L Ron Hubbard book... (or is that the test - to read the book and not get stressed?)

[divirtual]

... the WAV Conversion tool as a separate utility became obsolete around version 3.4 or earlier when the ability to upload tracks as WAV was added to the core SS application. Only the WAV conversion tool in itself (which as I say is obsolete) is not compatible with Vista and not SS as a whole. ....

Rich, thanks for correcting my understanding. I've amended the footnote at http://coevolving.com/blogs/index.php/arch...nobvious-choice to reflect this revelation.

[tekdroid]

I haven't abandoned my RH910 for recording -- yet -- and time will tell when I might switch. I would certainly look to Sony if they offer a reasonable alternative in their product line, but it doesn't look like minidisc technology is a long-term proposition for them.

David Ing -- owner of a RH910, NF810, two NF610s, and an N1

Hi David

Thanks for your calm reply to my sometimes smartie response. I was going in to this article expecting more relevance on the MiniDisc side of the equation, so I guess that part made me a little underwhelmed. My apologies if it came off as a tad abrasive.

Recording lectures wouldn't need much more than what you're doing, you're right.

Nice tip from richyhu about the WAV converter. I never tried SonicStage in Vista so I assumed for some reason or another the WAV conversion process inside SonicStage wasn't working in there. Good to see it's fine...

I think Sony have taken MiniDisc pretty much as far as they can cost-effectively take it. I think we're all hoping for a cool portable recorder sharing many Hi-MD characteristics but some with some new horizons bursting forth from the slow-moving Sony. In fact, it seems like all the Japanese manufacturers are taking a back-seat when it comes to portable audio these days. Anyway, I wish more people would investigate alternatives like you did when shopping around for new portable audio.

Thanks for putting your blog in context here in the forums - it puts things in perspective. (and thanks for taking some ribbing from me

[rayzray]

is this thread still going strong?? is anyone keeping score??

*as i prepare my next piano lesson on my OLD little 505* i.e.

deviding the measures into repetitive loops for my student to learn and practice the song with..

i wouldn't concider ANY other media for this;; cause the MD tech is SO FWEAKIN USER FRIENDLY ;; and rayzray friendly..

i am sure something WILL come out in the near future that will sweep me off my feet;; but youzz can't convince me that all these blings youzz are talking about are the answer..

[bennythesoundman]

Congratulation and thanks for such an article

Yes, I LUV minidisc, and will use it as long as possible and still pray that Sony will repent and continue deleopment. Editing is so easy. But for my off-air recording I now use Edirol-R1 to mp3 and then edit on computer using MP3DirectCut (freeware). Edirol R1 uses Compactflash; later model R-09 uses SD

Any one out there with any experience with the Korg MR1 HD machine?

thanks

Hi Chris,

I've been using a Korg MR-1 for a couple of months now. I'm actually a freelance location sound recordist, also in Sydney. The audio quality of recordings in sensational as you would expect being DSD. One major caveat with the MR-1 though: the battery life sucks in a major way. My experience has been two hours recording time tops (stopping & starting a few times) - maybe 2.5 hours if you record non-stop. And, that's only recording fairly light weight 16/48 PCM with all the possible battery saving methods (eg backlight off) engaged - I've only ever used it for recording so I can't comment on what the playback-only battery life is like - the manual suggests it's no different.

It's so bad that I've relegated it to occasional high-end work or short jobs - the original idea was to use it as a constant backup (like DAT) - that job has now gone to a $99 Sony MZ-NH600D believe it or not. Because most of the work I do doesn't require high sampling rates the Hi-MD serves the purpose fine - I record Hi-SP to a 1GB disc which means I just press record at the start of the day & stop at the end of the day.

In order to lengthen recording times with the MR-1 I've also since bought an external Lithium-ion battery pack from Jaycar which more than doubles the portable recording time but it unfortunately makes things very fiddly for portable use (more cables):

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?I...=&SUBCATID=

One other thing with the MR-1 is it's bigger than it looks in the photos - about twice the volume of early HDD iPods. It's nowhere near as heavy as the volume suggests though, it feels like a there's a lot of air space inside when you hold it. Perhaps a lot a padding to protect the HDD (which is almost certainly a 1.8"drive the same as iPods).

Functionally the MR-1 is simple but effective, it doesn't have complex menus because it doesn't need them. The inputs are switchable from MIC to LINE with full level control through the menu. Recording can be up to speed within about 5 seconds of complete power off which I like.

So in short, it's great having DSD recording ability but the battery life is diabolical. It kind of reminds me on the Sony MZ-1 in 1992 - that machine could record 75 minutes to a single MiniDisc but only had enough battery capacity to record 60 minutes. The MR-1 has enough HDD space for 30 hours, but only enough battery for 2 hours!!!!

Feel free to drop me a line if you want to know anything else.

Cheers,

Ben

P.S. The North American version of the MR-1 (which I have) has a white LCD display not a blue one as seen in stock photos (which I assume are of the original Japanese version).

[dneaeade]

Personnally, I'm a M.D. fan since, well not the true beggining, but let's just say since I can afford it because I was a bit young and broke in 1992. I bought a lot of recorders, portable or not, 10, 12, i lost track but I will still use it until the end of MD times. Flash players or mp3 machines are good but the sound is never as great as with Mini Discs, hard disc things are a bit heavy and I have now more than 200 blank MDs filled with all the songs I like, so I'm not ready to change any time soon. Though I must admit that I was greatly dissapointed with Sony's last unit MZ-RH1 for one and only reason : the unit itself is beautiful and light but it doesn't display the titles of the songs, come on ! The remote is great but I don't use remotes anymore since my MZ-NHF800 remote broke down. Who is the fool at Sony who decided this. I truly regret i didn't buy a RH-10 when it came out, his large 5 line display still makes me cry every time I think about it. So I paid here in France next to 400 euros for a unit I do not use except for one thing : transfer my mini-disc wav recordings into P.C., too bad. I hope the next unit will be more user-friendly. In the meantime, i will continue to use my MZ-NHF800 until it stops spinning. By the way, this model was really something, I have it for 3 full years now and it still works like the first day, it was a hell of a machine. Normally, all of my sony models broke down after one or two years, but not this one, no. I hope the 2007 model, if there is one, will be more like it.

[sinus]

Personnally, I'm a M.D. fan since, well not the true beggining, but let's just say since I can afford it because I was a bit young and broke in 1992. I bought a lot of recorders, portable or not, 10, 12, i lost track but I will still use it until the end of MD times. Flash players or mp3 machines are good but the sound is never as great as with Mini Discs, hard disc things are a bit heavy and I have now more than 200 blank MDs filled with all the songs I like, so I'm not ready to change any time soon. Though I must admit that I was greatly dissapointed with Sony's last unit MZ-RH1 for one and only reason : the unit itself is beautiful and light but it doesn't display the titles of the songs, come on ! The remote is great but I don't use remotes anymore since my MZ-NHF800 remote broke down. Who is the fool at Sony who decided this. I truly regret i didn't buy a RH-10 when it came out, his large 5 line display still makes me cry every time I think about it. So I paid here in France next to 400 euros for a unit I do not use except for one thing : transfer my mini-disc wav recordings into P.C., too bad. I hope the next unit will be more user-friendly. In the meantime, i will continue to use my MZ-NHF800 until it stops spinning. By the way, this model was really something, I have it for 3 full years now and it still works like the first day, it was a hell of a machine. Normally, all of my sony models broke down after one or two years, but not this one, no. I hope the 2007 model, if there is one, will be more like it.

The RH1 does not show track titles, that is really the only thing that I don't like about it. But still it's the best portable Hi-MD recorder. And the RH10 does have a bad digital amp! Ever heard the E10? The sound sucks!

[bobzilli]

The RH1 does not show track titles, that is really the only thing that I don't like about it. But still it's the best portable Hi-MD recorder. And the RH10 does have a bad digital amp! Ever heard the E10? The sound sucks!

The RH1 does show track titles on the remote

[ForPete'sSake]

Hi Chris,

I've been using a Korg MR-1 for a couple of months now. I'm actually a freelance location sound recordist, also in Sydney. The audio quality of recordings in sensational as you would expect being DSD....

I'm somewhat of a novice to this, but isn't it DSD which has recently been shown to be theoretically flawed? In fact, while other factors have led SACD (which uses DSD, right?), to its decline from very marginal popularity, isn't it now predicted that this discovery will lead to its complete death in the near term?

[bennythesoundman]

I'm somewhat of a novice to this, but isn't it DSD which has recently been shown to be theoretically flawed? In fact, while other factors have led SACD (which uses DSD, right?), to its decline from very marginal popularity, isn't it now predicted that this discovery will lead to its complete death in the near term?

I'm not sure what your source is but I've heard no such information regarding DSD (which yes, is used by SACD). What I have heard, with my own ears, is a significant improvement in recorded sound quality over PCM (particularly the 44.1 & 48Khz sampling rates). If you read the technical specs of DSD you will see that it is in fact the closest digital equivalent of an analog waveform possible, plain & simple. Indeed if you begin to look for flaws in the technical specs you will find countless ones in that of PCM - Sony & Philips knew this which is why they created DSD. At it's core DSD offers a vastly improved sampling rate (2800Khz), dynamic range (120db) & frequency response (~100Khz) - in English this means more realistic sound.

As for SACD itself, it was never going to be a mainstream format, but merely a niche format for those who appreciate good sound. Enough said.

As for recording let me put it this way. If I'm recording something that's only going to be heard once for all of time & will go down famously in history (say like say Queen Elizabeth II announcing that England has declared war on Australia, or perhaps U2 turning up at my local pub to play an acoustic set of their Joshua Tree album) I'd make damn sure it was recorded DSD. :-)

[rayzray]

...... At it's core DSD offers a vastly improved sampling rate (2800Khz), dynamic range (120db) & frequency response (~100Khz) - in English this means more realistic sound. ....

i have been DO'ING sound all my life;; IMO;; who in their right mind would want a "more realistic sound"..??

it's like buying a good steak and NOT seasoning it!!!!

[bobt]

i have been DO'ING sound all my life;; IMO;; who in their right mind would want a "more realistic sound"..??

it's like buying a good steak and NOT seasoning it!!!!

Absolutely right. couldn't have said it better,

That's why I hate most of the "unplugged" albums

Bob

[MusicBringer]

The thing that keeps me hooked onto MD/HiMD is the sound quality.

I have heard all incarnations of I-pods from friends and my daughter's Zen Vision and I am still not convinced.

...that says it all really. Long Live The Minidisc/HiMD

[juepucta]

...that says it all really. Long Live The Minidisc/HiMD

If only Sony would agree with you. I've pretty much have given up all hope for MD.

I think i might get me a rack mounted deck one of these days (maybe make a nice wooden cabinet for it) and then just do like the band on the Titanic.

We are going the way of the Betamax...

-G.

[Strungup]

i have been DO'ING sound all my life;; IMO;; who in their right mind would want a "more realistic sound"..??

it's like buying a good steak and NOT seasoning it!!!!

Yes but a truly good steak , Only needs the smoke of the grill and a little salt , pepper .

Capturing audio needs to be in pure fidelity , I dont want to buy meat that has ALREADY been seasoned by someone else. Thier tastes are NOT my tastes.

I have also been doing sound , And see it from a different viewpoint than you in that regard Ray .

Gordon Hempton (The sound tracker) records in the best fidelity he can get , with NO "seasonings " just for the purpose of Bringing you to where he stood , and what he heard . So that you might be able to hear something and someplace you might Never have gotten to go .

The same with ANY Nature Recordists Goal , is to have absolute fidelity of that moment in time. Just like the Photos you take of those grandkids running around , ....Why would you want to alter , that expression on her face as she has it buried halfway into a watermelon mess ?

Just a thought ,......the "seasoning is ALways Post processing.

[rayzray]

Yes but a truly good steak , Only needs the smoke of the grill and a little salt , pepper .

Capturing audio needs to be in pure fidelity , I don't want to buy meat that has ALREADY been seasoned by someone else. Thier tastes are NOT my tastes.

I have also been doing sound , And see it from a different viewpoint than you in that regard Ray .

Gordon Hempton (The sound tracker) records in the best fidelity he can get , with NO "seasonings " just for the purpose of Bringing you to where he stood , and what he heard . So that you might be able to hear something and someplace you might Never have gotten to go .

The same with ANY Nature Recordists Goal , is to have absolute fidelity of that moment in time. Just like the Photos you take of those grandkids running around , ....Why would you want to alter , that expression on her face as she has it buried halfway into a watermelon mess ?

Just a thought ,......the "seasoning is ALways Post processing.

you are 90 % right;; but unfortunately my 10% rules in my circle of influence..

you are the 90% of the NORMAL population and with great credentuals (sp) *i hate that fweakin word*..!!

i think of myself as an abstract artist more than an normal conniseur (sp) of music;; and of course an abstract sound butcher..

when i remix for my piano students;; they get my abstract impersonation and what makes the real world click;; IMAGINATION!!

if they want normal piano lessons;; i tell them to replace me with a boring piano teacher that does it the "Proper" way..

yes,, your method is the proper way;; just like all the bands in my location played all the song (The Proper Way);; the perfect "Cover";; wow,, we can sound like the "Original";; yet they stayed in a club 3 to 4 weeks;; i stayed in they same club for months cause i seasoned my music..

even though you win;; i am happier and happiness rules;; and in my small state here of RI;; everyone know who is the happiest..

but,, then;; my favorite song is Creep by Radiohead;; like my theme song ( am that creep;; i am THE creep);; but my version is seasoned and with a little salt and peppa;; i like to loop the "F" word since it ONLY plays 3 times..

someday we must meet over a cup of coffee or Japaneese tea (or is it Chineese tea) and discuss this..

i can't pull myself to listen to Normal music;; i MUST salt and peppa it and IMO;; your "Smoke" in the smoked steak IS a form of seasoning;; you answered your own question;; you would NOT eat a perfect steak without "smoking" it;; that makes me a 20% winner and you,, an 80% winner;; we are all winners as long as our products end up in a MD/Hi-MD playa;; theya;; saya;; waya..!!

late edit]] oh,, by the way;; my family always complains when i season and salt and peppa the family photos;; yes;; i add mucho efx here and there;; and keep just enough of original to keep them from hammering me.. yes;; i even smoke and butcher the family pics;; poor kids;; sometimes i even make them look a bit bettah!!

Edited June 26, 2007 by rayzray

[superboy]

You know, a lot of mindisc people react way too unreasonably to any kind of criticism about the MD. Let's face it, there are many good reasons why the mindisc isn't as popular as the ipod or pretty much any other big name player out there. I love mindisc, and use it almost exclusively, but there are lots of things that other players are better for.

Honestly, you take out the MD's superb recording abilities, and you pretty much take out the only good reason that makes the MD better than the ipod or a flash player, or whatever. And not that many people need a recorder, so that's a real small niche. How about the argument that eh MD discs are encased in a hard plastic shell. Sure, that's nice and indestructible, but is it really that big a deal? No. How about that the discs are under $10 for 1 GB, compared to flash memory, which will be at least twice as much? Again, not that big a deal, especially considering how flash memory is so much easier to find. Flash is also much smaller than a MD disc.

Also, ipods and other players are much easier to navigate than a minidisc player. They have better screens that display more information, and it's easier to go through your songs. It's also easier to transfer music to the player than Sony's SonicStage. Itunes may be bad, but it's way better than SonicStage (even though that's not saying much).

So, bottom line is that unless you are looking for a portable recorder, there's really no good reason to get a MD unit. Some people just think MD's are cool, but that's purely aesthetic and subjective. Personally, I think my HiMD player is way cooler than anything else, but it's not the reason why I bought it. I bought it because it records very well and other players don't. That's it. There is no other practical area where the MD is better than the average ipod or player out there.