HiMD future without Sonic Stage?

[lamewing]

Just a few quick questions....

When Sony phases out Sonic Stage completely (after March 2008) what will happen to HiMD if a future Windows update breaks Sonic Stage? How will someone be able to upload recordings to the PC other than in real time? Does the end of Sonic Stage only include the West or is it being phased out in Japan as well? I was looking at the RH1 for recording classes and also to support my Japanese studies, but after reading about the end of Sonic Stage, I am unsure if this would be a decent purchase.

I realize the unit doesn't need the PC to work, but I need the PC support. I haven't tried the HiMD renderer software. Also, can the RH1 upload to the PC/Mac without software support? Anyone expect a firmware update to allow this? Thanks.

Joe

Edited September 8, 2007 by lamewing

[sector001]

i think u be better off getting a flash recorder instead...

[A440]

The Connect store is closing down in March 2008. But as the ATRAClife site reported, Sony claims that SonicStage will still be updated.

http://www.atraclife.com/forums/index.php?...amp;#entry27240

http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowArticle.act...;site=odw_en_GB

"If you currently own a WALKMAN® everything will remain exactly the same. So you can still enjoy unbelievable sound quality, long battery life and great looks.

And you’ll continue to use the SonicStage digital music management platform to organise audio tracks and synchronise your music player.

SonicStage will still be updated so you can always keep your WALKMAN® up to date. And buying music from the Sony Connect Music Store will still be possible until at least March 2008."

But it would be so much better if Sony just revealed the encryption methods in SonicStage, made it open source, and let us all unlock the music in SonicStage once and for all.

Edited September 8, 2007 by A440

[Strungup]

Just a few quick questions....

When Sony phases out Sonic Stage completely (after March 2008) what will happen to HiMD if a future Windows update breaks Sonic Stage? How will someone be able to upload recordings to the PC other than in real time? Does the end of Sonic Stage only include the West or is it being phased out in Japan as well? I was looking at the RH1 for recording classes and also to support my Japanese studies, but after reading about the end of Sonic Stage, I am unsure if this would be a decent purchase.

I realize the unit doesn't need the PC to work, but I need the PC support. I haven't tried the HiMD renderer software. Also, can the RH1 upload to the PC/Mac without software support? Anyone expect a firmware update to allow this? Thanks.

Joe

It will upload to Mac , with MD Tansfer 2.0 , and will be imported as standard wav files , instead of encoded ATRAC. NO DRM ...

It will not upload Optical PCM recordings , but all Hi MD Line or Mic recordings (HiSP,HiLP,PCM) will get imported as WAV , so whatever editor you wish to use or MP3 converter you wish to use wil work fine .

It seems that, that is the One intelligent thing Sony did , and it should have been done for both Systems Win/Mac to be equally fair .

But this is one area where the Mac has the edge over Windows

I am on a Macbook Pro by the way .

Edited September 8, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[ILoveMinidisc]

I was thinking about getting a MZ-Rh10 before end of 2007

but considering Sonicstage is Ending (maybe be updating a bit but not last forever)

Does this means RH 1 is the only one that will work if Sonicstage ends?

or is sonicstage still needed for RH1 too?

In anycase maybe this means Sony will release some MDs like drag and drop

or something.....

I think is in October or November The 15th Aniversary of Minidisc

if sony Ever will release more Mds we will know very soon (actualy we should have know by now but it can be

aniversary editions anouncement comes later)

Actually i would have get an RH1 if it wasnt that the unit dosnt display the Names

i dont like carry the remote with me always and Long time ago i finished writing the song names on the Md cards

So hope Sony comes up with something better

Maybe a Color screen Minidisc or something with a big touch screen like iphone

if it was expensive i would buy it

as long as quality is top.

Until then i probaly go import a Rh10

Edited September 8, 2007 by ILoveMinidisc

[BIGHMW]

Maybe a Color screen Minidisc or something with a big touch screen like iphone

if it was expensive i would buy it

as long as quality is top.

Until then i probaly go import a Rh10

Hey dude, if you want a color-screen or equivalent Hi-MD Walkman, and one with one-megapixel photo taking capability, go for the DH10 instead, although I would also go for an RH10 for the line and mic inputs that the DH10 does not have, as well as its clip-on "AA" battery capability.

As for a 15th anniversary edition or something, I believe Sony owes US someting for our decade-and-a-half of loyalty to the format, yes. Preferably a Hi-MD deck (car, pro, or home), and perhaps one last Walkman unit as well (at a typical Sony premium price) or better than even that, a Magic Gate/DRM-free version of SonicStage, as an available special 15th anniversary limited edition (free for those who purchased the RH1 in the past year, with proof of receipt, of course) or at a good price to lure the rest of us in to getting 2 or 3 discs of it.

[theblueraja]

I believe Sony owes US someting for our decade-and-a-half of loyalty to the format, yes....

LOL!! While I agree with you, Sony certainly doesn't "OWE" us ANYTHING. You seem to forget that they are not very market-focused other than trying to make money at the EXPENSE of us. Do you see Sony sending $100 to all the 'suckers' who bought ATRAC walkmans this year like Apple did for the phones?

[BIGHMW]

Do you see Sony sending $100 to all the 'suckers' who bought ATRAC walkmans this year like Apple did for the phones?

I belive that the corporate monopoly known as AT&T is mostly responsible for the price-gouging for Apple's iPhone, as they are the exclusive cell phone provider for that piece of crap.

Also, Apple is at fault too, as they made it impossible for independent "mom and pop" stores to carry their phones, as only authorized Apple stores (none here in Port Townsend, or Port Angeles or anywhere else here on the Olympic Peninsula for that matter) had the right to carry it, so I think that you can blame not only Apple for this, but also AT&T (the worst cell phone service in America, as I use Verizon myself), becuase of their little exclusivity scheme, until the guy who knows how to hack the iPhone reveals the code (similar to the NW/MD Walkman volume/EQ hack I believe), this gouging will continue, as AT&T and Apple know that if the codes become public, than all of us Verizon, T-Mobile, Alltel and Sprint/Nextel users will be able to join in to the iPhone craze as well.

[theblueraja]

I belive that the corporate monopoly known as AT&T is mostly responsible for the price-gouging for Apple's iPhone, as they are the exclusive cell phone provider for that piece of crap.

Also, Apple is at fault too, as they made it impossible for independent "mom and pop" stores to carry their phones, as only authorized Apple stores (none here in Port Townsend, or Port Angeles or anywhere else here on the Olympic Peninsula for that matter) had the right to carry it, so I think that you can blame not only Apple for this, but also AT&T (the worst cell phone service in America, as I use Verizon myself), becuase of their little exclusivity scheme, until the guy who knows how to hack the iPhone reveals the code (similar to the NW/MD Walkman volume/EQ hack I believe), this gouging will continue, as AT&T and Apple know that if the codes become public, than all of us Verizon, T-Mobile, Alltel and Sprint/Nextel users will be able to join in to the iPhone craze as well.

Ok, fine, bad analogy... at least Apple didn't DITCH their own codec!

[BIGHMW]

... at least Apple didn't DITCH their own codec!

True indeed. Everybody on both this board and over at the ALC (with the possible exceptions of perhaps Cindy Margolis as well as the other many naive iSheep out there) knows that ATRAC/3/3Plus is a superior codec compared to MP3, AAC, WMA, or other lossy formats of compression.

Hey, but word does get around, so fear not, someone out there will take over the support for ATRAC compression, long after Sony ditches it (and us) as long as there are millions of loyal fans of it.

There are other users of it besides all of us MD and Hi-MD owners, i.e.: ATRAC CD Walkman users (I myself own a couple of D-NE700 units in addition to my lineup of MD and Hi-MD Walkmans and decks), as well as the many Network Walkman users also enjoy the many superior benefits of the ATRAC family of codecs, such as superior sound quality especially at high compression rates (try standing to listen to MP3 in 64K as compared to ATRAC3Plus at that same rate!) in which the highs don't fizzle on you, and the dynamic range and clarity is as high as in legacy ATRAC 292K (MiniDisc in SP mode).

Edited September 8, 2007 by BIGHMW

[Sparky191]

Must be nice living in your own fantasy land.

[theblueraja]

Must be nice living in your own fantasy land.

I'm enjoying it.

[BIGHMW]

Must be nice living in your own fantasy land.

We all do basically, by owning and running our MD and Hi-MD units, for we are powered by The Source, and are superior to the ones we call the iSheep, and together we will stand as one with this one united slogan:

"ATRAC or DEATH!!!"

[mmp64]

True indeed. Everybody on both this board and over at the ALC (with the possible exceptions of perhaps Cindy Margolis as well as the other many naive iSheep out there) knows that ATRAC/3/3Plus is a superior codec compared to MP3, AAC, WMA, or other lossy formats of compression.

I don't think ATRAC is a superior codec. I think Sony makes superior hardware.

[bobzilli]

Maybe the hardware is the key, but I've always enjoyed the Atrac sound ( though not the grief involved with SS or even Connect) over any of the other formats (MP3 etc). I fiigure that Atrac lovers will be a rare few like Md fans and envision people looking for old hardware on Ebay to support the format for years to come-though in minute numbers

[Strungup]

For me the Atrac sound is the closet thing to Analouge , minus the noise , it has a Warmer feel to than most digital medium , and it is the best balance bertween Uncompressed and Portable .

That is partly due to the hardware , and Codec

[Richard]

* Topic Moved to Hi-/MD Evaluations + Critiscisms section

[mmp64]

I fiigure that Atrac lovers will be a rare few like Md fans and envision people looking for old hardware on Ebay to support the format for years to come-though in minute numbers

Yes, I think you are correct. It could go on for another 10 years - until the various devices begin to die out (which I suppose is already happening).

[BIGHMW]

For me the Atrac sound is the closet thing to Analouge , minus the noise , it has a Warmer feel to than most digital medium , and it is the best balance bertween Uncompressed and Portable .

That is partly due to the hardware , and Codec

Another believer in The Source, mainly from the one who started it all.

As for hardcore ATRAC users and fans being in small but very loud numbers, I guess it's just like either the National Hockey League (and ESPN always cracks a joke saying "nobody's watching anyway".... B.S.!) or the Professional Bowlers Association on TV (Sundays on ESPN going up against the NFL in the same time at the 1 pm ET/10 am PT slot), there ARE fewer of us who enjoy them, but, we are the most passionate, the most outspoken, and also, the most loyal supporters of our format, til the better end or the bitter end.

BTW, I have been a huge PBA bowling fan since I was a kid (when it was on ABC on Saturday afernoons), and a bigger NHL and Los Angeles Kings hockey fan since 1975 when I was growing up in L.A.

Some things just aren't worth sticking a fork in quite yet (too early), but how long will the time be, only time and we will tell that.

Edited September 9, 2007 by BIGHMW

[Strungup]

More of a Billiards Fan , and formula 1 , Grand Prix fan myself .

As for Billiards , .......... I am a One Pocket player , of a higher caliber .

I used to like US Football , but that was way back when it was a Game , and not a Business. Guy's make more money in 1 day now than we will see in our lifetime. Disgusting .

But to Atrac , it most definately sounds better than Itunes AAC , after a more carefull listen last night of Wish You Were Here , that I just downloaded from Itunes , I was dissappointed , gotta go buy the Vinyl

[stim]

hi, this is my first post, and i have joined up because i have seen the recent news about Sony dropping the Connect , but i am slightly confused by what i am reading on the boards and the net in general.

I have over 130GB of music in ATRAC3 format, 100GB of which is CD rips in ATRAC 320Kbps quality or better and the rest is converted MP3s, mostly long plays, like 'essential mixes' etc. ATRAC is, in my opinion, one of the better codecs out there, but i guess at the higher bit rates, they all sound pretty similar. I don't use lower bit rates, even on my 4GB NW-E016F, i only carry about 30 CD rips, in full quality. I actually really hate the fact that with the 'new' digital approach, quality is being sacrificed. (I was forced to by something from itunes the other day as the label only released to them and i found that a) itunes sucks compares to sonicstage - it's just designed for millions of single songs, b.) it's nearly all 128kbps downloads - i can't understand how the thing has got so popular! I actually get all my online music from MP3Sparks.com, where u can download in upto FLAC quality if needed.

But anyway, i am under the impression that Sony is dropping Connect, no big loss, as i never used it to buy music from anyway, but i don't believe they will be dropping SonicStage, and if they don't drop SonicStage then they probably won't drop the ATRAC format? Or am i missing something?

I have SonicStage installed on my shuttle in the front room, connected to my HD LCD TV and it works PERFECTLY as a jukebox, itunes doesn't display the covers as well as SonicStage IMO. Also, ATRAC and SonicStage can play all my CDs (which are nearly all 'mixed' cd's) with no track breaks, now as i understand, mp3's always have track breaks, that would be a disaster for me.

I like SonicStage and i think a lot of people out there do to...in fact i would imagine most people left on earth who arent sheep and have an ipod would give it a go. (That's just one of the reasons i would NEVER buy an ipod - why be the same as EVERYONE else on Earth, when there are alternative small, higher quality devices available).

So does anyone actually know, for definite, the future of SonicStage or is it just all speculation after the press release concerning the dropping of CONNECT?

(If Sony is reading this, please keep SonicStage, oh, and can you make it so that the screen saver can come on while SonicStage is loaded - my only niggle!)

stim.

I own: NW-HD1 (although don't use it much now)

and... NW-E016F (used daily with my Ultimate Ears Super-Fi Pro 5 Headphones).

Edited September 14, 2007 by stim

[Sparky191]

...But to Atrac , it most definately sounds better than Itunes AAC , after a more carefull listen last night of Wish You Were Here , that I just downloaded from Itunes , I was dissappointed , gotta go buy the Vinyl

I think its a bit pointless worrying which codec is less brutal at low bitrates like the ones you get from iTunes. If you want decent SQ use high bitrate or lossless. End of.

...itunes sucks compares to sonicstage - it's just designed for millions of single songs, b.) it's nearly all 128kbps downloads - i can't understand how the thing has got so popular! I actually get all my online music from MP3Sparks.com, where u can download in upto FLAC quality if needed.

Most people aren't interested in SQ. Thats the simple truth. Personally I can't stand DRM and low quality. Buying 2nd hand CD's is a better deal alround. MP3Sparks.com is not really legal. At best you could say its a grey area.

...itunes doesn't display the covers as well as SonicStage IMO. Also, ATRAC and SonicStage can play all my CDs (which are nearly all 'mixed' cd's) with no track breaks, now as i understand, mp3's always have track breaks, that would be a disaster for me.

You mean gapless. Doesn't bother me, but I can see why it would. Pity other codec aren't as good as ATRAC with gapless. Are Sonys' other walkmen (non HiMD/MD) gapless with ATRAC?

Out of curiosity whats the different in the album art?

I like SonicStage and i think a lot of people out there do to...in fact i would imagine most people left on earth who arent sheep and have an ipod would give it a go. (That's just one of the reasons i would NEVER buy an ipod - why be the same as EVERYONE else on Earth, when there are alternative small, higher quality devices available).

...

I don't really like how iTunes or SonicStage work. But I can use either without any problems. But I would say both applications are poorly designed and have too limited features for no good reason. SonicStage was very badly written and buggy for a long time. Though its ok now. Theres still major bugs in it like the problem with ATRAC Lossless being useless.

[theblueraja]

I think its a bit pointless worrying which codec is less brutal at low bitrates like the ones you get from iTunes. If you want decent SQ use high bitrate or lossless. End of.

End of? Not really... I bought an iPod and ripped to lossless and it STILL sounded like crap to me. Hence I returned it and stuck with ATRAC. I've discovered there are two other factors many overlook when comparing bitrates, etc: 1) the UNIT itself has its own sound to a degree (be it an am, even independent of the earphones, etc.) and 2) your EARS!! People hear things differently and have different tastes for what they consider to sound best.

[Strungup]

I dont mind using iTunes , for Playing media and organising . Also I have it integrated with DIVX , so that when I use the Front Row ( with Apple Remote) I can watch Divx movies , Concerts , whatever ( almost 300 gb worth at the moment ) . But as for Downloading from iTunes store , I will not be buying ANYTHING from them again , the sound was horrible. I agree with the second hand CD thing , that makes it fun , the challenge of finding it .

As for the iPod , I entertained the thought on the new classic , but have decided against it , the sound issue remains , I have read the reviews , the Alternative I am looking at is the Cowon D2 , it has SD slot , and 4 gb , touch screen interface etc, but what has my attention is the file formats it WILL play , the fact that it works with the Mac as an external drive , so no software required , and the 95 db S/N that is pretty nice .

iTunes is fine for organisation , but that will be all I use it for , and Poadcasts.

[stim]

Out of curiosity whats the different in the album art?

Ok, i'll try and explain the album art.

In SonicStage i have ripped my CDs into various Genre's, for example 'Breaks, Beats & Bass', 'General Electronic', 'Renaissance', 'Hard Dance' etc etc (as you might tell i'm into my beats!). I fill out all the information in the 'album properties' dialogue box so that all the albums in a certain genre are listed in the date they were released and make sure they all have album art etc. (i actually believe one of the reasons that SonicStage gets such bad reviews is that people don't fill out the information in the 'Album Properties' dialogue box which causes tracks to sometimes go astray, and can make SS difficult to initally understand).

In SonicStage i then do a 'View'>'Sort By'>'Genre'

and also do a 'View'>Album>'Icons (All Categories)'

This gives me a view with all off my albums in a little 1.5cm/sq box (probably larger on the TV), rather than the list/details view. You also get a list down the left side of the album window so i can quickly jump to whichever 'Genre' i want.

Having these small 1.5cm/sq boxes literally covering the majority of the screen mean that i can quickly and easily see my music. It enables album art in a size to be useful when quickly selecting and is much nicer on the eye than the 'Details' view. I know that itunes does offer a list, larger-icon and also page size view of albums, but when you have over 400 CDs ripped into SonicStage, anything larger than the 1.5cm/sq would just take years to search through. IMO, i have it on the best view for my needs.

I will have to get a screenshot from home to show what i mean if i'm not making sense.

(Soz, yes i meant gapless play - nearly all (95%) of my stuff is gapless, and when it's a mix, the jumps are irritating - it's meant to flow from start to finish).

(Yes both my HD and Flash stick Walkmans are gapless play as well as my old minidisc player, and obviously SS on the PC plays in gapless too)...

Most people aren't interested in SQ. Thats the simple truth. Personally I can't stand DRM and low quality. Buying 2nd hand CD's is a better deal alround. MP3Sparks.com is not really legal. At best you could say its a grey area.

I wish people were concerned about sound quality - they're missing out so much! Like the kids who listen through a speakerphone mobile at the back of the bus - i used to get better quality out of plastic fontopia headphones and a tape walkman than the noise those things make!

MP3Sparks.com..... oops...

Edited September 14, 2007 by stim

[Sparky191]

Ok, i'll try and explain the album art. ...

In SonicStage i then do a 'View'>'Sort By'>'Genre'

and also do a 'View'>Album>'Icons (All Categories)'

This gives me a view with all off my albums in a little 1.5cm/sq box (probably larger on the TV), rather than the list/details view. You also get a list down the left side of the album window so i can quickly jump to whichever 'Genre' i want. ...

Interesting idea. Thanks for explaining it. Personally I find cover flow and searching music via album art little more than a gimmick. More fun that really useful. Some people obviously love it seeing how people rant about cover flow. I guess I'd be interested in trying it. Viewing album art in icon size is a feature I've never heard of. Have you seen that feature in any other manager/player? I generally use MediaMonkey. I see someones written a album art plug in for it. http://www.oiltinman.com/plugins/PrettyPictures/ But as it doesn't support ATRAC thats pretty useless for you.

http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13505

(Yes both my HD and Flash stick Walkmans are gapless play as well as my old minidisc player, and obviously SS on the PC plays in gapless too)...

What ones?

Edited September 15, 2007 by Sparky191

[poe]

The cover feature the way it's described above is how I use Sonic Stage. I've tried to find a way to have lossless music in this format and I haven't found a program yet. I have to agree that it is a really nice way to sort through your music. Just my thoughts, POE.

[Sparky191]

The cover feature the way it's described above is how I use Sonic Stage. I've tried to find a way to have lossless music in this format and I haven't found a program yet. I have to agree that it is a really nice way to sort through your music. Just my thoughts, POE.

You could use WMA Lossless in SonicStage but you lose gapless. You could use Atrac Lossless if you were happy with its limitation of only one lossy bitrate. If you have the space you could use WAV but you lose ID tags.

[poe]

I have tried WMA Lossless and as you pointed out no gapless. Also, Sonic Stage scrambles albums with songs with different artists names, this was really annoying. POE.

[Sparky191]

I have tried WMA Lossless and as you pointed out no gapless. Also, Sonic Stage scrambles albums with songs with different artists names, this was really annoying. POE.

What happens when you tags the tracks as compilation?

[atrain]

i also use the icon view in view albums sort by artist mode.

sonicstage is probably the best by album rather than by song jukebox i've ever used.

i guess i'm waiting to see how songbird turns out, i like the user extensions idea.

http://www.songbirdnest.com

[theblueraja]

i also use the icon view in view albums sort by artist mode.

sonicstage is probably the best by album rather than by song jukebox i've ever used.

i guess i'm waiting to see how songbird turns out, i like the user extensions idea.

http://www.songbirdnest.com

are you actually thinking this songbird thing is going to play ATRAC and support transfers to an MD player??

[stim]

What ones?

I own: NW-HD1 (although don't use it much now)

and... NW-E016F (Black) (used daily with my Ultimate Ears Super-Fi Pro 5 Headphones).

You could use WMA Lossless in SonicStage but you lose gapless. You could use Atrac Lossless if you were happy with its limitation of only one lossy bitrate. If you have the space you could use WAV but you lose ID tags.

What's the issue with the ATRAC Lossless? - i actually don't use it, but find that anything from 320Kbps upwards is bordering on the limits of what my ears can pick up, so tends to be good enough...

I have tried WMA Lossless and as you pointed out no gapless. Also, Sonic Stage scrambles albums with songs with different artists names, this was really annoying. POE.

Exactly my point of filling out the 'Album Properties' dialogue box - it can loose tracks everywhere if this isn't filled out properly (checking the 'compilation' tick box tends to keep them together).

Edited September 17, 2007 by stim

[theblueraja]

What's the issue with the ATRAC Lossless? - i actually don't use it, but find that anything from 320Kbps upwards is bordering on the limits of what my ears can pick up, so tends to be good enough...

It's my understanding that ATRAC lossless doesn't exist beyond the computer itself... correct me if I'm wrong, anyone. Since I don't listen to tunes on my computer, I'll stick to good ol' ATRAC3 at 132kbps for my MD transfers.

Edited September 17, 2007 by theblueraja

[atrain]

are you actually thinking this songbird thing is going to play ATRAC and support transfers to an MD player??

it could i guess, if some one wants to write a plugin. i was thinking more about moving away from sonicstage & atrac. something i'd prefer not to do but is being forced slowly on us by the market - unless you're the guy who likes to stockpile older units for fun.

[Sparky191]

I own: NW-HD1 (although don't use it much now)

and... NW-E016F (Black) (used daily with my Ultimate Ears Super-Fi Pro 5 Headphones).

What's the issue with the ATRAC Lossless? - i actually don't use it, but find that anything from 320Kbps upwards is bordering on the limits of what my ears can pick up, so tends to be good enough...

Exactly my point of filling out the 'Album Properties' dialogue box - it can loose tracks everywhere if this isn't filled out properly (checking the 'compilation' tick box tends to keep them together).

NW-E016F seems to get a lot of favorable comments. I'm thinking of getting one now myself. Nice unit.

1) ATRAC Lossless isn't support on much (if any) portable units.

2) ATRAC Lossless contains two files, a) lossless part and lossy part. The idea is the Lossless is the archival format. The Lossy bit is for portable use. Hence you create a ATRAC Lossless The bug is if you decide you want a different lossy bitrate than you made the ATRAC Lossless file with. SonicStage should use the lossless part to make he new bitrate. Its doesn't it, uses the Lossy part which is results in transcoding and worse quality. Lossless 64K = Lossless + 64k. If you want a 256kps file it will use the 64kps part to build the 256k. Its a pity because for the ATRAC fan its would be fantastic if this worked properly. That said if you make a decision to stick with ATRAC Lossless and stick with say 256k files for everything. It works well enough.

I decided I couldn't hear better than 192/256k on my portables so thats what I've stuck with. I can always recode should I end up with better equipment done the line.

I didn't think there is property for albums of compilation. Its only a property of tracks in SonicStage. I generally select all tracks in SonicStage and tick compilations. Makes everything group correctly in my experience.

I've moved away form ATRAC myself. Was too restrictive in the devices I could use. Pity because I really liked it.

[stim]

NW-E016F seems to get a lot of favorable comments. I'm thinking of getting one now myself. Nice unit.

Yeah, it's a good unit, it's tiny and battery lasts forever, but make sure you get the E016 not the E015, as it's a 4GB unit, not the 2GB.

Bizarrely i just had a phone call from Sony updating me on the SonicStage situation - bascially he told me that whilst we can use SonicStage for all of our music now and in the future, any future Walkman won't use it. ATRAC is essentially tied to SS so when all of the current Walkman's are dead and gone there won't be a way of getting the music out of SonicStage on a device... (hoping my E016 lasts a few years!)... i think i have come to the conclusion that one day i am going to have to re-rip my entire CD collection again into, most likely AAC or something (hoping AAC supports gapless play)... but at least i've got a few years until that happens... even then i might keep SS as it is, as i like the way it displays music on the TV for jukebox purposes (although no doubt the next version of Windows will force it's death).

Apparently 4.3 is the last major update... but i guess things might change?

Edited September 18, 2007 by stim

[Sparky191]

I say you'll be able to source SonicStage devices for a a few years on ebay and 2nd hand stores.