Updated: Minidisc Community Forums And ATRACLife Moving To Sony Insider

[Christopher]

Greetings. I am very excited to announce today that all of the data (posts, topics, etc), members, and so forth from Minidisc Community Forums and its once-existing sister site ATRACLife will be converged into the Sony Insider forums. I feel that this is the best way to unify all of this important data and bring a fresh appearance (and new software) to our existing users. The forums.minidisc.org domain will forward to this new domain before the end of 2009. I understand that this is a big change, but it will be worth it moving forward. Thanks for your continued support.+++

Instead of responding to the items of interest presented by some of the members here, I would like to reinvite everyone to look at Sony Insider forums. I spent some time today to re-organize and establish the framework for the move. This is going to be a dramatic change to Minidisc Community Forums - it will no longer exist and will simply become a forum of Sony Insider with relevant subforums. Here is what is going to happen to the forums within MDCF:

News goes to forum Minidisc > News (subforum)

Announcements goes to forum Announcements

Classifieds goes to Classifieds

Trading Place (merge Minidisc Trades and Hi-MD trades) becomes a subforum of Classifieds

Hi-MD goes to forum Minidisc > Hi-MD (subforum)

MD, NetMD + MDLP goes to forum Minidisc > MD, NetMD + MDLP (subforum)

Find your Minidisc goes to forum Minidisc

Live Recording goes to forum Minidisc > Live Recording (subforum)

Technical, Tips, and Tricks goes to forum Minidisc > Technical, Tips, and Tricks (subforum)

Product Reviews/Pictorials goes to forum Product Reviews/Pictorials

Software Discussion/FAQ's goes to forum Audio > Software (subforum)

'phones goes to forum Audio > 'phones (subforum)

Hi-/MD Evaluations + Criticisms goes to forum Minidisc

Off Topic [Music, Electronics + etc] goes to forum The Loft

There is obviously need for me to explain myself and the reasoning behind this move. First off, I want to say that I am NOT an agent of Sony, I am not on their payroll (although they do advertise on the site through Google Adsense, and we have run contests with their help). I do communicate often with Sony, we are on good terms, and I have many contacts there now. They have treated me very well in the past at trade shows, and accommodate any question or request I submit to them. That is the extent of our relationship. While one day I would love to work for a company such as Sony, that is not what I am doing right now. Sony Insider is not a pro-Sony site. We are simply covering Sony news. I have written news posts on Sony Insider that heavily criticize Sony, and praise them. I am not trying to merge MDCF with Sony Insider forums and make it pro-Sony. I want the Minidisc forums at Sony Insider to talk about all Minidisc products.

I, like many others, am still disappointed to this day how Sony handled the Minidisc format and I wish that it was still as popular today as it was ten years ago. However, we must face the facts and realize that it is 2009, and that the format is fading into obscurity because Sony (and other companies) are not investing themselves into it anymore. I don't need to explain why, but that is an undeniable fact.

I, like many others, have spent thousands of hours making MDCF what it is today. I wish you could have seen how this place looked when I took over in 2002. I knew nothing about websites, nothing about html, php, SQL, and all the other stuff that makes a forum experience work. I had to teach myself, which I did because of people like you supporting me, and things improved greatly (visually/content wise). It has come so far from then, and has exceeded any expectations I ever had. At one time it was one of the most important things in my life. We were guiding the format, and we accomplished alot of things together. The MZ-RH1 is proof of that. All of the Sonicstage updates are proof of that. However, it has grown old to me because of the format not being supported anymore and the only thing really left here for me to do is discuss things with the rest of you. That is difficult for me to do right now because I am investing a great deal of time into Sony Insider, school, another job, and a girlfriend. MDCF went to the bottom of that list very quickly.

It also doesn't make sense for me to pay for two Invision Power Board licenses, nor have seperate hosting, and continue to be invisible here as I've been for quite a while now. When we move, logins, profiles, post count, posts, topics, and anything else you can think of will remain the same. You won't have to re-register. This is about as seamless as it can get.

I want to reconnect with all of you - I miss talking to some of you and I want you to join me in this new venture I'm a part of. It's the most exciting thing I've ever created, and it is taking off far faster than you would believe. Sony Insider is a visually attractive site that is rich in functionality, has relevant and interesting content, and has the opportunity to grow much larger and impact more people than MDCF. Minidisc is a Sony technology. The forum software at Sony Insider forums is much more advanced than the already advanced software here. It became clear to me as I was crafting the Sony Insider forums that there was an opportunity for me to bring all the years incredible discussions, content, and people from MDCF and ATRACLife to Sony Insider forums and create a place that has 100,000 members and 200,000+ posts. Centralizing all of this is a huge boost in resourcefulness to Sony Insider and makes alot more sense looking ahead long term. Centralizing all of the research and help we've done for one another will be much more beneficial to people who need it.

I asked myself when I made this decision - do I want MDCF to be the same right now five years from now? Ten years from now? Do I want to sit on all of that data from ATRACLife and have nothing to do with it?

It just makes more sense to bring this all together guys. I understand that when its all said and done things won't look the same and feel the same. I understand that I am going to lose some of you, which really saddens me. I don't want to lose anyone that still goes here when I complete the move. I am begging you to come with me. I really think that all of us could get along very well, and help people just as much as some of you are doing now and have done in the past. It will not be a pro-Sony experience, and I will encourage discussion of all Minidisc products, just as we do today. There will be no change in attitude.

Thank you for your consideration.

[wisnewskimage]

Will the rest of the info at minidisc.org be staying on at that site?

[Christopher]

Minidisc.org will continue operations as normal.

[Abby Normal]

kurisu,

I peeked in at the forum structure at SonyInsider. The wording of the placeholder description for the MiniDisc archive is not clear. Does it mean that there will be sub-forums in the Audio category or will everything have to be discussed in a single forum named "Audio"?

Regards.

Abby Normal

[Christopher]

I understand that the transition seems a little confusing right now because I haven't specifically wrote where things will go. It is a big project, but it has been a long time coming. In the next week, as the transition begins, things will become more clear. I believe that yes, the Minidisc related discussions will have its own seperate forum, and then subforums within that. There will not just be a huge Minidisc forum with no organization, that would be insane.

[bland10000]

Will our sign-in from here apply to Insider or do we need to sign-up anew over there?

[Christopher]

All logins and profiles should remain the same, which is very very nice. I want the transition to be as easy and unobtrusive as possible to everyone here.

[Abby Normal]

....There will not just be a huge Minidisc forum with no organization, that would be insane.

All logins and profiles should remain the same, which is very very nice. I want the transition to be as easy and unobtrusive as possible to everyone here.

Thank you! That eases my concerns. Sanity good!

[Christopher]

No problem. Thank you for your support.

[bobt]

Hi Chris,

Good move, will save a lot of bouncing around

Bob

[RobA]

My question: What happens if you have an account at all 3 sites? (MCDF, ATRACLife, and Sony Insider)? Will the accounts be merged?

[sinus]

Sorry in being maybe the only dissonant opinion here, but I'm not sure that is such a good idea. MiniDisc isn't all about Sony. Sure, they invented it, improved it, and killed it, but Onkyo, Kenwood, Panasonic, Sharp, Aiwa, Denon, Buffalo, Pioneer, Sanyo, Casio, Marantz, -well, nearly every Japanese electronics manufacturer- had a try with MiniDisc.

Unless I have misunderstood, and MiniDisc.org will live on alongside the mirror copy inside SonyInsider.

I have to agree with you - but I think you understood correctly. Sorry.

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[kino170878]

Yes Sony killed Minidisc, but they did make the best units out of all the manufacturers (which makes sense as they invented the thing). I've had Aiwa and Technics MD units crap out on me, I never had a Sony go bad.

[sinus]

I'll do the same as skogens - there still is the german MD forum ... i might as well wait for a new international one.

[john ferguson]

Yes Sony killed Minidisc, but they did make the best units out of all the manufacturers (which makes sense as they invented the thing). I've had Aiwa and Technics MD units crap out on me,/ I never had a Sony go bad./

Your lucky my MZ-RH10 will not title tracks...and to fix this...Sony wanted £200....YOU CAN GET A NEW ONE FOR £250!!!

[Abby Normal]

Have a bunch of things to do today, but just a quick reply on the ensuing controversy:

I probably have a slightly different take on things considering my late entry into the format, but those of you who have read enough of my posts should know that I am pretty disgusted with Sony myself (they're what kept me from entering the format until it was nearly dead, after all).

That said, I'm not positive that folding it under sonyinsider is the kiss of death either. I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell sonyinsider has no direct relationship with Sony, does it? Furthermore, Mr. MacManus has been a great steward of the contributions that this community has made--not to mention that he gave these contributions (in addition to his own) an environment to grow.

Additionally--I could be wrong, but I doubt it--this change doesn't hamper anybody's ability to discuss other brands. Assuming I'm not wrong about the non-existence of a direct relationship, we'll be able to continue our criticism of the Sony brand as well.

In conclusion, I understand the feelings that putting the minidisc forums on a Sony-centric site evoke--I just don't think that after all that this site has done for us that it is fair to characterize this as a "hostile takeover". Nothing is changing in terms of ownership or management. Chris just wants to consolidate hardware, software, and databases. It's clear that there's been a lot more recent attention paid to the sonyinsider site in terms of design and functionality. Once the sites are merged we'll be able to enjoy the results of those efforts in the minidisc community, too.

Regards,

Abby Normal

[sharpsony]

I am absolutely shocked by this sad news. So far, minidisc.org has been the (virtual) home of the worldwide MD community, kind of "United Nations of MiniDisc lovers". The site and the forums have helped countless people solving problems with their MD/Hi-MD gear and provided the community with world exclusive news about the format - positive news (like the introduction of Hi-MD, MZ-RH1 etc.) as well as negative news (the death of the format). Why the hell do you want to split apart this nearly perfect site? I hope you will reconsider and revoke this decision that I do not understand at all. In my opinion, moving the forums away from minidisc.org is the beginning of the end of this wonderful worldwide minidisc community...

Edited August 22, 2009 by sharpsony

[Abby Normal]

I wish people would stop characterizing this as changing anything but the branding of the site and the domain that it resides on. It's not the branding, logo, and domain name that make this site what it is--it's the people who are engaged in the discussion. If this means any significant change in policy or terms of use that would somehow restrict us from voicing our opinion on the Sony brand, then I'll take up pitchforks with you. Beyond that, I think you're all making a big stink over someone just wanting to consolidate resources and probably improve the functionality of the site to boot.

Now, could this change be made to look more seamless than it will be? Chris could write some Url Rewrite rules that would keep the URLs displayed as minidisc.org. He could adapt the current theme so at least profiles imported into sonyinsider would see roughly the same interface when they visited the minidisc section. That may sound like a great idea to you, but when you think about it carefully it just illustrates exactly how unimportant the differences will be. If it's important enough to you, write a GreaseMonkey script to accomplish the same thing. Abandoning the forum due to changes that are largely cosmetic seems awfully petty in my humble opinion.

[Giant_Rick]

Ouch, sounds like a big news!

If this can add more users to the MD discussions, it is OK for me; I'm sure we'll find a lot of interesting people on SonyInsider.

On the other side I'm a little bit disappointed with it; Sony is not the only mark that made MDs.. and I hope that SI is not a place where everything against Sony is censored or something.

I just want to debate wheter Sony is good or not, as well as other brands' discussions.

I'm not the best user here and I write very few posts here due to some language limitations (I'm Italian, I can understand most of what I read, but I'm not very good in speaking and writing, so making a decent phrase is hard for me), but I can assure you that I read almost every new thread and I've read a lot.

I'll do the same as skogens - there still is the german MD forum ... i might as well wait for a new international one.

I'd love an international one (in English, please!) and I'll join both boards.

Why don't we start to take into account some places where to start a forum? Are we seriously (I am) talking about a new one?

p.s.: it's not the first ''transition'' I experience (I've seen it twice on other forums) and I'm afraid of some database troubles..

so is there a software that allows me to download just some threads, and not the whole forum? Or do I have to do it on my own (which will take very long, the thread about how to make mikes and battery box is 30+ pages!)?

Thank you.

p.p.s.: everything written above is In My Humble Opinion -- please don't feel offende if you find something that hurts you

[Abby Normal]

Since this board and SonyInsider both use the same forum software the data will make it there just fine. The only tricky part may be links in old posts pointing to the right place, but it's not an insurmountable task.

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[A440]

How to ever feel comfortable with your friend MiniDisc in an unbiased setting where SONY pops up in every URL?

We just have to see how this turns out.

There are a lot of "insider" sites that have nothing to do with the named company--and, indeed, act sometimes as gadflies to them.

If it's just a matter of minidisc.org being hosted somewhere else, and possibly bringing together more people with knowledge of ATRAC, etc., I don't see it as a big deal. If there is some company line involved, then that's a different story. But so far, it doesn't look that way.

Do you really look at URLs when you're on a forum?

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[Abby Normal]

skogens,

Christopher MacManus (kurisu) founded this forum. "MiniDisc" is a Sony trademark. "kurisu" has already been supporting Sony all these years by maintaining this forum on minidisc.org. That is the reality. Your argument presupposes that a major management change is occurring when it is not. The "marketing" angle is splitting hairs. Surely both kurisu and Sony have been in a co-beneficial relationship whether it has been officially or not--and if it is true, moving MDCF to sonyinsider changes naught.

I smell breakfast. Talk later.

Abby Normal

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[tekdroid]

I feel that this is the best way to unify all of this important data and bring a fresh appearance (and new software) to our existing users.

* fresh appearance

* new software to existing users

Either way, I'm not too fussed, but couldn't this be done without the convergence, keeping MiniDisc-related talk separate from the rest of Sony's products (and on its own site), like it is now? I can understand it on some level, because MiniDisc seems to be on its last legs at retail and there is some probably increasing talk of new Walkmans and so forth here, but I still have this feeling inside me that it might be better if this community were kept separate on its own site as it is now. Just as in the real world MiniDisc users are total outcasts

It seems like the format might not get the attention (or at least diluted attention) under the SonyInsider banner and site. At least that's a fear (concern?) I have.

[Abby Normal]

skogens,

By saying Christopher founded the forums I wasn't trying to appeal to your gratitude or anything.

Here's the deal. When I debate I try to acknowledge the purely emotional components of the opposing argument and then I put them aside. After that, I attempt to lay out the facts and how they relate to opposing arguments' assertions. Let me see if I can break it down to the "brass tacks", as it were:

Assertion: Moving MDCF to sonyinsider represents fundamental changes in management, ownership, or policies.

Fact: MDCF management is consolidating resources. No change in ownership or policy has been announced.

Assertion: This change will result in more deference to Sony as a corporation.

Fact: No facts have come to light that support this assertion.

I do see your point about his enthusiasm for the brand, though. I assert that this change doesn't represent an uptick of that--it is a purely logistical move.

tekdroid,

I don't believe this move is intentionally symbolic of the format's "last legs" status. As I state above, it is purely a consolidation of resources that has the additional benefit of giving us access to an installation of IPB (the forum software) that is better maintained. It's a win-win.

Abby Normal

[BIGHMW]

Will all of the topics from the old ATRAC Life Colloquium be restored and included on the new Sony Insider links? There are those of us who need access to the upgrade links (both software and firmware upgrades, especially for the NW-HD and NW-A series Network Walkmen, as well as all volume unlock codes for our EU-model owning friends) and classified ads that were previously on it.

Thanks,

Ray Jackson

MDCF/ALC user ID: BIGHMW

[tekdroid]

I don't believe this move is intentionally symbolic of the format's "last legs" status. As I state above, it is purely a consolidation of resources that has the additional benefit of giving us access to an installation of IPB (the forum software) that is better maintained. It's a win-win.

What I don't get is:

can't the software be updated/maintained here on its own site, like it always was?

Do we need a fresh look?

Do we need it consolidated?

What needs maintaining? Is it just a case of more efficiencies?

As far as navigation and usability of this site are concerned, will things be better off here or there?

I have no doubt this will bring a lot more traffic to SonyInsider, but will it affect the MiniDisc talk and navigation negatively? People here are really attracted to MiniDisc and not necessarily other Sony products, and maybe things will turn out less 'vibrant' in the new house regarding MiniDisc.

Then again it could bring in more talk, I guess. I think a lot of it will depend on the implementation, but it would be a shame to see the site being diluted like so many other sites. Not really specialising in anything well, and not really attracting the fanatics

[Abby Normal]

can't the software be updated/maintained here on its own site, like it always was?

I don't agree that it has been maintained that fastidiously here. A look at the contrast between here and SonyInsider bears witness to that.

Do we need a fresh look?

Do we need it consolidated?

What needs maintaining? Is it just a case of more efficiencies?

As far as navigation and usability of this site are concerned, will things be better off here or there?

Taking these slightly out of order because the bottom line is cost and maintenance efficiencies are probably a core reason for this change:

It's not about a fresh look--a fresh look is just a side benefit.

The hardware, software, database and some of the content needs to be maintained.

The management feels they need to consolidate their resources (hardware, software, database, management-maintained content).

It is all about efficiencies.

I have no doubt this will bring a lot more traffic to SonyInsider, but will it affect the MiniDisc talk and navigation negatively? People here are really attracted to MiniDisc and not necessarily other Sony products, and maybe things will turn out less 'vibrant' in the new house regarding MiniDisc.

It can't get much less vibrant than it is now. Compared to the heyday, I understand that traffic here is, to say the least, severely muted. As a matter of fact, this will probably increase exposure to the format slightly. It's a bit like the Internet equivalent of "foot traffic". This forum will be moving to a location with a lot MORE visibility.

[tekdroid]

It can't get much less vibrant than it is now. Compared to the heyday, I understand that traffic here is, to say the least, severely muted.

I don't know, just seeing how many people are online here, it doesn't seem to be so different to 4-5 years ago. But then I could be totally mistaken. Moving it will either increase traffic or bury MiniDisc further into a site with unrelated content. I don't know which. I don't know if there are many advantages to the Average User looking up MiniDisc and coming here versus doing it on SonyInsider. I guess efficiencies count for something, though.

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[sfbp]

I still can't see the point in this move, except for interests I expressed earlier.

I'm guessing it's two IPS licenses instead of one.

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[sinus]

Do you know this for fact and how about minidisc.org staying in the air which means that the amount of IPs will be the same after the move? Also, if money would be the issue, why not ask for some? When I became a member of the forum, I already offered an unused domain I own, hosted in NY. I don't even mind paying for complete (new) domain, with an appropriate domain name. That doesn't cost a fortune anymore these days.

I think he was referring to the Invision forum software (look at the bottom of the page) not to Internet Providers.

[Abby Normal]

You're missing a lot of possible issues. When you buy hosting (not domain registration) for high traffic sites the bandwidth usage becomes a significant expense. Chris may be paying for a certain tier for SonyInsider that has a lot of unutilized bandwidth. On top of that, he's paying hosting fees (again, not domain registration--domain registration is cheap--so it's a non-issue) for minidisc.org--a lower tier, but maybe he's still exceeding his quota and is having to pay for overages. Let's say 98% of this bandwidth on minidisc.org is the forum (not unthinkable). If he shifts that over to SonyInsider, he's saving a ton of money.

I should add that I doubt that cash expenses have much to do with this decision. I put more weight on the increased ability to efficiently maintain the software, database, and content. I doubt IPS (Invision Power Services) licensing has much to do with it either. Their pricing is not that extravagant.

[Deleted Member]

Deleted by author.

[brian10161]

This seems pretty cool, looking forward to seeing how it turns out.