Defying Expectations, Third Generation Hi-MD Unit Surfaces?

[The Low Volta]

just to throw in my humble opinion... I've always been very happy with my NH900 and could resist the RH10, but this one with the very excellent recording options (hey anyone else got the idea 'we' kinda designed this one?? ) will probably be my next purchase!! (and with the RM-MC40ELK remote I already have and greenmachine's mics and B-Box no concert will go untaped anymore whoohahahaha )

[Stuge]

Some what I have Given my to this unit ..

Edited March 10, 2006 by stuge

[OddsAndEnds]

I guess RH1....

RH1's mechanism resembles RH10's it. So I think it.

Edited March 15, 2006 by OddsAndEnds

[batfastad]

Hi-MD deck, then I will be happy.

A pair of really good quality deck products. One mid-range that retails for $400 (£250) or so.

Then another for $700.

If this is a rumour, then I'd love to see some rumours about HiMD decks!

Loads of people slate minidisc all the time (especially the morons at engadget), but I get the feeling that people don't realise the power of HiMD as a recording format over original minidisc.

Personally I love my MZ-RH10. A few Nimh batteries and the external AA battery pack.

Add the RM MC40ELK and you're sorted. And a retail price of £160 when I bought mine was amazing!!!

MP3 playback / transfer on the RH10 is great for my uses.

Linear PCM recording is awesome though.

This will be one to look at

[eriktous]

I'm not sure if this means anything, but why does it say 'Hi-MD audio'? Are they trying to differentiate this from some other Hi-MD? Currently, I can use a Hi-MD disc for audio or for data and I don't know of a 'Hi-MD Video'. Just wondering out loud.

Doesn't mean anything. It has said 'Hi-MD Audio' on all Hi-MD devices so far, I think (at least it does so on my NH900 and on the RH10; I'm to lazy to check the others).

[Top Cat]

I like the location of the display on top side of unit. You can just look down the top of your pocket to see line level adjustments. I might consider this an advantage even over a larger display.

I agree, this is very cool.

I often find myself in a situation where MD recorder is viewed from the side, like on top of other gear stacked in a rack or on the table couple meters away.

However, I'm not sure if I'd like the cords sticking out of the opposite (to the display) side as the display would have to be at the bottom of the pocket in a pocketed scenario. With the traditional display location it is possible to pull the unit out of the pocket only partially to observe the levels.

[The Low Volta]

top cat, you could just let the cables come out besides the recorder and keep it upright

[Top Cat]

Then I'll have to construct a new mic wiring.

Currently I have a nice long metal unscrewable jack with microphones and I can't even imagine a compact L-shaped jack attachable to a mic cable at home.

Definitely they could have provided for a socket on front panel for a pro unit, for e.g. in place of the Hi-MD logo

[The Low Volta]

T C, are you using mics that plug in directly to the machine? if so, please don't use some simple stereo cable or something as it really must pick up the machine's whirring etc. (hm reread, I don't really think you do, but I can't really imagine your setup)

and besides for home use... why the need to keep it in a pouch anyway?

I for one really like the placement... I would lead all cables out a small hole in the bottom while my view of the screen would remain free... still, I'd love some more shots of the machine (all sides, and preferably from a real one ... not a mockup or a prototype) but I guess everyone would love that

Edited March 10, 2006 by The Low Volta

[Top Cat]

T C, are you using mics that plug in directly to the machine?

You probably haven't heard my recordings

some jazz here

(the page is in Russian, sorry, but try to just click on the song links to listen)

Here's the setup:

You see, would be pretty inconvenient to have the mic socket at the pocket bottom...

You see, would be pretty inconvenient to have the mic socket at the pocket bottom...

[rickkk]

I still think the controls look too small. Sometimes I hit the search button on my rh10 when I turn up the volume. I'd like to see a water resistant "sports" model with bigger controls, more rugged, less flash.

[apple zealot]

This is awesome. I just bought a BZ-B100 against my better judgement (since it's obsolete). But it's an amazing unit for recording MDLP. If this new Hi-MD is true, I will return my B100 right now!

If anyone wants to take a shot at these:

1. Is the Mac support better than Gen 2 (first units to support Mac)?
2. Are uploads still limited to PCM?
3. Will software be required for anything? Data storage never required software, right?
4. Will it be backwards compatable with MDLP discs, like Gen 2?

For the data storage and OLED alone, this looks like a sexy beast.

I still think the controls look too small. Sometimes I hit the search button on my rh10 when I turn up the volume. I'd like to see a water resistant "sports" model with bigger controls, more rugged, less flash.

Yeah, the button size is ridiculous. It's hard to tell if I press them or not. At least it makes the design minimalist.

[dex Otaku]

Am I the only one that notices that the dots to mark the level monitor are out of place? the -12 dB dot isn't even under the display?

I noticed .. was the first thing I noticed .. they have the -12dB mark at the bottom of the scale [which on my RH10 and NH700 is about -38dB] .. very strange.

The unit looks nice, though.

P.S. .. hey Sony - TIMESTAMPING! TIMESTAMPING! TIMESTAMPING! TIMESTAMPING! TIMESTAMPING! TIMESTAMPING! TIMESTAMPING!

Yep.

[Andicillo]

Awsome!!! Really Awsome.. I'll buy it anyway.. I just can't wait to have it... The last unit ever??? It will be woth the price

[fatmuttony]

Actually i prefer standarized NiMH over expensive, proprietary li-ion.

Fat, read more about battery chemistries here:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/

Well, I read up about the NiMH batteries, I still can't understand why the NiMH battery is so disliked. Any explanation?

[Sparky191]

AA is more useful in the field.

[FezzFest]

I also prefer Ni-MH batteries over Li-ion ones, because the first ones are cheaper and easier found in stores.

[mrsoul]

Although this was closed in another thread...it's a good read anyways. There is some interesting discussion going on over at engadget.com regrading the RH1...check it out here

Edited March 11, 2006 by mrsoul

[J.N.2005]

THIS IS THE LAST MODEL OF MD UNITS ???

[Dmitry.Korobkov]

THIS IS THE LAST MODEL OF MD UNITS ???

I'am not like word "last"

Phrase like "It will be edge model of MD inits" look better.

[J.N.2005]

I'am not like word "last"

Phrase like "It will be edge model of MD inits" look better.

OK, OK MY FRIEND.

YOU HAVE REASON.

SALVE MINI DISC !!!

AVE MINIDISC !!!

[blackmore44]

Speculation has been rampant about a new third-generation Hi-MD unit dubbed MZ-RH1. Specifications are not definitive at this time, but various sources have cited that this would be a unit aimed solely at the live recording enthusiast. We've pieced together a few more details along with a picture..+++

We'll keep an eye out, but don't expect anything official from Sony until April.

From what we've heard (but cannot confirm), there will be:

- PC/Mac compatibility akin to the MZ-M10/100.

- High Definition Digital Amp.

- Possible full USB2.0 compliance, which is somewhat impossible due to a limitation of the hardware/disc.

- The only Hi-MD recording unit that will be released this year, possibly the last ever created.

- An option to keep manual record settings ON even when the unit is off, instead of the unit automatically resorting to Automatic Gain Control (AGC) when the unit is powered off and on.

- An option to turn off auto-track mark.

- Other additions that will make live recording much more intuitive.

- Cost will hover around $275-325USD (349Euro) at debut.

- Line in, mic in, headphone out, 5mW output and 6-band EQ.

- Aluminium body.

What we can assume:

- Easy and nonrestrictive upload of any recorded tracks due to advancements in Sonicstage 3.4, which it will ship with.

- Adjustable mic sensitivity (as the levels are clearly displayed via unit).

- Ability to charge via USB, like second generation Hi-MD units.

- Ability to record in all of the new ATRAC3plus bitrates, e.g. 192kbps + 352kbps and PCM (wav)

- OLED display (clearly displayed on picture).

- Uses NiMH gumstick battery with high possibility of AA-battery addon pack for enhanced battery life.

The unit surfaced at mp3-player.de, a German e-tailer that sells various portable audio products. Thanks to indeego for the heads up.

This is coming out in April with bundle software a digital studio program like the other Hi-MD unit their selling! My friend at Sony in Japan confirmed this. This will be a unit where one can record at various speeds and compressions etc...Its going to be very expensive, I was asked not to give too much info out regarding prices. I haven't been around on this forum much so my info maybe outdated as I only read this post as I'm not a big fan of forums other than to get authentic information!

Edited March 12, 2006 by blackmore44

[The Low Volta]

This is coming out in April with bundle software a digital studio program like the other Hi-MD unit their selling! My friend at Sony in Japan confirmed this. This will be a unit where one can record at various speeds and compressions etc...Its going to be very expensive, I was asked not to give too much info out regarding prices. I haven't been around on this forum much so my info maybe outdated as I only read this post as I'm not a big fan of forums other than to get authentic information!

a german site already offered price info (can't recall exactly, but was about €340 IIRC)

but as you have a Japanese Sony connection... how about you scoring a big news-scoop here on MDCF with some more pics?? I understand if you can't...no problem, but you can't blame me for trying I'm ever so anxious and I haven't got any Japanese connections...let alone at Sony

[Dmitry.Korobkov]

This is coming out in April with bundle software a digital studio program like the other Hi-MD unit their selling! My friend at Sony in Japan confirmed this. This will be a unit where one can record at various speeds and compressions etc...Its going to be very expensive, I was asked not to give too much info out regarding prices. I haven't been around on this forum much so my info maybe outdated as I only read this post as I'm not a big fan of forums other than to get authentic information!

Do you mean RH1 model or something else?

[EagleEyeGI]

Here's a mechanized translation of german page: http://www.mp3-player.de/artikel.php?ArtNr=3057

Sony MZ-RH1 Hi-MD

color: black

Delivery time: starting from June 2006 also by financing, you compute rates and running time now!

So far still no evaluation for this product is present.

Write the first evaluation now and win you a mad surprise, which draws mp3-player.de by lots each month under the Ersteinsendern.

(the course of law is impossible)

Best price guarantee for introduction on the market!

Now book in advance and first equipment receive we guarantee the best price on the day of the initial delivery in Germany

Newest ultracompact Hi-MD Player of the top class hp digital amplifier for outstanding sound USB 2.0 High speed Mac compatibly (Upload of own photographs possible) full metal housings from aluminum direct MP3 & ATRAC rendition further features

OLED display with clock

6 band Equalizer

DPC: variable recording speed

Uploading over USB cable possible

various editing functions

adjustable microphone sensitivity

can be used as removable data carriers (AROUND)

ID3-Tag support

memory of PC data (* .jpg, * .doc, * .pdf, etc.)

uncompressed admission in original CD quality possible

transformation of ATRAC in WAV format for unrestricted use on PC and Mac

space for 45 CD's on a 1GB Hi-MD disk (with Atrac3Plus compression)

Connections

3.5 mm headphone out

3.5 mm LINE in

3.5 mm microphone in

3.5 mm Digital-in

USB 2.0 interface

Provided Accessories

LCD cable remote control (1 line)

Stereo in ear headphone

USB cable

optical digital cable

Flachakku power pack

external battery box

bag

installation software (SonicStage 3.4/MD Simple Burner 2.0)

Technical Data

Dimensions (B x H x T): ?

Weight: ? g

[dex Otaku]

Mention of the clock has my interest piqued. Damn, I wish I had a tax return this year.

[ZosoIV]

That's a VERY sharp looking unit! I'm glad Hi-MD still seems to have some life left in it - at least Sony seems to be cognizant of its value to recordists. I don't think I will partake, though - I no longer do any live recording, which is why I hardly ever use MD's anymore.

Maybe Sony will fix the MP3 playback flaw on this one? I wouldn't mind the combo of 1GB discs full of LAME --preset standard files and a digital amp

PS - When they say "full" USB2.0 support, I wonder if they mean USB 2.0 Full Speed, i.e. 12Mbps; past Sony products have claimed to be USB 2.0 compatible in a similar fashion. They'd have to really tweak the reading/writing process of Hi-MD's to take advantage of USB 2.0 High Speed, considering that current Hi-MD's are so slow in those departments.

[dex Otaku]

When they say "full" USB 2.0 support, I wonder if they mean USB 2.0 Full Speed, i.e. 12Mbps; past Sony products have claimed to be USB 2.0 compatible in a similar fashion. They'd have to really tweak the reading/writing process of Hi-MD's to take advantage of USB 2.0 High Speed, considering that current Hi-MD's are so slow in those departments.

Well, to begin with, USB 1.1 = 12Mbps, USB 2.0 = 480Mbps.

Secondly, since the highest officially stated spec for the read speed of Hi-MD is between 9-10Mbps [a physical limitation of the DWDD format itself] with a write speed between .5-.6x that .. it seems pretty unlikely that HiMD is going to suddenly jump from a stated maximum speed below even that of USB 1.1 to anywhere even remotely near 480Mbps.

HiMD currently already uses USB 1.1.

[ZosoIV]

Well, to begin with, USB 1.1 = 12Mbps, USB 2.0 = 480Mbps.

Well, not exactly - USB 1.1 is a depreciated standard. USB 1.1 was absorbed into the USB 2.0 standard, so you won't see products listed as being USB 1.1 compatible anymore. USB 2.0 has three modes; "full speed" is analogous to the old USB 1.1 12Mbps standard. Thus, a product can be listed as being "USB 2.0 compatible" and not imply "High Speed" (480Mbps) compatibility. See http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm.

Case in point: current Sony products, like their flash players, are listed as being "USB 2.0 compatible," but again, what they mean is USB 2.0 Full Speed, formerly known as USB 1.1. Like you said, though, DWDD (and to some extent, MO technology itself) makes the semantics moot; Hi-MD will likely never reach "real" USB 2.0 speeds.

Edited March 13, 2006 by ZosoIV

[dex Otaku]

The USB-IF’s recommended nomenclature for consumers is “USB” for slower speed products (1.5 Mb/s and 12Mb/s) and “Hi-Speed USB” for high-speed products (480Mb/s), as signified in the USB logos that were introduced in late 2000.

Straight for the purveyors of the USB standard. Semantically speaking, this would imply that we're both incorrect, and also both correct. While USB 1.1 may indeed be deprecated, and USB 2.0 may have backward compatibility, the stated spec of USB 1.1, which is mistakable as nothing else, is what I said. As indicated above, again semantically, we're both using the wrong nomenclature in describing USB at all. Funny how that works.

I tend to also [incorrectly] equate 2.0 with High Speed, simply because the 480Mbps rate was the reason for ratifying a new version [and version number].

But yes. MD80 read at something like just over 1Mbps .. they write at between 400-600kbps .. HiMD writes at around 4.8Mbps and reads at about 9 peak. Real world [measured] performance though has PCM audio uploading from the unit at about 6Mbps, average.

[fatmuttony]

Dex, I just saw your post (and I'm sure a few other MDCF members pitched in earlier, couldn't recognise them though) on engadget. Good one. Some much-needed sanity in a thread designed to bash the MiniDisc.

[ZosoIV]

Dex, I just saw your post (and I'm sure a few other MDCF members pitched in earlier, couldn't recognise them though) on engadget. Good one. Some much-needed sanity in a thread designed to bash the MiniDisc.

Yes, I saw that as well: thanks for defending (Hi-)MD. I don't think that the average person realizes that MD is capable of recording sound from any source, and see it only as an ancient and depreciated pre-cursor to newer compressed music players like iPod. While I'm the first to admit that I no longer use MD so much for listening purposes (FLAC/Ogg files and a handful of flash and HDD players fill my current needs better), it still is THE easiest and cheapest way for Joe Public to make high-quality recordings of concerts or analog sources. Flash recorders still aren't that cheap, and the media certainly isn't right now, even with 1GB cards now going for $40.

I guess I don't see why people have to be so negative about Hi-MD - if you don't like it, don't use it. Engadget consistently treats it like some buck-toothed, ugly cousin of MP3

[poe]

Someone earlier linked to a another forum talking about the RH1, one of the posts brought a good point. I think if Sony keeps to one unit a year and I mean no foreign versions just one unit a year for everyone, I think it may still be profitable for a little while to come. Let's face it there is a lot of us who will never give up on our MDs, I for one, we will replace these eventually. Don't think from a American prespective though, think world wide, there will be still be a lot of people using MDs for a long time. I know I would rather replace them with a new high quality unit, than some questionable used unit off of Ebay.POE

Edited March 13, 2006 by poe

[Rumz]

Count me in with those who will buy one of these SonicStage 3.4 also has rekindled some interest in Hi-MD for me-- this just makes it that much more enticing to get a new unit (since I skipped 2nd-gen Hi-MD...) You can also count me among those that wish there was a Hi-MD deck...

[bobt]

Mention of the clock has my interest piqued. Damn, I wish I had a tax return this year.

The NH1 also has a clock

Bob

[Skradgee]

The NH1 also has a clock

Bob

Yep. That's what sold me on the NH1 vs. the NH900...back in the day.

[Petter156]

So besides the clock and the aluminum contruction, what´s so great about this one compared to the older models?

No Li-Ion batteries

No Line-out

Should I be interested in this?

[Sparky191]

So besides the clock and the aluminum contruction, what´s so great about this one compared to the older models?

No Li-Ion batteries

No Line-out

Should I be interested in this?

Looks?

TBH theres no real details on this unit. The details are a bit ambiguious. We're all waiting to find out the nitty gritty.

[alrose312]

The question I want answered is: When???

some say this will hit the stores in June, some say April.

It's a given that I'll buy this, so the real questions for me is: When? When? When???

[tekdroid]

Note, these are just my opinions

good points:

1) no tacky painted-silver plastic (that rubs off with enough wear-n-tear). Hallelujah! (at least I hope those silver buttons are actually what they appear to be: metal)

2) metal body

3) no tacky glossy plastic (fingerprint-prone, easily scratched). The need for kiddie-bling has finally disappeared, it seems.

4) main controls seem to be shaped and sized right for easier use (if what I think the right-part of controls are actually what they are, that is...)

5) seems slim/small, MZ-NH1-style

6) very good display for night/lower-light viewing

7) timestamp/clock seems to be back (maybe)

bad points:

1) tiny display like MZ-NH1 - at least 3 line necessary, IMO (but 3-line would be hard to fit on the side, so possibly a reasonable compromise for those benefiting from a display on the edge of the unit).

2) most likely a bad choice of display for full-sun/outdoor applications (or "leave it on the desk and observe from above" viewpoints). Can't win 'em all.

3) no native AA battery support, though probably reasonable compromise given size constraints (but MZ-NH700 spoils me)

4) tiny buttons for some (less-used) functions (I guess they're good to prevent accidental presses, but can be an issue).

5) personally I dislike the way black heats up in the sun. I woulda preferred the more natural lustre of metal with no coloured coating (MZ-NH1 style)

Good n bad

Overall, some welcome improvements, a few not-so-welcome and some "could-be-good / could-be-not-so-good" changes, depending on how you use it (as is always the case with new units). I hope the remote is good, though 1-line display doesn't inspire confidence. I think Sony tried to contain costs here; they gave us metal and the more expensive display (and timestamp) but had to contain costs in other areas to lower their manufacturing costs (and of course help move older units, lol).

Lossless formats

Recording to a lossless format like FLAC or Sony's own should be on this unit if it isn't already. Even granny plays with 1GB+ now, and some space-saving lossless format is what's needed on a device of this calibre.

Still trying to make sense of DPC: Variable Recording Speed. Hmmmmmmm.

Last unit?

I am positive this will not be Sony's last Hi-MD unit.

Value?

Will I buy? Definitely not at the initial asking price.

What will make me buy at the asking price?

1) USB On-The-Go functionality to save digital camera pics to while on-the-go (!).

2) Native drag-n-drop for audio recordings (no SonicStage whatsoever)

Summary

Yum. Reduce the price. Or increase features