Minidisc report covers the format's history and development

[Webmaster]

Paul Ratazzi at Rensselaer Lally School of Management has written a report entitled MiniDisc: Successful Innovation or Just Cool Technology? - An Analysis of Sony’s Decade-Long Quest for Success. He does a good job of covering Minidisc's history and development. From the report: President Ohga bestowed “corporate status” on the MD project, at the time something which had only been done for Betamax, 8mm cameras, and the CD player. This high level support enabled Sony to quickly bring together existing complementary assets and technologies for rapid innovation.

[sebastianbf]

Very interesting. Thanks for the link. (Will post an opinion later)

(Look at the references: http://minidisc.org ! )

[MDX-400]

It is very interesting to see a well written academic paper on MD like that

I haven't read it all yet but I do look forward to doing so!

The only thing I found quite strange for the level of professionalism in the paper and it's formatting was the title!

"MiniDisc: Successful Innovation or Just Cool Technology?"

Like c'mon now, who uses the word "cool" in a paper like that? LOL...

[MikeRofone]

One small clarification: The paper mentions hat the maximum recording time for the DCC format was 90 minutes. In practice this is true, but Philips had announced 120-minute tapes when DCC was launched. There's a pin sequence for 120-minute tapes in the service manual too. However, no 120-minute tapes actually were produced.

[chogaman]

I enjoyed the paper. Although it's in an academic style, it's written so well that even someone who never heard of the Minidisc can read it and find out a lot about the format and it's history. Well researched and documented - it's a minidisc manifesto! The minidisc is rightfully represented as a replacement format for the cassette, and not a challenger to the CD. Although in my world, HiMD HAS replaced the CD. I only grudingly make CDs for friends without Minidisc players.

[batfastad]

This is very interesting.

The format still kicks and everyone knows it!

[hobgoblin]

i think most people have a problem with the atrac codec, not with the MD format itself (alltho, people are getting used to carrying double digit GB of storage in their pocket).

now, where did that hi-md datadrive go of to?

[jrcoup1]

This may be a dumb question, but after reading this paper I have to ask: can pre-Hi-MD units play Hi-MDs?

"In 2004, Sony completely reinvented MD with the launch of the Hi-MD system. Hi-MD quintupled the storage capacity of standard MD media to 1GB by reducing the size of the disc’s magnetic domains. Backward playback compatibility with older media is maintained through the use of Domain Wall Displacement Detection (DWDD), an innovative technique patented by Sony. DWDD allows longer-wavelength playback lasers, like those used in earlier units, to also play the new higher-density media." (underlining my own)

[mercury_in_flames]

nope. different hardware.

[Odyssey]

//// The minidisc is rightfully represented as a replacement format for the cassette, and not a challenger to the CD. ////

True, the target market was the dying cassette users market. At the timeCassettes had exceeded their technology and better replacements were on the horizon. I had thought that the MD might have been a challanger to the CD if it did not hack the music data when it formatted it.

//// Although in my world, HiMD HAS replaced the CD. I only grudingly make CDs for friends without Minidisc players ////

I use the CDs for master (this is pre-MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200 ) and use the MD for portable players. This is because of the fabulous quality that the CD maintains which is great for copy to MD.

The MD, on the other hand, only records a high portion of bits when it is compressed. This slightly affects sound quality, most won't notice it. But if you try to record MD to MD, the compression will remove more sound bits from the MD data already compressed and sound quality will begin to deteriorate quickly.

Though not a great problem, MDs can lose the TOC and that destroys the music data and sometimes renders the disk un-useable. Keeping the CD for Master prevents this loss by simply providing a permanent ( at about 100 years life )medium that can be used to record again to replace the lost MD data.

Everyone has their methods, the NetMD users may use the hard drive but they can crash too. Keep it safe and it won't be lost, so to speak.

O

[The Low Volta]

pressed CDs have a long life expectancy, but CDr is known to become unreliable after 10-15 years (and from personal experience, I've seen it happen that the top layer of well stored CDr's starts to flake and the discs become unreadable)

also, if one is willing to use HiMD discs, one can easily store music in lossless PCM (if you want to be able to play it on the portable) and as data (but not able to be played by the HiMD) in any other lossless format you like

[jrcoup1]

nope. different hardware.

Cheers Rotter,

What's the author on about then? I'm confused!

[The Low Volta]

I haven't really read the thing you quoted and I must admit the quote is a bit unclear... but believe us (a lot of us tried ) backwards compatibility is only present as in: while HiMD is a different technology, the HiMD recorders can still use the old discs (60, 74 and 80 min), play old recordings and - 1st gen NH-models and the RH1 by themselves and the 2nd gen through the PC - can even create legacy discs playable in legacy players, but only on the old type of discs (60, 74 or 80 min discs)

[The Low Volta]

PS: I just read the article the author of the above piece referenced in his paper for the part you quoted and I'm quite sure that it is actually just a misintepretation or at least a sloppy representation by E. Paul Ratazzi of the article he references...

the article referenced just explains how the high density HiMD discs can be high density without changing the wavelenght of the laser. It does not say anything about other differences between the magneto-optical read and write-system of HiMD and (net)MD which were needed and which cause the actual fact (tested end tried) that you can't use 1gb discs (nor standard discs reformated to HiMD) in legacy recorders/players...

HiMD discs (= three layered) use an extra switching layer which requires a different behaviour of the read/write-system than the standard (=legacy, two layered) discs. They have been able to design a HiMD read and write system that allows this extra behaviour AND still does the old trick (= the existing backwards compatibility). This is something completely different than saying that the old behaviour works with the new three-layered discs as well (= what could be understood when reading Ratazzi's paper)

[ratazzi]

Mea culpa.

What might have been clearer is:

"DWDD allows Hi-MD units to use lasers of the same wavelength as earlier units, thus retaining backwards compatibility with older media."

Thanks,

Paul

[The Low Volta]

thanks for clearing that up Paul... loved the paper! nice to see someone taking the the format serious enough to write a scientific paper on

[bobt]

pressed CDs have a long life expectancy, but CDr is known to become unreliable after 10-15 years (and from personal experience, I've seen it happen that the top layer of well stored CDr's starts to flake and the discs become unreadable)

also, if one is willing to use HiMD discs, one can easily store music in lossless PCM (if you want to be able to play it on the portable) and as data (but not able to be played by the HiMD) in any other lossless format you like

Hi LV,

I have many LP records dating from the 1950's and up that are still very playable, but in 20 years and hundreds of CD's I have probably lost 30% of them to losing the reflective layer rendering them useless.

Many things CD's are, but long lasting, no way.

JMHO

Bob

[The Low Volta]

strange, with pressed CD's I haven't had any problems (they do press a protective layer on top of the reflective layer I believe) but what you describe has happened to CDr's quite a couple of times (and even within shorter periods)

so we're actually saying the same thing... only your experiences make CD's even less trustworthy

[bobt]

strange, with pressed CD's I haven't had any problems (they do press a protective layer on top of the reflective layer I believe) but what you describe has happened to CDr's quite a couple of times (and even within shorter periods)

so we're actually saying the same thing... only your experiences make CD's even less trustworthy

especially since the early CD commercials showed CD's being used as frisbees, stepped on, and everything but being fed to the dog, and the being played. Hell, most of mine won't even play with a fingerprint on them.

But they do sound good, and are reasonably portable, but not as portable as MD (had to get that in)

Bob

[jrcoup1]

PS: I just read the article the author of the above piece referenced in his paper for the part you quoted and I'm quite sure that it is actually just a misintepretation or at least a sloppy representation by E. Paul Ratazzi of the article he references...

the article referenced just explains how the high density HiMD discs can be high density without changing the wavelenght of the laser. It does not say anything about other differences between the magneto-optical read and write-system of HiMD and (net)MD which were needed and which cause the actual fact (tested end tried) that you can't use 1gb discs (nor standard discs reformated to HiMD) in legacy recorders/players...

HiMD discs (= three layered) use an extra switching layer which requires a different behaviour of the read/write-system than the standard (=legacy, two layered) discs. They have been able to design a HiMD read and write system that allows this extra behaviour AND still does the old trick (= the existing backwards compatibility). This is something completely different than saying that the old behaviour works with the new three-layered discs as well (= what could be understood when reading Ratazzi's paper)

Volta (and also Paul),

Thanks for clarifying this. I too enjoyed Ratazzi's paper.

[Sly Fox]

Paul Ratazzi at Rensselaer Lally School of Management has written a report entitled MiniDisc: Successful Innovation or Just Cool Technology? - An Analysis of Sony’s Decade-Long Quest for Success. He does a good job of covering Minidisc's history and development. From the report: President Ohga bestowed “corporate status” on the MD project, at the time something which had only been done for Betamax, 8mm cameras, and the CD player. This high level support enabled Sony to quickly bring together existing complementary assets and technologies for rapid innovation.

This is a really intresting topic, but sadly the link didnt work for me.

Any chance someone could put the link up again ?

Or is it just my fault ?

Thanks in advance

Sly Fox

[Hungerdunger]

Try this link.

[sfbp]

Two interesting points leaped out from this report at me:

1. The connection allowing PC->MD from the Xitel company of Australia "saved MD by accident"

2. The author of the report judged that MD was finally accepted in some de facto manner in 2001, which fit with my own decision to get into MD in 2002.

Mind you, my own interest was always in recording, and going from other media via MD to CD, but that is probably (although maybe not for the folks here) an unusual motivation.

[Strungup]

Try this link.

Hunger Dude ->>> Thank You !

[bobt]

Hunger Dude ->>> Thank You !

Good one

Bob