mariocel Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Hi everyone, I am sorry if this has been posted before or if I posted it in the wrong place Ok, what I want to say and shear with ya is my concern about one thing that you maybe already know: Why Sony hates Mp3´s??? That "so called" compatibilty is bullshit and what Sonic Stage can do to any Mp3 is just a crime!!I mean, they say that there´s no change to the format through SS and surprisingly all the lows and highs are cut and the result is a shitty sound that no one would like to hear. But yeah, I guess they do it so you can see a difference between their Atrac format and mp3, but this is fake!!! I mean, Atrac is a great format but why not let us choose what we want? It´d be great to just drag and drop stuff and hear it right away, without the use of SS. Will they ever hear our complains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Whether intentional or not, the crippled mp3 playback seems to be fixed now in their latest unit, the RH1. Still no drag&drop though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDGB2 Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Is it possible to drag n drop Atrac files? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 yes, as unplayable data-files (like a USB-stick)no, not as playable music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pata2001 Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 It´d be great to just drag and drop stuff and hear it right away, without the use of SS. Will they ever hear our complains? Same thing with iPods, you have to use iTunes (although there are 3rd party hacks/programs) to transfer music. Some other DAPs also require software (eg. WMP). At least Sony HiMD/Network walkman are recognized as UMS device, unlike some DAPs that are MTP devices, which only work with WinXP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 ...At least Sony HiMD/Network walkman are recognized as UMS device, unlike some DAPs that are MTP devices, which only work with WinXP.Since SonicStage itself only works on Windows that not much of an advantage is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pata2001 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Since SonicStage itself only works on Windows that not much of an advantage is it.But at least you can use the device as a file storage with any other OS. MTP devices are useless on non-WinXP system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Whether intentional or not, the crippled mp3 playback seems to be fixed now in their latest unit, the RH1. Still no drag&drop though.So, it´s through a unit? It makes no sense to me coz it´d be more practical through the software. So we have to get that model only for such thing, and without the drag & drop utility! and I am pretty sure that they still use the USB 1.1 or something. Are the guys at Sony idiots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skradgee Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 So, it´s through a unit? It makes no sense to me coz it´d be more practical through the software. So we have to get that model only for such thing, and without the drag & drop utility! and I am pretty sure that they still use the USB 1.1 or something. Are the guys at Sony idiots?Actually, USB 2.0 is now supported...but only with the RH1. All other Hi-MD models use a previous USB standard.Sony has been slowly easing up on digital rights management over the past year or so. Products that are unfriendly and difficult to use do not create happy customers. You might get drag and drop someday, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. Hmmmm. Maybe Sony could allow drag and drop for MP3s, but not Atrac files. That could be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 But at least you can use the device as a file storage with any other OS. MTP devices are useless on non-WinXP system.Well I don't see the point of using HiMD as a 1GB USB1.1 storage when you can buy a 4G USB 2.0 memory stick for half the price of a HiMD unit. IMO its a half assed feature without without USB2 and drag and drop for music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungerdunger Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well I don't see the point of using HiMD as a 1GB USB1.1 storage when you can buy a 4G USB 2.0 memory stick for half the price of a HiMD unit. IMO its a half assed feature without without USB2 and drag and drop for music.There's no point in getting a hi-MD just for data storage, but if you want one for recording and playing anyway, then the additional feature of being able to store 1Gb of data for less than 5 UKP is quite attractive, if like me, you want to be able to move data around from one location to another. (and if you're not in too much of a hurry!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony_Fan Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 So, it´s through a unit? It makes no sense to me coz it´d be more practical through the software. So we have to get that model only for such thing, and without the drag & drop utility! and I am pretty sure that they still use the USB 1.1 or something. Are the guys at Sony idiots?Yes they are! They refuse to add MEGABASS to the Hi-MD units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamewing Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) Actually, USB 2.0 is now supported...but only with the RH1. All other Hi-MD models use a previous USB standard.Sony has been slowly easing up on digital rights management over the past year or so. Products that are unfriendly and difficult to use do not create happy customers. You might get drag and drop someday, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. Hmmmm. Maybe Sony could allow drag and drop for MP3s, but not Atrac files. That could be fair.USB 2.0 may be supported, but that doesn't mean the unit will take full advantage of the speed of USB 2.0, merely that it is "compatible" with USB 2.0. That is like saying the earlier MD units were "compatible" with mp3. The speed restraints have everything to do with the write speed of the optical block, which just isn't that fast compared to a HDD or USB 2.0 flash units.I would like to see true drag and drop of music files to the unit - with playback. Edited June 26, 2006 by lamewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 There's no point in getting a hi-MD just for data storage, but if you want one for recording and playing anyway, then the additional feature of being able to store 1Gb of data for less than 5 UKP is quite attractive, if like me, you want to be able to move data around from one location to another. (and if you're not in too much of a hurry!) You have to add the price of a machine to that. Not in a hurry is an understatement. They are glacially slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 USB 2.0 may be supported, but that doesn't mean the unit will take full advantage of the speed of USB 2.0, merely that it is "compatible" with USB 2.0. That is like saying the earlier MD units were "compatible" with mp3. The speed restraints have everything to do with the write speed of the optical block, which just isn't that fast compared to a HDD or USB 2.0 flash units.I would like to see true drag and drop of music files to the unit - with playback.In fact it´d be great a Firewire connection but since Sony engineers are so...stingy? but well, not even Ipod are using it in their new gen. Anyway, I think they could make that optical block to work faster than previous ones, that way I don´t see any reason to get a flash memory. Again, I think Im dreaming.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Whats the point of firewire on a HiMD or a HD player. It wouldn't take advantage of the extra speed and is a less common standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberman Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 In fact it´d be great a Firewire connection but since Sony engineers are so...stingy?I don´t think it´s the engineers. Rather the marketing, afraid you´d use it to "steal" their precious. (music) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Whats the point of firewire on a HiMD or a HD player. It wouldn't take advantage of the extra speed and is a less common standard.Mmm well, as I said, if they improve the optical block it would make it really faster than a flash memory and we wouldn´t be thinking about buying one of these just because our Hi-md is soooo slow. And yeah, it´s not as common right now but it will be with time I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I don´t think it´s the engineers. Rather the marketing, afraid you´d use it to "steal" their precious. (music)When u insert a 1 Gb. disc into a Net Md player it reads right away that it´s the Hi- Md media and that can´t be playable or readable. I wonder: how come a unit that was made in ´02 (in the case of mine) has information about Hi- Md if it was made like two years later?? was it made long ago?It seems to me that they deliver their formats and units little by little so they could get more money. It´s not a honest thing ´cause now you can get Net Md players very cheap, but back in the day they were so expensive.And maybe now they have in their hands the model that will see the light in ´08, that could have a lot of improvements.... who knows? But in the meantime we are wasting our money on units that lack of a lot of things. Yeah, those engineers may work hard but the managers say the last word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mmm well, as I said, if they improve the optical block it would make it really faster than a flash memory and we wouldn´t be thinking about buying one of these just because our Hi-md is soooo slow. And yeah, it´s not as common right now but it will be with time I guess.Speed differences over USB 2.0 would be insignificant on a portable player. FW has been around for over 10years and is older than USB 1.1 never mind USB2.0. Its as common as it will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Speed differences over USB 2.0 would be insignificant on a portable player. FW has been around for over 10years and is older than USB 1.1 never mind USB2.0. Its as common as it will ever be.A friend of mine owns an Ipod with Firewire and another one (more recent) with a USB connection and believe me, the one with Firewire is really fast. I did ignore how old FW is, but I think that it´s great. Now I wonder if the difference it´s about whether if it´s a HD or a Flash mem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Depends on the circumstance of the test. At best in a sustained operation it can be almost twice as fast. However it simply not as widespread so unless you really need the speed USB is more useful. Firewire comes into its own on data I/O intensive applications like Video processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Or digital music recording through a soundcard. Mmm, then maybe it´s not suitable for Hi-Md stuff. Anyway, I don´t think that Sony would make any changes like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Or digital music recording through a soundcard. Mmm, then maybe it´s not suitable for Hi-Md stuff. Anyway, I don´t think that Sony would make any changes like that.Whats that got to do with FW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamewing Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Depends on the circumstance of the test. At best in a sustained operation it can be almost twice as fast. However it simply not as widespread so unless you really need the speed USB is more useful. Firewire comes into its own on data I/O intensive applications like Video processing.Yep. If have two iPods, one FW the other USB 2.0 and are filling it with 40GB+ of music, then YES, the FW will be faster than USB 2.0. But how often would you be filling the entire HDD with music? After the first time, most folks are going to add a few songs at a time and then the speed difference will be negilible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungerdunger Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 When u insert a 1 Gb. disc into a Net Md player it reads right away that it´s the Hi- Md media and that can´t be playable or readable. I wonder: how come a unit that was made in ´02 (in the case of mine) has information about Hi- Md if it was made like two years later?? was it made long ago?I think you're ignoring the obvious explanation that the engineers have designed the Hi-MD discs so that if one is inserted into a non-Hi-MD machine it will provide that machine with sufficient data for it to give that message. It happens even with my old JB-940 deck which pre-dates Hi-MD by several years.Perhaps someone with better technical knowledge than me can give a better explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I think you're ignoring the obvious explanation that the engineers have designed the Hi-MD discs so that if one is inserted into a non-Hi-MD machine it will provide that machine with sufficient data for it to give that message. It happens even with my old JB-940 deck which pre-dates Hi-MD by several years.Perhaps someone with better technical knowledge than me can give a better explanation.That's correct. Similar thing happens if you put an MDLP disc in a non-MDLP unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Someone help me out here - is this thread actually going anywhere? It's gone from crippled MP3 playback, to USB 2.0 to ??? with the usual megabass rant from Chris G. All of these points have been discussed at length elsewhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, to be slightly back on topic... I would like to see comparison charts for the RH1 mp3 vs atrac situation. Someone did these back when the RH10 came out. Is that going somewhere richyhu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, to be slightly back on topic... I would like to see comparison charts for the RH1 mp3 vs atrac situation. Someone did these back when the RH10 came out. Is that going somewhere richyhu? That'll do - I believe Marck put some in the RH1 review at http://www.mdcenter.nl/artikelen/mzrh1/index_en.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raintheory Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 That'll do - I believe Marck put some in the RH1 review at http://www.mdcenter.nl/artikelen/mzrh1/index_en.php Perfect! Thanks! Still looks like the mp3 drops of slightly before atrac even with teh RH1... Nowhere near as much as with the RH10 though, which is great. Would be interesting to see the frequency analysis of that same thing but not actually played back through a unit. So we can really see how much the unit is contributing to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariocel Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Whats that got to do with FW? We were talking of speed through a Firewire connection. In several audio software through a souncard or a digital mix it is better FW than USB due to the latency in recording. But as I said before, it´s hard that Sony would make any change from USB to FW.Yep. If have two iPods, one FW the other USB 2.0 and are filling it with 40GB+ of music, then YES, the FW will be faster than USB 2.0. But how often would you be filling the entire HDD with music? After the first time, most folks are going to add a few songs at a time and then the speed difference will be negilible. It´s not only music. How about data?That's correct. Similar thing happens if you put an MDLP disc in a non-MDLP unit.Really? Oh, then I´m paranoid!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 We were talking of speed through a Firewire connection. In several audio software through a souncard or a digital mix it is better FW than USB due to the latency in recording. But as I said before, it´s hard that Sony would make any change from USB to FW.I suspect thats FW vs USB1.1 But regardless what has latency to do with HiMD/MD though?I wish my HiMD had faster transfer aswell. Its one of the bit drawbacks of the player. I'd like to know the specifics of how the RH1 achieves faster speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATELETRONICS Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 jusyt guessing but maybe the speed is almost the same just with all the drm crap taken out so it actually seems much faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 While that make a difference, I doubt it makes that much of a difference. Maybe it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 It's easy to add speed to an optical recorder - increase spindle speed. The RH(9)10 goes to 3000 RPM whereas the RH1 redlines at 3600 RPM cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamewing Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 I think you're ignoring the obvious explanation that the engineers have designed the Hi-MD discs so that if one is inserted into a non-Hi-MD machine it will provide that machine with sufficient data for it to give that message. It happens even with my old JB-940 deck which pre-dates Hi-MD by several years.Perhaps someone with better technical knowledge than me can give a better explanation.Can confirm this on my MD40 deck as well. I think there are two files that the older units can see and one is a place-holder file that displays HiMD disc or something to that effect. This isn't an example of Sony spoon feeding us the technology, but merely them providing us with a simple alert that we inserted the wrong disc. No conspiricy here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 It's easy to add speed to an optical recorder - increase spindle speed. The RH(9)10 goes to 3000 RPM whereas the RH1 redlines at 3600 RPM cheersWould the laser keep up though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdog Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Is the crippled mp3 a playback issue or a recording issue? I wonder because I have recorded a lot of mp3 MDs with my RH10 and they sound pretty shitty but will these same MDs sound ok in the R1 or any subsequent model should I upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 You can't record in the MP3 format on a HiMD. If you mean you have transferred them? The RH1 is meant to have better playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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