Will Hi-CDs be released?

[Guest Gray Rider]

This way you can record the same amount of stuff as a hi-MD disc except have it in CD quality. Or what about Blue-ray minidiscs which give even more space? Sony should atleast release Hi-CDs...

[Sparky191]

Oops I missunderstood your question. Basically a Hard Drive is a Hi CD in effect. With online stores and digtial downloads you can fit as much as you want on a Hardisk. You can carry it around on a Hard Disk Audio Player. Like a iPod etc.

I thought originally you meant better quality formats as below....

SACD and DVDA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Audio_CD

You might be interested in this thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189505

Heres a store to check out

http://store.acousticsounds.com/

Edited July 18, 2007 by Sparky191

[BobS]

Sony has many CD players that support ATRAC3. They use SonicStage, just like MD. You can use the same bit rates you use on MD.

[doomlordis]

Interesting question, thomson have invented a way to store 10 times as much data on a cd/dvd/bluray disc and have patented it, it works by splitting the laser into 2 and manipulating the pits into different shapes from the standard lozenge shape (rough description). I think any player can read them but they need to be written with a new writer.

I think it will be your Hi-CD.

[Sparky191]

I dunno why you'd limit yourself to a 1GB disk or a 4 or 8GB disc when you can have a 60 or 80GB one.

[Guest Gray Rider]

I dunno why you'd limit yourself to a 1GB disk or a 4 or 8GB disc when you can have a 60 or 80GB one.

I've tried ipods and I don't like the way it sounds. I like the sound from CD and minidisc better. I would much prefer it if sony released Hi-CDs or blue-ray minidiscs because the sound is much better in my opinion.

[Sparky191]

I've tried ipods and I don't like the way it sounds. I like the sound from CD and minidisc better. I would much prefer it if sony released Hi-CDs or blue-ray minidiscs because the sound is much better in my opinion.

Sony do, (or did) hard disk players aswell. Theres lots of other companies do them as well. What your saying doesn't make sense. The digital medium makes no difference to the sound.

[THIS SUCKS]

they cannot make pre recorded hi-md's!

[BobS]

Of course pre-recorded HiMDs could be made. Cassettes were made for years. Just use a mass duplicator on a regular HiMD discs. They would not be pressed, as most CDs (and original pre mastered MDs), but many small labels use CD-Rs. This would be the same thing. Only with 94 minutes of CD sound, room for documentation etc they could offer extras CDs do not

[Sparky191]

Of course pre-recorded HiMDs could be made. Cassettes were made for years. Just use a mass duplicator on a regular HiMD discs. They would not be pressed, as most CDs (and original pre mastered MDs), but many small labels use CD-Rs. This would be the same thing. Only with 94 minutes of CD sound, room for documentation etc they could offer extras CDs do not

I think you'd get a lot of filler material as artists struggled to fill the space. A lot of double and even triple albums aren't that great.

[mmp64]

Sony do, (or did) hard disk players aswell. Theres lots of other companies do them as well. What your saying doesn't make sense. The digital medium makes no difference to the sound.

For a long time, I thought that the reason I liked Minidisc better than other DAPs (including iPods and Creative devices) was because ATRAC was superior to MP3. Later I realized it was the Sony hardware, not the codec. At least IMHO.

[Sparda]

In a sense wouldn't DVDs qualify as a 'Hi-CD'? Like are you looking for a medium with more storage capacity? Why not go for HDDs? Its the hardware that matters after all (for SQ), not the medium.

[Strungup]

In a sense wouldn't DVDs qualify as a 'Hi-CD'? Like are you looking for a medium with more storage capacity? Why not go for HDDs? Its the hardware that matters after all (for SQ), not the medium.

well if DVD classes as the Hi CD then this would be the recorder

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php

Now if this was only HI MD .... WOW

[e1ghtyf1ve]

it's the Sony DAC & other hardware that give that specific colouring to Sony's sound in some way, I guess.

Actually, many of us don't like the PortalPlayer's Wikipedia sound colorations, and consider Sony, Sharp, Marantz, etc. as known good purveyors of excellent, minimally-colored sound. More quality, and less bling, please!

PS Hard drives as an option are terrible in so many ways it's not even funny. The least of which is the reliability issue...

[bobt]

well if DVD classes as the Hi CD then this would be the recorder

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php

Now if this was only HI MD .... WOW

That is beautiful, a knob twirlers dream com true, I agree with wiz that a Hi-MD attachment would be neat, can one plug in optically?? Also how much>, probably more than a dollar!!!

Bob

[Sparky191]

...

PS Hard drives as an option are terrible in so many ways it's not even funny. The least of which is the reliability issue...

Thats a tired old argument. HD failure is waaaaaaay over stated.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Thats a tired old argument. HD failure is waaaaaaay over stated.

Hoooray! No more backups needed - who'd a'thunk it?!

Back from the land o'dreams, increasing optical disk density is inevitable, and barring some miracle, it ain't gonna be in the MD format. But let's see who really will win the new DVD format war first?

Cheers

[Sparky191]

Hoooray! No more backups needed - who'd a'thunk it?!...

I imagine all those people who lost MD recordings, wish they could get a backup.

[bobzilli]

I hjave never lost a MD or HIMD recording, and that goes back to the first MD unit Sony made, which I still have. Hard drives on the other hand have been an ongoing source of grief for me. I've had two of them dioe ome and lost everything both times. Now I consider them a convienience and not a storage platform

[Strungup]

Is the Sour Moon an MZ-1 owner as well???

Then you dont have reason to be "Sour "

A source of Respect this is , Original MZ1 , very close to the Source this one hmmmm , and speaks well does this one hmmm,

See I do , the Source in this one , train we must the way of the Source .

[Strungup]

Maybe, but my issues with them makes me have much more understanding for SourMilkMoon's standpoint, and me choosing Hi-MD for backup. At least if I do loose something on Hi-MD, it will only be 1GB of data. I've had many HDDs die on me, as well as CD-R/RWs...

Me 2 . I have had to replace a lot of hard drives , I have yet to replace an MD

Hard drives are in constant use , if it is conected to your computer it is in use , They have a Limited Cycle Life , and is usaully stated by the manufacturer what the Cycle life is , MD on the other hand is Not in Constant use , only when you need it , which drastically prolongs the life of the disc.

To tout HD as THE storage medium is foolish , new HD 's are being developed that will replace these in use now and the formats will be different ,

Seagate already has 1 terrabytes that will fit in a standard slot , use 3 platters and a condensed vertical data stacking system , they will be on the market end of this year .

Flash drives are coming , organic mediums are being developed , to say that or stick with HD as the medium , is shooting yourself in the foot.

[Sparky191]

I dunno what you guys are doing. We run a clustered disk array thats up 24/7 multiple heavy duty applications with thousands of users across the entire country and we don't have any significant problems with bad bad disks. Neither do our desktops or notebooks again across thousands of users. In 10+yrs I've only had about 2 of my own HD fail and I've had one 2 Minidisc recorders had laser fail and about 3 MD's in 100 fail. I've not lost data in any of those situations, HD or MD.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Sparky191

[Strungup]

I dunno what you guys are doing. We run a clustered disk array thats up 24/7 multiple heavy duty applications with thousands of users across the entire country and we don't have any significant problems with bad bad disks. Neither do our desktops or notebooks again across thousands of users. In 10+yrs I've only had about 2 of my own HD fail and I've had one 2 Minidisc recorders had laser fail and about 3 MD's in 100 fail. I've not lost data in any of those situations, HD or MD.

If you are running clustered arrays in a server setting then you are using industrial grade drives , Big difference between that and consumer drives

Which are designed to fail , it a Money thing , supply and demand . when it breaks you have to buy a new one , whereas server grade systems have businesses depending on them , A company would get a Bad name very quickly if the Business system started failing all the time .

But for consumer stuff to fail , is just good business sense

[bobzilli]

Yes, I have an MZ-1. Don't use it much but can't seem to part with it. A great machine. The best built electronic device I've ever owned

[Sparky191]

If you are running clustered arrays in a server setting then you are using industrial grade drives , Big difference between that and consumer drives

Which are designed to fail , it a Money thing , supply and demand . when it breaks you have to buy a new one , whereas server grade systems have businesses depending on them , A company would get a Bad name very quickly if the Business system started failing all the time .

But for consumer stuff to fail , is just good business sense

I said we had the same low failure rate on our desktops and laptops. If computer HDs had the same failure rate your suggesting people would be failing over themselves to do backups. However most most people rarely do them because they rarely experience a problem. Thats all.

What about DRM on all these formats?

[tekdroid]

This way you can record the same amount of stuff as a hi-MD disc except have it in CD quality.

Hi-MD can already record in CD-quality, but you reminded me of TDK and Calimetrics' ML (MultiLevel) CD technology.

http://www.tdk.com/procommon/press/article...on&recid=95

They announced it, I was looking forward to it, but it never hit the market (they decided against releasing it).

Something about DVD recorders dropping in price, I reckon

I think investment in a whole new portable spinning disc format will not be made by Sony. I'd love to be wrong, though. If they do it, I think they would want to use it for video as well as audio. Decent transfer rates for 24/96 recording on a nice lil' disc and say...10GB.

IMO, it would need to be good enough to sell it for at least 5 years successfully. Marketing and distribution of a new format is not cheap. No sense going into it with incremental improvements (unless it's backwards compatible like Hi-MD is)

But let's face it: if Sony wanted to, they could make a droolworthy affordable flash-based recorder with many (but not all) of the good Hi-MD features and without many of its disadvantages, and 99% of the portable recording/playback market would be satisfied. They just don't want to.

[Richard]

* Moved to Off-Topic section

[Sparky191]

No reason their current 8GB flash players couldn't be made to record. They obviously don't see theres a big enough market for it.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Sparky191

[e1ghtyf1ve]

If you are running clustered arrays in a server setting then you are using industrial grade drives , Big difference between that and consumer drives

Which are designed to fail , it a Money thing , supply and demand . when it breaks you have to buy a new one , whereas server grade systems have businesses depending on them , A company would get a Bad name very quickly if the Business system started failing all the time .

But for consumer stuff to fail , is just good business sense

Good sense, you speak, wise one!

Except for Mr. Hard Drive, here I believe we know what were talking about when it comes to long term backups. In my organization with many thousands of employees (that narrows it down a bit ) people get fired for using our many Terabyte arrays for backups. In fact, I recall having to lay off a couple of them for not taking this seriously enough.

'Nuff said.

[Sparky191]

Good sense, you speak, wise one!

Except for Mr. Hard Drive, here I believe we know what were talking about when it comes to long term backups. In my organization with many thousands of employees (that narrows it down a bit ) people get fired for using our many Terabyte arrays for backups. In fact, I recall having to lay off a couple of them for not taking this seriously enough.

'Nuff said.

LOL BOFH. Any other random SOP you'd like to share?

[bobt]

Thats a tired old argument. HD failure is waaaaaaay over stated.

I've had five or six in about eight years, way to many if you ask me, and I'm not alone in theis region

Bob

[Sparky191]

I've had five or six in about eight years, way to many if you ask me, and I'm not alone in theis region

Bob

Glad to hear your not alone where you live. Maybe buy better disks? Thats terrible rate.

[Strungup]

Sparky , you know that all the cool gadjets are in Japan right ? , and the availability of MOST of them are limted in other countries Right?

Or altogether different models issued to foriegn markets . Then Same thing happens with food , Spam (Yes that canned wonder of slicable torture)

Spam is 6.96 a Can here in Japan , comes in several Flavors. in the US it is 69 cents a can and better quality.

The Us will send out "B" grade stuff to certain markets and jack uo the Price , Every country does it , that includes Electronics , My wife Complained CONSTANTLY , EVERY FRIGGIN DAY for 12 years while we lived in the US , I couldnt understand until I came here .

There are basically two brands of Sake served in the US , and both of them are BAD , there are probably 2,000 here and the Japanese DO NOT TOLERATE bad Sake , beleive me .

Global marketization effects every single market , Including the Computer sector, I could buy the exact same model hard drive that you , but it would be the same in Label only , or Package .

The stuff that gets sent around the world , is very carefully targeted to maximise profits , "The stuff that goes here , we'll get it made in China , the stuff that goes there , get that made at the Malyasia plant , and oh for that UK market use the Philipines plant for that , a little better control rates there"

You wouldnt believe the crap that gets packaged as "GOOD" and sent out .

For someone living in a modern world , you just dont see it very well , I am not Flaming you just making a very valid point that I dont think your considering .

Terrible failure rates exist for a reason . and they DO exist .

Dos Paras is a discount Computer parts supply here in Japan , and they are setup mostly in Hidden off street , or Alley setups because they are a Foreign supply , so the Japan Economic association doesnt want to much exposure for them . yet they are on of the busiest places around , all the Otaku get their stuff from there , but Joe Blo consumer who doesnt know any better will go to Yodobashi, or Sofmap GigaStore. and endup paying three or four times as much and getting a lesser product .

Now Play nice and listen to at least SOME of what others are saying to you

Edited July 21, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[e1ghtyf1ve]

LOL BOFH. Any other random SOP you'd like to share?

Nope. You can argue with the rest of the world on your own. Don't need my help, apparently.

[Sparky191]

...

For someone living in a modern world , you just dont see it very well , I am not Flaming you just making a very valid point that I dont think your considering .

Terrible failure rates exist for a reason . and they DO exist . ...

I'm only expressing an opinion.

I'm not saying or denying that they don't exist, just that its not the norm that I've experienced. However a lot of MiniDisc'ers seem to have drives failing constantly! Bit like how on other forums people seem to have no end of issue with MD and SS, which is something I haven't experience either.

In my own experience, I'm more likely to find a situation of someone who hasn't backed up their data in a couple of years, (one guy 7 years) than someone with a disc thats failed. I do see disk failures, but tbh they tend to be brand new disks that fail within a month or two of getting them, rather than drives that have been up for a year or so. My oldest drive at home is in a Quadra 800, 230mb SCSI. Must be 14yrs old. Still used for the kids. Yeah and I know older drives especially SCSI were better built and thats a fair comment. I just don't see what I'd consider high failure rates. I've only got about 6 drives at home, only one of them is less than 2yrs old. 4 of them are externals and much abused carting them between locations.

I agree with you point(s) about all things are not made equal. Which why I would avoid buying all the same model or brand drives and where I can, mix them up. My own experience is that you tend to get a bad batch rather than any specific use case that creates failures more frequently than another. I avoid certain brands though. I'd probably see slightly higher rates than this guy, but close enough...

...I have a mix of 400 and 500GB Hitachi SATA drives, 148 in total in my datacenter and I have had 1 failure in just over one year. That drive was about 3 weeks old at the time it failed. I also have about 125 Maxtor drives in an EMC Clariion that is 3 years old. I get around 6 failures per year on that box...

http://www.allthingsdistributed.com/2007/0...f_hard_dis.html

Edited July 22, 2007 by Sparky191

[Strungup]

Fair statement , accepted

[tekdroid]

No reason their current 8GB flash players couldn't be made to record. They obviously don't see theres a big enough market for it.

More like they are protecting their investment in Hi-MD, IMO. Even with their PCM-D1, they are careful not to reach Hi-MD equivalence when it comes to trackmarking, etc.

Edited July 22, 2007 by tekdroid

[Stuge]

Hmm what is this Hi-cd ?

[Sparky191]

More like they are protecting their investment in Hi-MD, IMO. Even with their PCM-D1, they are careful not to reach Hi-MD equivalence when it comes to trackmarking, etc.

I don't get that. If theres no more HiMD being made theres nothing to protect.

[Sparda]

well if DVD classes as the Hi CD then this would be the recorder

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php

Now if this was only HI MD .... WOW

LOL, oh wow, I thought that thing looked like a miniature nuclear power plant. And those knobs on top is where you insert the nuclear rods.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Sparda