Minidisc a "useless gadget"

[MikeRofone]

According to a blog by Jason Stamper on Computer Business Review, Minidisc (spelled “Mini disk” in the writeup) as number 14 in the top 20 “Britain’s most useless gadgets” Interesting, when the site that supposedly commissioned the survey that led to the list is checked (revoo.com), not much more than a “this place for rent” is visible.

[raintheory]

Very odd list any way you look at it. haha.

[DWTB]

According to a blog by Jason Stamper on Computer Business Review, Minidisc (spelled “Mini disk” in the writeup) as number 14 in the top 20 “Britain’s most useless gadgets” Interesting, when the site that supposedly commissioned the survey that led to the list is checked (revoo.com), not much more than a “this place for rent” is visible.

Hi guys, I work for Reevoo so I just thought I'd get in there and let you know that the site was actually www.reevoo.com. It was just spelt wrong on that blog. I'm also quite relieved that we spell Minidisc the right way.

[agafly]

Well Jason Stamper(?) You have a sad obsession with electric nail files and foot spas and things that the rest of the world easily ignores and clearly you have never even owned a miNi......diSk......... I just wish you a facial tan to die for......

For the people who really know, ....MD will still be in use long long after your virgin career is forgotten.....

[Syrius]

Burn the nonbelievers! Buuuuuuuurrrnnnnnn!

[shione]

When Minidisc first came out, it certainly was not useless. It was meant to take on cassette tapes and it succeeded in being superior to it in every way. It's downfall was the idiotic superficial restrictions sony entertainment put on it.

[BIGHMW]

When Minidisc first came out, it certainly was not useless. It was meant to take on cassette tapes and it succeeded in being superior to it in every way. It's downfall was the idiotic superficial restrictions sony entertainment put on it.

Sony themselves killed the MiniDisc, the Hi-MD and the ATRAC codec, with years of restrictive mismanagement.

We sure as hell didn't kill it, we all embraced it for the undeniable fact that you could record, edit, and move tracks, all digitally, and without the use of an external computer, it was all done by the MD recorder itself. It only got better and more advanced with such advances as MDLP, which allowed up to 5 hours, 20 minutes on a single 80-miniute disc, NetMD in 2002 and Hi-MD in 2004, which allowed downloads of music to MD or Hi-MD and with the codecs ATRAC 4.5, Type R, Type S, ATRAC3, and ATRAC3Plus, and also, last but not least, with the 2006 debuts of the MZ-RH1 and the MZ-M200, uploading of legacy MD format to a PC, like I do for later use on my ATRAC-compatible NW-HD5 DAP.

Useless my a**, next time do your research before you blurt that crap out about MD.

[KHA]

Yeah, these people don't know how much we venerate our Holy MD...

We should try to convert more people to the Holy MD faith!

[KJ_Palmer]

Well, er MD's not useless. I use mine every day!

[aafuss]

Me too-it's not that useless: my MZ-R700 makes great recordings from any source.

I can even record to MD, songs in iTunes streamed via a Sony HWS-BTA2W bluetooth adaptor kit.

[theblueraja]

Sony themselves killed the MiniDisc, the Hi-MD and the ATRAC codec, with years of restrictive mismanagement.

Amen.

Anyone who thinks MD is "useless" doesn't understand how to use MD.

[dezza76]

i just inherited an mz-n505 type r from my late fathers estate. he swore by it and i've just played it for the first time and i'm impressed. unfortunately i know nothing about it and have no software. u guys sound pretty passionate about these could someone help me out? consider me a convert if all goes well...

[Strungup]

i just inherited an mz-n505 type r from my late fathers estate. he swore by it and i've just played it for the first time and i'm impressed. unfortunately i know nothing about it and have no software. u guys sound pretty passionate about these could someone help me out? consider me a convert if all goes well...

Hey , good to have you join us

Here is some info about your MD and a Link for a Manual

http://minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-N505.html

Scroll down for the Manual

[theblueraja]

i just inherited an mz-n505 type r from my late fathers estate. he swore by it and i've just played it for the first time and i'm impressed. unfortunately i know nothing about it and have no software. u guys sound pretty passionate about these could someone help me out? consider me a convert if all goes well...

Wow, its hard to believe we can still have converts these days Welcome to the fold (I hope).

Keep us posted on your progress and feel free to post any questions/concerns.

[LeftyGorilla]

Hi, first post, so please know I am not trolling nor looking for a thorough flaming, but...this thread caught my eye because I fear my once treasured MD player may in fact now be a useless gadget. Help me figure out why it isn't?

I bought a Sony MZ-R700 back in 2001 for a trip to India, knowing I would want to record a lot and also to have as much music with me in as compact a space...it was without question *the* best solution to these issues on the market at that time.

Well, I found my minidisc player tonight and I'm listening to some old music and recordings I made and I'm so happy to have recovered these things...even the LP2 (what 132kb/s?) sounds really clean. Things I recorded with a simple Sony mic sound great, too.

I still have the bundled toslink, so I can record optical out of, say, my laptop, but how is this any more convenient than ripping a CD to FLAC or high bitrate MP3 and putting it on my DAP? Also my DAP (Cowon D2) has a built-in mic and line-in for external mic that records up to 256 WMA. The only thing I've figured out is that my DAP does not support gapless playback, so I could record (say, Dark Side of the Moon) to minidisc (even as a single file!) and be able to hear it gaplessly.

Again, I would love to rekindle the enthusiasm I had for this player when I first got it. I remember running around my apartment listening to music and trying to get it to skip or cut out by jumping up and down, shaking it, etc. Amazing, really. I'm looking around the boards here...but any help...what are y'all using these things for now?

Thanks,

LG

[Hombre]

How can he say the back scratcher is useless? I use mine everyday!

Dude must be high.

[theblueraja]

Again, I would love to rekindle the enthusiasm I had for this player when I first got it. I remember running around my apartment listening to music and trying to get it to skip or cut out by jumping up and down, shaking it, etc. Amazing, really. I'm looking around the boards here...but any help...what are y'all using these things for now?

Thanks,

LG

Reading your post is a treat!

For one, in a way you've answered your own question.

1) You're appreciating how good it sounds

2) You have the desire to have "rekindled" enthusiasm... why? Because you recognize what a cool format MD really is... it was just poorly marketed and overlooked.

3) You recognize the durability and reliability of these devices.

Now, if I may still add a few thoughts of my own. For one, I've heard that the Cowon players offer great sound quality, and anything that's non-iPod gets kudos from me

But minidisc simply offers something no other units really offer these days. Let's first look at what mp3 players and the like offer:

1) huge capacity

2) relatively decent sound (they're slowly improving)

3) recording capability (becoming more common)

4) availability - extremely high... you can get one from the grocery store

5) bling - let's face it, video playback, phones, GPS, etc... all in your music player

Ok... what does minidisc offer

COOL FACTOR.

Is that it?? Well until just a few years ago, we could say it has the best sound, it records, etc., but that gap is (oooo I forgot 'gapless', but that just got fixed not long ago too for mp3 players) smaller each passing day. And I'm not even mentioning battery life because nowadays, unless you are on an island, you can have a unit charging anywhere (car, portable battery pack, the office, etc.)... yes, MD has much better battery life, mostly because there is not large illuminated screen sucking juice, but still not really important in today's rechargable world, in my opinion.

So what is this cool factor? Let's face it... a small, literally COMPACT disc that is in a PROTECTED plastic shell that can't get scratched, that is REWRITABLE, and INCREDIBLE sound quality and still looks futuristic, retro-punk cool is just downright awesome. This isn't for Generation Y much and certainly not Z, but if you grew up in a time when even burning your own CD-R was exciting, then you can understand part of the thought process behind why minidiscs are so amazing. But even that aside, you might also know how to appreciate ALBUM listening. I hate shuffle-play or being overwelmed by 10,000,000 songs to choose from. I love to grab a couple MDs and go, which with LP2 still gives me like 6 or more albums to choose from. Less is more as far as I'm concerned.

Minidisc is DIFFERENT. It is rare now, and for the most part you can only get units now via Ebay... so the HUNT is part of the fun! Show it off to friends, see their reaction. You'll get the "why not iPod?" reaction, but you'll also first get the "wow, what's THAT?" reaction too.

One more thought on sound quality. I bought an iPod a while back and tried ripping music to it in "lossless" wav format and it still sounded like complete crap to me. But that's because I like the SOUND SIGNATURE of ATRAC and the Sony units and their built in amps/eq's etc... so you have to see what your ears prefer.

I also love making minidisc LABELS and ARTWORK, just like the days of making tape compilations, or CD-Rs with face label printing... check out the threads for MD label art both in this forum and the Audio T-Board.

Anyway, plunge into these threads, look around and have fun... and take PICS of your unit! We love that. Welcome to the family. As we are small, and unique, its what draws us closer together

Edited September 23, 2008 by theblueraja

[baturjan]

theblueraja, I'm 38 years old, and you could not have said it better. You wrote my cultural core, when it comes to the minidisc!

One thing to add about taking a couple "MD-albums", is that artists usually have a message or theme to their album and the order of the songs. It may be strong or weak, but it's there. You don't get that when shuffling through hundreds of songs. I'm not against shuffling, or making compilations of different stuff, but if that's all you do, then you miss one of the main reasons the art was created for in the first place. Having said that, I understand that there is a rigidity to the format of an album with regard to the number of songs and length, which could lead to "making something up" to finish the album... I digress.

[Strungup]

baturjan , Raj .

well said ,. 42 here , and well "in the know" , about album listening , and the album as a whole and as a work of art in of itself .

The countless hours I have spent in studios to craft a theme , Not just a song , but a theme to the music , is a HUGE part of what the artist is about . And most private label artist are like that .

Windham Hill

Narada

GRS

Froggy Bottom

9th street records

and a list that is just too long to type

Albums need a theme for cohesion ........... Todays artists though , are under Big Corporate control and it is By the Song , package what you can , cohesion is lost , messages are eroded , and it is made for the iPod generation .

Amos Lee's first CD is a very Good example of Cohesion in an Album the second CD loses it , Because it was done for a different purpose. Raja , even though we had words , I want to say I really appreciate the wording of your post above , I agree with baturjan in saying "you couldn't have said it better "

Edited September 24, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[BIGHMW]

Well said, to both Fxr and Raj, well put.

Although I now use a 20GB NW-HD5 Network Walkman (ATRAC/SonicStage-supported) for most personal playback purpose, I still use MiniDisc (and to some extent Hi-MD, my lineup of MZ-RH1's are used for uploading to the HD5) for all of my studio recording, as well as home and car playback purposes, whether it be recording off an analog or digital or live source, or to make a straight 1-1 copy, or even to make one of my many custom compilations. Other than the CD-R/RW, there is nothing better still to this day, for recording purposes than the MiniDisc and Hi-MD format, no matter what those iSheep (and there are a lot of them on Head-Fi at http://www.Head-Fi.org believe me) try to tell you.

I own a ton of both legacy (MD/MDLP/NetMD) and Hi-MD units and would never give them up for any price!!!

Don't let them intimidate you into joining their cult. Let's see any of them (this means you, Cindy Margolis! Join us here on the MDCF and embrace the MD!!!) try to decipher what an MD is as well as what it is still all about, and how useful the format is still to this day, despite Sony and their RIAA-influenced, corporate, restrictive mismanagement of the format. That is what put MD on the brink of extinction, not us, the tons of those who swore their allegiance to the format under oath to this one slogan:

ATRAC OR DEATH!!!

BTW guys (and gals), I am also 42, and I swore my allegiance to MD back in 1998, and I still use it everyday, even in this day and age of multi-gig, multi-format DAP's.

I am Ray Jackson, and I approved this message.

[theblueraja]

I could name several bands easily that are 'album' acts... indeed, very important and lost by today's generation. And I'm not just talking old acts... and heck, I love techno and a lot of it is MIXED by a DJ... don't tell me THAT isn't important to keep the mix in the right order!!

[LeftyGorilla]

Okay, I'm in.

[jupitreas]

I dont understand how using digital portable media players such as iPods or whatever can contribute to the death of the 'album'.

You know, most of these devices come with media library systems that still list tracks by Artist and Album, right? I personally also like to listen to entire albums at a time and using an mp3 player doesn't stop me from doing that in ANY way.

A more significant difference in how music is distributed these days is that artwork does not influence the experience of listening to music as much as it used to. Since Im not dealing with a physical medium, I dont have easy access to artwork designed specifically to augment an album since at the moment, the most that an iPod or similar device can display is a small image of the front sleeve of the cover artwork.

At the same time, artists now can use websites, youtube videos and other media to establish a specific image for their music, which is something that was not possible to such an extent in the past.

Change is not necessarily a bad thing.

[baturjan]

I dont understand how using digital portable media players such as iPods or whatever can contribute to the death of the 'album'.

You know, most of these devices come with media library systems that still list tracks by Artist and Album, right? I personally also like to listen to entire albums at a time and using an mp3 player doesn't stop me from doing that in ANY way.

A more significant difference in how music is distributed these days is that artwork does not influence the experience of listening to music as much as it used to. Since Im not dealing with a physical medium, I dont have easy access to artwork designed specifically to augment an album since at the moment, the most that an iPod or similar device can display is a small image of the front sleeve of the cover artwork.

At the same time, artists now can use websites, youtube videos and other media to establish a specific image for their music, which is something that was not possible to such an extent in the past.

Change is not necessarily a bad thing.

When I previously said "art", I was thinking of the album of songs, not the artwork or album cover.

You are right that it's easy to listen to an entire album with an MP3 player, and the player itself doesn't necessitate otherwise. However, in light of the comments that "less is more", taking a few minidiscs (one or two albums per disc) lends itself to listening to the entire album, and hence appreciating the albums theme and progression of songs. I don't really care how people listen to music. I'm just saying that having an album with you versus a hundred albums is not the same for less obvious reasons.

[Strungup]

@ Jupitears

You may listen to Albums on your MP3 , but that makes you a rarity.

Watch the Keynote address from Apples website , and see where the dAP is aimed , the Songlist , Shuffle , Playlists,

This keynote , really brings out the Conformity factor , in a very subtle way , The "Genius" program in which your iTunes or iPod gets connected in an way to the rest of the worlds tastes and prefs ,

Your Playists get reprogramed , or preprogramed by "The Cloud " you select a song that your listening to , and hit the "Genius " button and based on that song a Random playlist of "Songs that will fit " are generated . as well as recommended SongS to buy .

Sales are being based on Songs now , and you can see it in a graphical representation by clicking on an Album at iTunes store , the songs of that CD will be displayed below , with a Popularity rating next to each one , the most popular being at the top of the list , What it tells you is WHICH SONG is being downloaded the most

The death of CD , LP ,TAPE , and the soul of the artist are WELL underway

Edited September 25, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[jupitreas]

Im definitely glad that Im boycotting both iTunes and the iPod then (and Apple in general, but that is a different story).

I use Winamp with its music library set up so that it lists artists and albums by year (displaying the album cover in the library).

I dont see how that is anything besides a far more convenient way of dealing with albums in a physical form.

Conclusion - Apple is killing the album experience!

[Strungup]

Im definitely glad that Im boycotting both iTunes and the iPod then (and Apple in general, but that is a different story).

I use Winamp with its music library set up so that it lists artists and albums by year (displaying the album cover in the library).

I dont see how that is anything besides a far more convenient way of dealing with albums in a physical form.

Conclusion - Apple is killing the album experience!

No APPLE isnt killing it , iTunes still does Album lists , and your music is stored by Album and or Artist .

Apple is just another medium , I am a Mac user , I used to be on XP and go all the way back to 3.1 , Loved Winamp ( wish they made it Mac compliant)

But put the Blame squarely where it lies , HomoSapiens need for instant Gratification ........ Whether it be Apple , Linux , Free BSD , Windoze,.... it would not matter .

The portion of people who actually take time to enjoy something , for what it is and not what they want it to be , are a severe Minority .

Slow Food society , how many members ? , Md forum how many members , Tapers , and Recordist's , how many left ?

compared to the population of the Earth . we are a Minority.

it isn't the Computers fault

[jupitreas]

You of course have a point in stating that a company like Apple is responding to a market dominated by people who seek 'instant gratification'. Nevertheless, it would also be wrong not to associate people's changing listening habits with how technology is developing. Both sides are to blame for the change, if we are to view it as a negative one (after all, art forms of all kinds have experienced significant changes in the past, from how mechanical reproduction decreased a painting's aura to how multiplexes and the DVD changed the face of cinema).

Anyway, since I still listen to albums on my computer, I agree with you that it is just another medium that can be used 'right' if one chooses to do so. What I was getting at is that according to what you described about that genius function in iTunes, Apple seems to be actively pushing people towards abandoning the album format in favor of mixing songs from different artists/albums. Winamp doesn't do that, or at least not without some plugins. This is why I concluded that Apple was doing something evil!

If the iTunes store is set up in such a way that favors downloading single songs instead of albums, the problem is that it forces artists to write songs in a way that prioritizes the appeal of a single song over experiencing a number of songs. This could potentially decrease willingness of bands to record un-orthodox songs and to experiment with their sound. In the past, they could simply include these songs on an album, together with songs that were more clearly written for instant gratification. People would be buying the whole album anyway and this way even those of us who just wanted to hear a particular song from an album would be exposed to more varied music. To me, this is the primary advantage of the album format but it also has nothing to do with what medium you use to listen to an album. You can still get the same experience from listening to the album using an mp3 player.

You also mentioned tape trading. How is trading tapes, which were usually compilations, different than the genius function in principle?

BTW: Winamp is the number one application that prevents me from abandoning Windows. The Adobe suite, which is what I use professionally, is after all also available on Macs and is fairly well emulated on Linux (still needs to be improved but they are getting there).

Edited September 26, 2008 by jupitreas

[Strungup]

I didnt mention Tapes in Cohesion with iTunes , I mentioned Tapes in Contrast of iTunes , that the Tapers are a Minority

In plain fact all of us Audiophiles are a Minority .

But I will say this is turning into a good conversation , "I wish you here" ...... so we could have a beer it would be fun to explore this in depth.

[jupitreas]

indeed, a good discussion is always welcome and a forum can only offer so much.

the whole issue is worth thinking about either way, whether we like it or not, we live in a time with a lot of change. i cant say i like ALL the changes that are occurring but at least it keeps things interesting!

[bobt]

I think that we are overlooking the best thing about minidisc, we all know the sound, the cool factor, the experience of actually doing something with your music, the involvement. I like the ability to trade music, more intimacy than random downloads, you get something that somebody has worked at. Can't do that with ipod or anything else, possibly with a card based system, but I digress. To me the best thing about minidisc is this little forum, we make friends all over the world, defend our toys, and even get to meet each other once in a while. You can't beat that with a stick,\MD 4ever,

Bob

[Strungup]

I think that we are overlooking the best thing about minidisc, we all know the sound, the cool factor, the experience of actually doing something with your music, the involvement. I like the ability to trade music, more intimacy than random downloads, you get something that somebody has worked at. Can't do that with ipod or anything else, possibly with a card based system, but I digress. To me the best thing about minidisc is this little forum, we make friends all over the world, defend our toys, and even get to meet each other once in a while. You can't beat that with a stick,\MD 4ever,

Bob

Amen

[ShriDurga]

Minidisc is DIFFERENT. It is rare now, and for the most part you can only get units now via Ebay... so the HUNT is part of the fun! Show it off to friends, see their reaction. You'll get the "why not iPod?" reaction, but you'll also first get the "wow, what's THAT?" reaction too.

This is for me perhaps the biggest reason to stay with MD, besides the fact that I'm comfortable with its look, feel and limitations. It's like the old bicycle or sweater that rides or wears so comfortably.

Then again maybe at 48 I'm turning into the proverbial old fart who becomes increasingly resistent - and sometimes oblivious - to change. I did try a Sony flash drive player earlier in the year and after a month sold it at auction, mainly because I was again stuck with SS, which is fine for MD but completely unnecessay for a flash drive.

Thanks for the post, BR.

[BIGHMW]

"MiniDisc is a useless gadget"? My A**!!!

Beat this collection!!! (taken from my original post on the Audio T-Board)

Well here it is fellow MiniDisc Heads, my entire arsenal:

Legacy (SP/MDLP/NetMD) Portable Units:

1 MZ-R50 (Silver) *

1 MZ-R70 (Gray) *

2 MZ-R70 (Silver) *

4 MZ-R700 (Silver) *

Hi-MD Portable Units:

3 MZ-NH700 (Silver) *

2 MZ-RH710 (Black) *

3 MZ-RH1 (Black)

Home Decks:

1 MXD-D3

1 MDS-JE520

1 MDS-JE480 *

Pro Decks:

MDS-E10

Car Decks:

2 MDX-C5970

2 MDX-65

Assorted Other Portable Analog or Digital Players:

1 WM-FX38 AM/FM Cassette Walkman (Black) *

1 WM-B47 Cassette Walkman (Black)

4 NW-HD5 MP3/ATRAC Network Walkman (Silver)

1 SRF-59 AM/FM Walkman (Silver) *

1 SRF-M97 AM/FM Walkman (Silver)

2 D-NE700 MP3/ATRAC CD Walkman (Silver)

Remotes/Accessories/SP or SL Series Phones/IEM's/Cases:

(WAY too many to count)

* - Decommissioned (Retired)

ATRAC OR DEATH!!!

Edited September 27, 2008 by BIGHMW

[theblueraja]

... we make friends all over the world, defend our toys...

well said!!

Thanks for the post, BR.

You are quite welcome

[darrencouch]

So many good points-kudos all!

I just want to share my small 2 cents, as I am also a recent convert to Minidisc (late 2007 to jump in is, well, a little late!).

My dad is a working jazz musician in Kansas, so i grew up around all sorts of live music, and an enormous jazz collection of records from the 50's and 60's of great music. I was never allowed to play with the Reel-To-Reel, but I still clearly remember the day he bought a Technics cassette deck. I would spend gleeful hours cueing up the records after cleaning them, running the loud sections to make sure the record level wasn't too high (especially if I wasn't using cro2 or metal tape) and making mixes of my favorite sections or albums to play in my walkman. It was an experience I truly enjoyed. After leaving the nest, I went on into computers and for years downloaded or burned music onto hard drive upon hard drive. At different parts of my life I've had all the music I've ever wanted or cared for in digits. It gave me a blase' attitude about something I used to have a cherished memory of. It truly bcame a disposable thing to me--McMusic, if you will.

Cue 2007, and my dad sent me his old panasonic solid-state receiver (back when EVERYTHING was made of steel and wood ) and a decent turntable. I began to remember what it was about albums and recorded music that I loved so much. I tried looking for a good cassette deck, but if you think good Minidisc players are rare... That's when I came across some small mention of minidisc on an album forum I was reading at the time. It was exactly what I was looking for-an elegant sloution to creating portable copies of the record collection I have been amassing. That also sounds great. Oh, and is durn cool looking. And waay more portable. Y'all know what Im talkin aboot. I found an MDS-JE780 on my local cragslist with 120+ minidiscs to go with, and I've been happily recording ever since. No need for fancy sound cards, or optical outs (although I'm sure I'll be heading that way soon too), or music mastering software. that and I am no longer a pirate on the high bittorrent seas. I'm supporting bands I like by buying vinyl, hunting down rares and spending an afternoon mastering them to minidisc to play in my portables. Eh, it's a hobby!

Someone mentioned in a post earlier about curmudgeoniness, and I suppose there's a bit of that going on, but I'm regulating my computer where I think it belongs-mostly away from my music collection (I have to admit I am a bit of a Magnatune junkie, but thats what the NetMD interface is for).

[Strungup]

Cruzer , .... Welcome to the Fray !

oh I have a Sony TCD -5M Cassette deck

And a BUNCH of Vinyl .

[Sparky191]

Its a daft list, make no sense for so many reasons.

Minidisc isn't that useful for most people though. Its very useful for specific applications, especially live recording. Most people don't do that though.

[bilb]

Hey, I've been reading this thread for the past half hour or so and I can only come up with one thing to say: HELL YEAH ! I agree with all who say that the Minidisc Player/Recorder is cool, extremely portable, has excellent sound quality and is relatively easy to use. I give kudos to those of us who maintain their strong ties with their mechanical music machines and not getting rid of them in favor of Ipod's and the like. I have always been one to stick with what works (Cassette, Laser Disc, LP's and of course, Minidisc) and what sounds great. I still purchase record albums after all these years not just to use on my turntable, but to record that nice warm sound(pops and clicks included) to Minidisc to take along wherever I go.

I will always continue to utilize my Minidisc Player/Recorder until I run out of machines to use and can't find them anymore or they pry my cold dead fingers from around them and will also belong to this forum as a Premiere User until it is shut down because I still look to all of you for your help and expertise.

Long Live Minidisc and the MDCF ! !

[bluecrab]

I think that we are overlooking the best thing about minidisc, we all know the sound, the cool factor, the experience of actually doing something with your music, the involvement. I like the ability to trade music, more intimacy than random downloads, you get something that somebody has worked at. Can't do that with ipod or anything else, possibly with a card based system, but I digress. To me the best thing about minidisc is this little forum, we make friends all over the world, defend our toys, and even get to meet each other once in a while. You can't beat that with a stick,\MD 4ever,

Bob

This really does feel like a community of sorts. I have always liked that about MDCF. Well said, Bob!