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HiMD most definitely did not get rid of 24-bit. My point is that 292->256 keeps the 24-bitness, whereas 292->1411 gets rid of it.

No worries, this one is "done-and-dustified" with the complete CMT-M33NT setup in our downloads section.

It has come slowly to our consciousness here (speaking for myself - others can argue the point if desired) that one of the big pluses of the MD format is its 24-bitness. I myself was hung up on the ability to get 16-bit "pure" CD sound by uploading with the amazing MZ-RH1, or before that using TOSlink optical. But, just as you say, the internals of the ATRAC format have been (since well before I got into the format some 10 years ago) 24-bit floating point. This raises an interesting question when uploading from "standard" MD's, as there is a choice in Sonic Stage of generating 256kbps HiSP format (Atrac3+) or 1411kbps CD format (like WAV). Interestingly (?) the 1411 PCM format stored in the .oma container is NOT ATRAC- like in any way, shape, or form. Strip the ea3 header (like ID3) off it and it's just a wav file, 16-bits. Sound Forge refuses to work with LPCM .oma files - you have to turn them into standard WAV files first. (presumably because this format violates the rule ".oma means ATRAC"). I had always (at first) gone straight to WAV because: a. I had an editor that could manipulate that format b. I believed that somehow, magically, LPCM was better than Hi-SP. But now with Sound Forge there's an editor that will work with ATRAC (Sound Forge 9 and later), provided the files have been decrypted with the File Conversion Tool supplied by Sony. So I am currently experimenting with uploading from 292kbps to HiSP (256kbps A3+) instead. The other part which may be interesting to you is that when transferring LP2 and LP4 formats to the PC (using USB), they are bit-for-bit copied with no conversion whatever, at least by default, it's an option in Sonic Stage. So a well-compressed ("well" as in "it worked nicely and the result sounds good") MDLP recording can be and should be kept as is, unless you want to make CD's from it, which is kind of a waste of space. I think Sound Forge keeps things internally as 24-bit when editing ATRAC files, too. Just by way of completeness the Atrac3+ formats on HiMD are (or at least, can be) all transferred without conversion. But you quit MD before they got invented HiMD, so I didn't add anything on that. Your post (and my experience) does, however, explain the observation of the "magic" of MD where a 292kbps signal can recreate what's on a CD. It's not surprising that there's enough information in the 24-bit format (after Sony's throwing away the inaudible stuff) to generate a quite realistic CD. It also leads to understanding of the "warmth" of the MD sound - especially when recording from analogue sources. I'm not sure that this is true for TOSlink, but your experiment may show that it happens with digital input too. The only missing piece for me, is that I do not own one of the decks which directly outputs 20 (or 24) bits to TOSlink (or coax) for playback into a modern 24-bit capable receiver. These are relatively few, although the MDS-JB940 in fact is fairly readily available. The subsequent JB980 actually removed this feature, as I found out too late, after purchasing one.*** It intrigues me that you mention that 320kbps MP3 is actually 32-bit floating point. I know that Sound Forge 9 sees my 256kbps mp3 files as 16-bit. Stephen *** Now - if you, or someone else could tell me how to modify the JB980 to have 24-bit optical output that might be an interesting project indeed!!!!

Interesting. The NWZ-A1000/1200/3000 which are all known as ATRAC Audio Devices all allow the transfer back from the device to the PC. In Sonic Stage. (This is distinct from the NetMD case where "check in" simply consists of deleting the file - the only thing which gets transferred back to the PC in that case is the "authorization" i.e. encryption key(s) and this allows updating the transfer count for that one file just checked in). Similarly you can transfer files OFF a HiMD disk that were placed there by another PC, but only if they were non encrypted, or decrypted by the File Conversion Tool. However I have a feeling that this will never apply to Connect Store items. Since I never had any then it is hard to test. Why? Because they use differently-coded key blocks from the rest of the files stored on portables and PCs. I'm not even sure if the A1200 (for example) and other Atrac AD's even accept Connect tracks. If the layout is the same on the earlier HD3/5 then it should be easy enough to copy the files (look for .oma on the disk?) back using normal USB access. The problem is (or may be) decrypting them. If all OP's tracks came from Connect, I'm not optimistic. However if they did NOT all come from Connect, the chances are that you can eventually get the non-Connect ones back, if you can persuade FCT or perhaps the modified VLC/ffmpeg with ATRAC support to decode them. To be fair to Sony, they did tell everyone that the Connect Store was going down, and to allow conversion from protected tracks to ones that can be transferred, if I recall correctly. If the tracks were still on the PC then FCT would do it - but I have a feeling that the ones on a device are beyond recovery.

... it is over a month old

I'd be mildly surprised if this was NOT one of the things that the Linux Minidisc project can handle (at least in principle). However I am not sure where they are on the ability to write discs..... For HiMD it should be exactly just a question of writing the correct format to the USB mass storage device (and a couple of overhead things required by the disc setup such as encryption!). For NWZ-A1200 it should be no problem. I will try ASAP.

You're right (of course - why would I doubt someone with your experience?). I just tried both, and it seems that ATRAC3+ 128kbps simply doesn't want to live on an MD. The closest comparison then, would be to use the A1000/1200/3000 which should accept all rates and compare the playback of the ATRAC file. Mind you, playing back from the computer should be just fine, too. PS I recall Avrin poking around with bitrates in SonicStage - maybe there's something along those lines that can be done. Probably the HiMD disk will play them, but SonicStage doesnt transfer them.

There are two ways to get 128kbps Atrac3+, at least, that I know: 1. via setting the CD importing format in Sonicstage to be ATRAC - 128kbps 2. using Sound Forge 9 and Save As... HTH

Looking at the manual for the NWZ-S54x series, the firmware can only be written when the cover of the device is removed. At a guess I would say perhaps the service manual writing of the values you want (Sound Pressure SP) can only be done when the top is removed.

Sorry, but I think the problem is with the way you asked the question. It's not true to say that a "range of frequencies are being manipulated". As long as you stick to SP (no choice with an R70), you should equal or beat the quality on a standard CD. The more likely problems are: 1. What microphone you use (many will cut out at 30, 40, 50 Hz), and whether the fancy mics will work in the microphone socket of the MZ-R70. You may need a device called a battery box to transform the signal from the fancy microphones to line in voltage levels, instead of the microphone input, due to the signal levels involved. 2. How you plan to get the results digitally if you need to do scientific analysis. Just about the only reasonable way to get the recorded sounds from an SP minidisc is to buy or rent an MZ-RH1 and upload the SP minidisc to a WAV (16 bits, Fs=44100) file. Anything else you are likely (but not guaranteed) to lose the upper and lower ends just by transferring it (you can test this if your equipment is good enough, on a scope or whatever) on an analogue cable. All in all, you're the scientist, and will have to establish your own means and methodology. The one thing you do NOT have to worry about is the compression - ATRAC does a very good job on that score. What it lacks in overall bits it makes up in bit depth. ATRAC is a 24-bit format with a logarithmic exponent (floating point) whereas Linear PCM is a 16-bit fixed point format. So for very loud and very quiet sounds, ATRAC will probably work better than one of the devices that merely records 16-bit "LPCM". Hope this helps.

21st May??? Actually there are some people selling silver RH1 in Japan in the $450-$700 range, and one current US Ebay listing for $800.

IIRC (Jim, where are you) the first disk should be blank 80m. The second should be HiMD formatted 80m, and filled with music (256kbps, Hi-SP seems to work ok). The third is a 1GB disk completely filled with music. I don't think it matters much.

Maybe it somehow takes over the output of sound play. There's a thing called Microsoft Wave Mapper - you may want to set your default play to something other than that ( I seem to recall that SS doesn't let you select your output device!), and configure ULEAD to play directly to the device that the Wave Mapper is playing to when you installed ULEAD. This might enable you to enjoy both.

Having listened to your sample and the sound you hear, I don't think it (that noise) has anything to do with the track. Sonic Stage and Windows are conspiring NOT to play your track properly, that's all. We shall see if any of my weird suggestions (sent by PM) work, and you can tell us (here) which, if any, do.

Would you like to arrange to send me a file so that I can see what is happening? If they are extension .oma, then you will have to decrypt them first. This means running the Sonic Stage "File Conversion Tool" If the file you send (pick one that's not too big) plays ok here, then it's your SS setup that's gone sideways. Stephen

High speed? Perhaps you'd like to explain a bit.....

They're actually not that special. You can make them as long as you have a functioning unit that is properly aligned. It's probably a mistake to use your NH600D to create them, however. Jim Hoggarth seems to say he has the process down pat.... Stephen

After a 911 reset you are supposed to do the (automated) Servo Overall Adjustment. If you got lucky and put someone else's values in, you may be overdriving the optical block to a premature demise. Recommend you learn how to do it. You need a. 1 Regular MD 2. Regular MD full of HiMD music 3. 1GB disk full of music. 4. The service manual for the NH900. Good luck! PS many folks actually would take the analogue amp over the "HD digital" version.

Another thing is that if you can get your files in whatever form onto the PC, the amazing Sound Forge 9 supports all the ATRAC formats as a matter of course, and you can do it all digitally. Even the LP2 files (which, it so happens, are uploaded bit perfect via the RH1) can be edited without direct conversion. But I see you don't want to get into computers - just letting you know it's there.

from what I can tell, HD5 is an "Atrac Audio Device" and the files are not encrypted. But they didn't call it that in the product manual, along with its little bro the HD3. Worst case... copy all the files off and reformat. Better make sure you CAN play each one with WMP just to be sure.

The best way to restore settings esp. on HiMD is to do an automated alignment (they call it Servo Overall adjustment). However you may need some special disks. Stick around here and Jim and I will help. I am not going to be particularly useful for a few days, but if you've not got it sorted in a week or so, we can dig into it.

Faults with the jog dial are usually associated with increased contact resistance. Ah - some 600D's doesn't have a remote as an option (mine does however) - in which case you cannot double check by plugging in the remote and testing the same things. If the remote works to do the same things, then the problem is simple and electrical with the jog dial. Jim Hoggarth here on the board can give you the best advice about that and how to clean.

Can you see your music (albeit in some funny directory structure)? "just" look with windows explorer at the disk drive (assuming one shows up as it does on the NWZ-A1200) and search for everything called .oma or .OMA You may be surprised - these files may even play in Windows Media Player (if you let them!).

Sorry, mental lapse on my part, I had seen this before. They are an alias for some other entries (yeah 113 is 1941). But nothing in the manual. My values (for 600D): 08, 00, 00 I note that no one refers to the 600D in the thread linked-to. The 600 and 600D are, of course in fact different machines.

What???? There's no such thing in the service manuals for the 600,600D,700, or 900. If you managed to navigate to anything beyond 920 your firmware is truly blown, most likely. In my (not humble) opinion. Perhaps you wrote down the wrong numbers. What values were you trying to change? Stephen