Do you like SonicStage - at all?

[dex Otaku]

I'm just curious as to what this could generate.

[Davew]

Sorry, but I really can't stand SonicStage.

It's slow, it's bloated, it thinks it knows better what to do with my music than I do, it loses and deletes things, it doesn't listen to me when I shout at it...

I could go on for ever but i'll spare you all :laugh:

oh yes, another thing, you can't control it using the meida keyboard buttons (like you can with media player and real)

So what I tend to do is use Media Player to play my OMGs on my PC, I try to use SS as little as possible, only for transferring files. I also don't like using SS as my music library, it is very limited and I really don't like how it is layed out and how you have to manage it!

It Sucks. Lets have something else, *anything* else, Sony or somebody, anybody? Please?

Dave

[aeriyn]

SonicStage blows donkey balls.

I absolutely refuse to use it now. My MD/portable audio is totally separate from my PC at the moment, other than my downloading of MP3s which I subsequently burn to CD, pop in my Sony CD deck and make MDs in the old-fashioned, real-time SP method.

I've found that speed of recording discs doesn't count when that recording isn't occupying your PC. I can be playing FFXI or chatting or downloading or my computer can even be turned off, and I can still record MDs. So the waiting an hour for an hour of music thing isn't a big deal.

I can't wait till my JE330 gets here. :laugh: Titling tracks with this confused N505 sucks.

[Hyena]

I personally have not ran into any problems with it so far.

I mean, it is bloated and rather slow. I really wish they'd come out with a smaller program that just transfers music to your MD unit, instead of doing all this "library" management, which I don't even use. As soon as a song is transferred to my 505, I delete the SS files in my library so it stays empty.

Otherwise I haven't grown angry at it. I used OpenMG jukebox for quite some time, so IMO SonicStage (2.whatever) is a HUGE improvement and a blessing. (Even since most of my use of OpenMG JB was just for TITLING tracks. It was a common occurance with me for OpenMG to crash just for the hell of it. Same with SS 1.5)

[KJ_Palmer]

I'm just titling Hi-MD tracks with it (or MD Simpleburner 2) now, and rely on real time/decks for all my recording duties. I've never had any joy with any audio software, so I just steer clear of all of it now. Not sure if SonicStage is particularly bad as far as software goes, but it certainly is bad (in my experience)...

[skyther]

Crap, crap, crap. Sony call this software? Pass me iTunes and an iPod.

Amen!

[doclloyd]

I find it to be useful enough. Most of my annoyances with it can be found in the thread about how we would make SS more useful. For the most part, it gets the job done to transfer tracks over to my MD portable. A friend of mine saw how it works. He said he likes how it organizes things into "albums" by default vs. iTunes. Maybe he uses it (iTunes) differently than most. I think there's still a lot to be done in terms of the interface, but I understand how to use it for the time being.

[dex Otaku]

I've been using audio software on the PC since, well, the dawn of audio software on the PC [back with Windows 3.0, which had no sound built in]. My second sound card was a Pro Audiospectrum 16 [since it was the first largely available consumer 16-bit audio card] and I started editing with pre-1.0 versions of Sound Forge which I informally beta tested.

I was using Winamp in the pre-1.0 days. I was experimenting with mp3 encoders/decoders before PCs could even decode in realtime - 24 hours to encode a song on a 486/33.

I've seen player software go from simple single-song players to playlist-based to library-based.

I think I'm qualified enough to speak LOUD and clear when I say that SonicStage has some of the worst implementations of management features ever seen in a piece of audio software. Ever. Even the severely-crippled library system in Winamp3 was light-years ahead of SS in terms of usability.

SonicStage gives a very deep impression of being something designed by people who have never used a computer to manage or listen to music before.

I have actually had very few problems in terms of reliability, i.e. crashing. I haven't had any issues with installing or with things in the library getting lost, or bad encodes/transcodes. The one serious bug I've found is the upload-trashing feature, which is absolutely critical and requires Sony's attention.

Unfortunately, Sony have no mechanism for submitting bug reports. There is no way to submit feature-requests, either. They have the rather typified attitude of a company who have no experience in the computer world [or at least, a division that does], and don't understand that customer feedback should be an integral part of the development process. You don't just write some software and then expect millions of people to buy it [think for second of the range of products they sell that depend completely on SS to work] and use it without paying any heed at all to what might be wrong with it, what the users' experiences are, or how to improve it.

I have already submitted bug reports by the only mechanism available: going to sony.com using their web form meant for tech support, hoping that putting a message in that reads "Please forward this to your SonicStage software engineers" will actually be heeded by someone.

Sony have a lot to learn about paying attention to their customers. Recent posts here that reflect how poor the user experience is with HiMD, from misleading advertising and sales or support people who are totally uninformed, to the POS that SonicStage is and the crippling restrictions their ridiculous DRM impose on what is actually the recordist's property, not Sony's or some record company's...

Ye-ah.

[Michael_Walker]

AMEN to that, dex... i for one will NEVER buy another piece of sony hardware as long as i live.

SONY NEEDS TO GET WITH THE PROGRAM - its the friggin 21st century, and the name of the game is now "CUSTOMER SERVICE"

[ihavecomputer]

sonicstage makes "easy cd creater 1.0 - trial version" look like a deep, intuitive, smooth running app.

[Syrius]

You don't just write some software and then expect millions of people to buy it [think for second of the range of products they sell that depend completely on SS to work] and use it without paying any heed at all to what might be wrong with it, what the users' experiences are, or how to improve it.

Ever heard of Windows 98? :rasp:

[KJ_Palmer]

Update: I've been using SS2 and MD Simpleburner over the xmas holidays to populate my Hi-MD format disks from my CD collection. I actually thought it was rather good. I was glad that the CD-text was copied over, or Gracenote CDDB worked well when called for from original disks. The only minus point was the time it took to convert to ATRAC. But it got there in the end without crashing or any ill effects, so I'm happy enough with it's performance - it did what it said on the box...

[yamagatacamille]

i'm only familiar to SS1.5, and it's was pure garbage; it forever screwed up my computer. i'm never going back to netMD because of it. i cant say the same for the recent version of SS right now, cuz i dont have a proper USB cable for my NF610, but i just cant depend on SS anymore. i guess i'm just ignorant about it.

[Christopher]

Sonicstage 2.3 is pretty good. It's not anything I'm ranting and raving about, but there's certainly alot of potential there. It's hard to say something constructive about a turd, you know..

Just kidding, but seriously, I haven't had a crash yet and the transfer times are very agreeable. So it's alright in my book.

[daremo]

2.3 is ok. I use it to store all my CDs on the computer in ATRAC3plus mode. Makes transfering to HiSP really easy and fast. Also makes it easy to go through my library and choose what music to stick on the disc. My only problem with it is when I put a CD in to upload from I cant change windows or do anything until the transfer is underway or openmjbox.exe crashes... If you use it just as an uploader for your downloads I can see how it would be sorta messy. Just stick with the Realplayer utility.

[streaml1ne]

2.3 is definitely quicker than 2.1 was. I'd guess it's more stable, in that I've had 2.1 crash on me once and 2.3 never. I have not had tracks trashed on upload (yet). If I want music management I use an age old technique, directories . I store all my CD's on a file server in Monkeys Audio and decompress/import/transfer the wavs with SS whenever I need to. I remove them immediately and delete the OMGs after transferring. I don't see a point to SS for 'managing' music. What more do you need to manage?

[atrain]

^ i do a similar thing with my music. i don't like jukebox s/w let alone something as transient as sony's.

that said i quite like the transfer functions & the usability is getting better all the time

[mgdimo]

SonicStage is UNFORGIVING!! I'm glad I saw this thread because I was about to start a 'SonicStage bashing' topic somewhere. I'll just add my rants here...

OK, I admit I may have made mistakes leading to the disappearance of three tracks that werw precious to me, but dammit, I wish SS were a little more user friendly. I'm no computer geek, so you tell me if I should just be pissed at myself and spare sony my rage.

My NH900 came with SS 2.0 and I only uploaded a few tracks I'd recorded with my mics of my kids around the house and such. From much of what I'd been reading here at MDCF, I wanted to update to 2.3 before I got into any real important transfers. But these test tracks of my kids really grew on me. You know, cute little voices and so on. I have three yr old twin girls and a one yr old boy. Anyway...

Going through the process of installation of 2.3 I saw I had to "uninstall" my old version. To me that meant trash, delete, ya know, adios bye bye. So I loaded my three precious test tracks back onto MD. See where I'm going with this? Installation of SS 2.3 successful. How else would I get my tracks back on the computer? Here's where my lack of tech knowledge may have been my demise.

1. Maybe SS transfers old tracks to new version of software? I dunno.

2. In my haste/excitement I actually forgot about the 2nd transfer rule with SS.

I went to load my tracks (back) to SS 2.3 and **poof**... gone. Gone from the computer and gone from the MD.

So here's my gripe: Does Sonic Stage have to be so unforgiving and trash MY original recordings which only I have the rights to? iTunes wouldn't do that.

Is SONY aware of all the minidisc user communities around the world like this one? Where the actual people who actually purchase and use their products discuss what they like and don't like...want more of or less of? Do they (sony) give us, the consumers, any credit? Or is it just about the $$$$$$

This anti piracy thing has gotten out of hand when my own recordings, of which I'M the damn composer, start disappearing because people are trying to protect the record companies and their billions.

Am I off base here?

P.S. Thanks for letting me vent.

[Christopher]

Lesson learned; when you upload once, save it to hard drive.

[Damage]

No Vote. I'd have to vote somewhere between functional to bee's knees (bees have knees?).

Using WMP10 to create Smart Playlists then using SS to import makes MP3 management somewhat workable, though there isn't any integration between it and MD devices yet. I'd suspect sooner or later, it'll come to pass.

Still, it's functional enough.

[mgdimo]

Lesson learned; when you upload once, save it to hard drive.

←

So, running XP Pro that would be like saving it to a "my music" folder? Anybody use any other crafty methods of preserving recorded material?

[NtN]

So, running XP Pro that would be like saving it to a "my music" folder? Anybody use any other crafty methods of preserving recorded material?

←

There was an article on minidisc.org (i think) that the stupid makers of sonicstage were going to get help from a proper software company in order to improve it because they are finally realising how much it sucks.

It can perform it's function.. just not easily.

Things that need to change are: 1. Library Management - i mean who the hell uses this... it wastes so much of our time.

2. Mp3 file support - yes it supports mp3s... but not VBR and mp3s which have not bee made to fit sonicstage's requirements... there is no point to this.. all it does is make me have to convert all to WAV and then rename every song... bloody annoyance.

3. Bulkyness... it takes way too long to load... there is just simply way too much going on.. most of it we don't even need OR WANT!

4. A new name (lol)... please i just hope they do come up with a new name for the program because the thought about using sonicstage makes me feel a bit queasy... ugh.. just saying it makes me feel a bit weird.

Once the program is fixed and other uploading facilities are 'fine-tuned' made better etc. Then Hi-MD/NetMD will be amazing... but with so many drawbacks for the format as there currently are... without a revamp of it's software etc. it will still always kinda suck.

[ROMBUSTERS]

i've personally never had it crash on me, and it works so its all good i guess

[dex Otaku]

As much as I whinge and gripe about SS constantly, it has very rarely crashed on me while in use.

The one exception to this is that the OpenMG module crashes when I close SS - not every time.. get this: only if I've played audio. If I open SS to look through the menus to write a tech support post here, and then close it without playing anything, it doesn't crash.

My complaints with SS are mostly because of all the requests for support we get here.

In my own experience:

* It worked right from the original installation of 2.1

* I have upgraded from 2.1 to 2.2 to 2.3 with no mishaps

* I have never had to reinstall

* I have never experienced the well-known issue with VBR mp3s [though I have found that mp3s created by certain encoders, such as bladenc, transcode as silence]

* Pre-2.3, it trashed a number of my uploads, this being the most critical bug IMO [2.3 has yet to do this to me]

We get so many users coming here saying they have problems with it crashing in various ways, or not doing certain things right.. it's really quite ridiculous. In Sony's defense [yes, I'm actually saying that] it's difficult in the extreme to test every possible configuration, but really - the frequency of these problems and the underlying issues [such as missing or corrupted windows components] are what I would put in the "biggies" category.

These are problems/bugs that once a pool of users have made them apparent, a patch or fix instructions should be readily available to the public, not to mention EASILY FOUND. Navigating Sony's multiple websites in search of downloads or support is like entering voicemail hell, only about 6 orders of magnitude greater in impossibility and frustration.

Sony has absolutely no customer feedback system other than phoning their tech support and complaining to people who don't have even the slightest idea what you're talking about.

They have no bug-reporting system. They have no system of disclosing what issues have been addressed with each updated version. They have no support online other than the most basic of FAQs that don't even address the issues that we here hear about most frequently.

I have not actually found SS to be unreliable in an overall sense.

Rather - what I have found is that a few crucial [in the business world, "mission critical"] functions contain bugs that make the software [in my eyes] completely untrustworthy.

The rest of my complaints about SS have to do with the fact that its interface is both unintuitive and unwieldy. As far as basic function goes, it is usable, and there are ways in which I think it actually does shine - its CD ripping functions work flawlessly [for me] and are relatively sensible in their layout et al.

The main library system is a mess, though. The lack of a "remove dead files" function shows that the Sony engineers simply aren't thinking about things very clearly. Do they honestly expect you to keep both the mp3 and atrac copies of every single file you transcode? They make it impossible to delete the references to the mp3s without doing so a single file at a time. In the meantime, the missing mp3 means the library won't let you edit any of the tags on your atrac files.

Their compilation/playlist system is also utterly dismal. It does work, but it is far too complicated for the average person. [it should also include the ability to use folders within playlists so they can be written to netMD or HiMD with folders.]

This is not to mention that, despite the fact that Sony seem to think that every customer who buys a network walkman, netMD, HiMD, or whatever, will simply switch to using SS as their main audio library/player.

And yet, it lacks even the most basic EQ [which, with my logitech z680 speaker system, is an absolute requirement for decent-sounding playback]. It also lack the bells and whistles that many people like about iTunes, Winamp and the like - visualisation plugins, audio effects, the ability to play more audio formats, &c.

I'm tired of this.

[mrsoul]

I hear ya Dex! Let'em have it! If I didn't have to use SS, I never would. Plain and simple. When I talk to folks about the joys of MD, I always give the caveat about the awful clumsy SS. I would rather Sony focus on SS than put out new models or offer mp3 playback. Just adding my .02 to Dex's post (man, you really let'em have it and I agree wholeheartedly).

[Christopher]

Sonicstage doesn't really irk me. The only thing that really bothers me these days is the transfer time - sometimes I need my music on the disc steadfast. I wonder if we can manipulate settings in the registry or something to that effect to increase burst/forward writing - like when you use Simple Burner 2 and it writes/converts two tracks at once. I know there are limitations to USB 1.1, but are we absolutely sure that it's at the maximum write speed the whole time?

[El Eddie]

My complaints with SS are mostly because of all the requests for support we get here....

We get so many users coming here saying they have problems with it crashing in various ways, or not doing certain things right..  it's really quite ridiculous.  In Sony's defense [yes, I'm actually saying that] it's difficult in the extreme to test every possible configuration, but really - the frequency of these problems and the underlying issues [such as missing or corrupted windows components] are what I would put in the "biggies" category. 

These are problems/bugs that once a pool of users have made them apparent, a patch or fix instructions should be readily available to the public, not to mention EASILY FOUND.  Navigating Sony's multiple websites in search of downloads or support is like entering voicemail hell, only about 6 orders of magnitude greater in impossibility and frustration.

Sony has absolutely no customer feedback system other than phoning their tech support and complaining to people who don't have even the slightest idea what you're talking about.

They have no bug-reporting system.  They have no system of disclosing what issues have been addressed with each updated version.  They have no support online other than the most basic of FAQs that don't even address the issues that we here hear about most frequently.

I have not actually found SS to be unreliable in an overall sense. 

Rather - what I have found is that a few crucial [in the business world, "mission critical"] functions contain bugs that make the software [in my eyes] completely untrustworthy. 

The rest of my complaints about SS have to do with the fact that its interface is both unintuitive and unwieldy.  As far as basic function goes, it is usable, and there are ways in which I think it actually does shine - its CD ripping functions work flawlessly [for me] and are relatively sensible in their layout et al.

The main library system is a mess, though.  The lack of a "remove dead files" function shows that the Sony engineers simply aren't thinking about things very clearly.  Do they honestly expect you to keep both the mp3 and atrac copies of every single file you transcode?  They make it impossible to delete the references to the mp3s without doing so a single file at a time.  In the meantime, the missing mp3 means the library won't let you edit any of the tags on your atrac files.

Their compilation/playlist system is also utterly dismal.  It does work, but it is far too complicated for the average person.  [it should also include the ability to use folders within playlists so they can be written to netMD or HiMD with folders.]

This is not to mention that, despite the fact that Sony seem to think that every customer who buys a network walkman, netMD, HiMD, or whatever, will simply switch to using SS as their main audio library/player. 

And yet, it lacks even the most basic EQ [which, with my logitech z680 speaker system, is an absolute requirement for decent-sounding playback].  It also lack the bells and whistles that many people like about iTunes, Winamp and the like - visualisation plugins, audio effects, the ability to play more audio formats, &c.

I'm tired of this.

←

Hi Guys!

Couldnt we sign this and send it to Sony with all of our names on it? And please include the madness of deleting files on second upload , that IS a crime.

Serious, we should send some like this to Sony , I think it would be looked at.

[leviathan]

The only thing SonicStage is good for is titling tracks. I'm serious. Until Sony does away with its draconian DRM, you're better off recording in real time.

Edited February 9, 2005 by leviathan

[dex Otaku]

Couldnt we sign this and send it to Sony with all of our names on it? And please include the madness of deleting files on second upload , that IS a crime.

Serious, we should send some like this to Sony , I think it would be looked at.

←

Sony have read this. They have also received pleas by email from many of us, including myself, offering bug reports, harsh criticism, and [in my case] most recently an open plea for co-operation with the members of this board, at the very least to improve their tech support.

After all - WE ARE DOING THEIR JOBS FOR THEM, AND WE'RE DOING IT FOR FREE.

Sorry for shouting.

[Christopher]

So I imagine you haven't recieved a response, eh?

[dex Otaku]

Nay.

[bug80]

You know what would be great? An OpenMG plugin for iTunes, just like there used to be for Realplayer. That would be best of both worlds. You'll be able to manage your music in an intuitive way using iTunes and transfer them to MD if you'd like.

Furthermore, it would be a good move from Sony to release a proper (stand-alone) ATRAC encoder where you can adjust settings. For example: fast/lower quality encoding versus slow/higher quality encoding. ATRAC is bashed in audio comminities for its quality, and I don't think that would be necessary if only the software encoders were better.

Of course the best scenario would be Sony making the ATRAC algorithm open source, but I guess that would never happen

[Michael1980]

IMO the best way to work with SS is to have a completely empty library in it, and then drag and drop the files you want to transfer to minidisc. I make the playlist in iTunes and then drag it to SS and delete (om* files) after transferring.

[Mikami]

I think SS is, good.

I am very happy that Sony keeps on imporving SS and that they are listening to their customers. SS has never crashed on me and has done everything I wanted it to do. Also, Sony's cool WAV convter was clearly a big compromise and it makes a good team in combination with SS and the simple burner. Sony is in between a rock and a hard place, at times. They are trying to blanace the sensiblities of their customers, recording artists, and their recording label. The changes that have been made with SS took a lot of courage on the part of The Sony Corporation and praise should given where praise is due. Also, the changes that might be made to Ss in the future might be very cool.

[SlowMo]

well,

i used to be V E R Y pissed off about SS, for its well known issues..

...but right now, i´ve chosen to take SS as a "neccessary evil", or to be a smartass: "if you can´t beat your enemy, make it your friend". (-oh, ..no.. -well, that would be too much, though... )

the point is, i can´t avoid it, so i stop bothering about, because i can't change anything about it anyway. if i didn´t, i would only piss off others constantly, and get eaten up from inside.

so i use it to transfer my audios, delete the omg's, give it the finger, and that´s it.

wishlist:

instead of this stupid media library, there should be a browser window, to explore your harddisk's folders, and the chosen compression settings should be clearly visible, and more easily changeble.

and why do i have to import files, before transerring them, that sucks.

quit the shiny looks, and add some real and quick accessible functionality, it´s needed !

[8track]

I use Minidisc because of it's audio quality.To put it plainly: MP3 sucks. MDLP is better but still dosen't cut it.The problem I have with SS is it's inability to record in ATRAC (SP) mode.It codes in ATRAC3(LP2) then back to SP.MDs burned through SS are not utilizing the MD format to its full potential.Hi-MD seems to have solved this problem with PCM and Hi-SP,but there is still no way of getting a good quality SP recording....yet.It's surprising the net-MD/Sonic Stage combination didn't kill the MD format here in the US with it's poor sound quality....Who cares if you can get 5 hrs of audio on one disc,if it sounds too bad to listen to?...8/

Edited February 21, 2005 by 8track

[Christopher]

It's surprising the net-MD/Sonic Stage combination didn't kill the MD format here in the US with it's poor sound quality....

←

It didn't?

Welcome to the forums, btw.

[Michael1980]

The only thing NetMD is really good for is titling and creating groups lol.

Having said that, I still create LP2's from my CD's collection just because I am too lazy to do it realtime through optical-in.

[Rumz]

I have no major qualms with Sonic Stage. Ultimately I like it better than iTunes for the way in which it allows me to control what's on my hdd player. However it does need some work like playlist support (and I'd like the tracks on the player to mirror any changes made to tracks in Sonic Stage's library).

[Daijoubu]

iTune is *light*?

I think I'm crapping in my pants

fb2k and winamp ARE light