Minidisc users are moaners

[excubitor]

I've had my MZ-NH700 for about a month now. It only cost me $150 Aus dollars (which is cheap) included in the package was a battery recharger (value $60), a little carrying case, and 5 blank minidiscs.

I nearly didnt buy it because of all the moaning by users on this and other forums about Sonicstage software and difficulties uploading and downloading to computer. In the end I persisted with the purchase because I needed an excellent recorder. I figured I would buy an mp3 player for playback. However the minidisc has exceeded all my expectations and has shown off minidisc users as a bunch of gripers and moaners. Sonicstage has worked flawlessly. I find it much better than Real player and media player. Its very intuitive.

You lot should feel grateful you don't have to battle with iTunes. http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-music/a...9337267409.html.

Atrac3Plus is absolutely amazing. The quality of sound at 64kbps is fantastic. The file size of a typical song is about 1.7M which is half the size of an equivalent mp3. The moaners on this site tried to say that Sony was being misleading in saying that 47 hours of music could fit on a 1 gig disk and that the quality would be virtually unlistenable. Boy have they proved to be wrong.

I have concluded that most of these moaners are people who want to rip off music from the Internet and play it through their sound system. In other words they are using Atrac3, minidisc and Sonicstage for something which it is not designed to do. Use it properly and fairly and it is a marvellous device.

Thumbs up Sony for providing us with a great technology and thumbs down minidisc users for the many hateful words I have read directed at Sony (not always on this forum)

[WaywardTraveller]

First off, welcome to the world of minidisc.

While I wouldn't characterize all of the complaints about SS as "griping and moaning," I would agree that some of the criticisms of the software are less relevant than others. IMHO, I don't think "drag-and-drop" is such a big deal, especially in context of the (admittedly unscientific) poll here concerning 4th-gen features. If you really wanted a good feature in keeping with MD's purported emphasis as a recorder, I'd think drag-n-drop wouldn't be as important as, for example, more bitrate variety.

To reiterate my own problems with the software - I really dislike the way SS can take control of the files on your HD (if you let it), and the organization of music files under SS is a bit cryptic.

I must say, though - I've never had any problem with UL/DL from SS that wasn't due to a crappy, outdated OS.

peace

WaywardTraveller

[jonny mac]

OK, now you've had some experience with MD, you can see how great it is, by your own admission. Now consider that Sony are doing very little to preserve the format and you don't know for how long new equipment will be available. Are you moaning yet? Imagine that you've been using it for ten years (as some people here have), and have possibly thousands invested in it. Are you griping yet?

I agree that there is a lot of moaning around MD forums, but there is reason for it. When you've been using something that's perfect for your needs and you can see how it could be even better, but the gigantic multinational corporation that created it can't see that, you're a bit unhappy about it.

But welcome to MD, you've got yourself a great recorder/player.

[A440]

I assume you are running a current version of SonicStage, like 3.4 or 4.0 . Those run smoothly (unless you happen to have a lot of unconventionally tagged mp3s). I haven't had any SonicStage problems in at least a year.

But earlier versions of SonicStage were much less reliable, much more restrictive, harder to uninstall, occasionally vicious--ERASING FOREVER a track if you tried to upload it twice!--and well deserving of moans. Since Sony made minidisc so dependent on SonicStage, it had no right to inflict what was essentially beta software on users.

On the Internet, old outdated information survives forever, and is often easier to access with a search engine because it has had more time to develop links. People moaned a lot about OMG Jukebox and SonicStage 2.x. There has been far less moaning since SonicStage 3.2. But when people buy an older MD, open the package, and install the SonicStage 2.0 disc that came with it, there can be unhappy consequences.

People are still losing recordings to the old restrictive encryption because they think they can simply copy files from their hard drive before formatting their PCs, instead of backing them up through SonicStage's mysterious backup tool and online validator.

I'm one of the people who do think drag-and-drop is a better idea. I have a lipstick-sized 1GB Iriver T30, which is drag-and-drop. If I have an .mp3 album, it zips onto the unit via USB 2.0 . If I want to transfer a CD, I can use iTunes like Simple Burner simply by changing the destination of its Import function. The T30 interface is a little clumsier than MD--lots of button pushing to find a song--but the size and ease of transfer makes up for it. Much as I love minidisc for recording, since I got the T30 the MD hasn't been my portable player.

[Richard]

Welcome to the format + the forums excubitor. Good to hear you are enjoying MD thus far.

* Moving to Hi- / MD Evaluations + Criticisms

[milomind]

I am one of those moaners about SonicStage, and you make a good point about being turned off by some of the things said turning people off from Minidisc. It can get a little cynical in here sometimes. However, as an audio professional who uses his Minidisc recorder to do my work, I am often stymied by how the DRM Sony uses in their software confounds my efforts. If I didn't firmly believe that restrictive DRM issues have and will cause serious problems in the future, I wouldn't complain so vociferously about them. You should be able to do what you want with what you own. We have come a long way from NetMD, and I applaud Sony's efforts to free up some of the features in the format, but in waiting so long to do so they may have killed their own creation, but hopefully not. So, welcome to the community, and take heart that there are tons of Harley Davidson fanatics out there who would die before riding anything else, and those bikes are truly crap. At least Minidisc is top notch equipment to be a fanatic for.

[pata2001]

Sonicstage has worked flawlessly. I find it much better than Real player and media player. Its very intuitive.

You lot should feel grateful you don't have to battle with iTunes. http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-music/a...9337267409.html.

Atrac3Plus is absolutely amazing. The quality of sound at 64kbps is fantastic. The file size of a typical song is about 1.7M which is half the size of an equivalent mp3. The moaners on this site tried to say that Sony was being misleading in saying that 47 hours of music could fit on a 1 gig disk and that the quality would be virtually unlistenable. Boy have they proved to be wrong.

I have concluded that most of these moaners are people who want to rip off music from the Internet and play it through their sound system. In other words they are using Atrac3, minidisc and Sonicstage for something which it is not designed to do. Use it properly and fairly and it is a marvellous device.

Thumbs up Sony for providing us with a great technology and thumbs down minidisc users for the many hateful words I have read directed at Sony (not always on this forum)

Apple releases iTunes7 fixes in a couple of weeks. How long does it take for Sony to make sonicstage actually stable?

Atrac3+ was amazing. Listen to HE-AAC at 48kbps, and compare that to Atrac3+ 48kbps.

People here are not moaners. If you're actually into MD and recording, you would have purchased an RH1.

Thumbs down for Sony for not realizing a potential format until it's way too late.

[KJ_Palmer]

We do seem to have some moaners here, though maybe no more than on any other forum.

A lot of people who post here do in fact seem to be moaning with good reason, eg. why doesn't Sonicstage work or do this and that. Some of the gripes here from MD fans are often about why is Sony abandoning a perfectly good format - often directed at Sony itself, which can seem even more like pointless moaning. The rest of the moans may be genuine though...

Edited September 29, 2006 by Borat

[raintheory]

How often to people post threads about things working perfectly versus when there's a problem anyway?

[Richard]

How often to people post threads about things working perfectly versus when there's a problem anyway?

That's right, and when someone does venture out into the open and actually say "well you know what, these things actually work ok for me", they immediately get shot down... I mean come on guys....

[KrazyIvan]

Well, FWIW, I have never had a problem with SS that I did not cause myself. I started with version 2. Right now I have SSCP installed on my laptop and SS3.4 on my workstation.

[WaywardTraveller]

People here are not moaners. If you're actually into MD and recording, you would have purchased an RH1.

I disgree with this and think this is a pretty unfair and elitist thing to say. First, some people here are moaners (which may change from topic to topic); second, I'm certainly in to MD and into recording to a certain (amateur) extent, but the fact is that the recording quality of the RH1 and, say, the NH600 are identical; the PCM quality of recordings made on either will be the same. If there's anything out there that proves otherwise, I'd like to see it.

Then again, what do I know? I don't own an RH1...

peace

WaywardTraveller

Edited September 30, 2006 by WaywardTraveller

[Sparda]

I am one of thoses sonicstage moaners aswell, have you ever used the older versions of sonicstage? its was super restrictive to the extent that many owners didn't want to use md players any more. iirc you couldn't even delete tracks from the libary so you end up with many tracks that don't even exist on your computer anymore.

[pata2001]

I disgree with this and think this is a pretty unfair and elitist thing to say.

Speaking of elitist, read what the OP wrote.

I have concluded that most of these moaners are people who want to rip off music from the Internet and play it through their sound system. In other words they are using Atrac3, minidisc and Sonicstage for something which it is not designed to do. Use it properly and fairly and it is a marvellous device.

So I guess he/she is allmighty and the only person who uses MD properly. Yeah, whatever.

[atrain]

i really like sonicstage 4.0 it's the first jukebox software i've ever used as a jukebox & i've tried most of them. it's faster & cleaner than previous versions, uses far less sys resources than itunes 6 let alone 7 & hasn't crashed once since the day it was released.

how about that?

[danielbb90]

I love sonicstage, and I think I've only had 1 or 2 crashes since version 2.0 that came with my NH1.

I haven't sound found better music software (besides WMP 11 that is similar)

Edited September 30, 2006 by danielbb90

[Tunster]

Apple releases iTunes7 fixes in a couple of weeks. How long does it take for Sony to make sonicstage actually stable?

Atrac3+ was amazing. Listen to HE-AAC at 48kbps, and compare that to Atrac3+ 48kbps.

People here are not moaners. If you're actually into MD and recording, you would have purchased an RH1.

Thumbs down for Sony for not realizing a potential format until it's way too late.

Just coming back to this post made by pata2001.

1) HE-AAC uses Parametric Stereo technology to make it sound much more compelling than anything else at that bitrate. Atrac3+ was never designed to compete with HE-AAC. But I'll assure you that its far better than a 48kbps MP3 44.1Khz file .

2) MD was a niché product that appealed big time to recording professionals/enthusiasts because of its far more advanced features. Sony didn't have to make it a competitor against MP3/other DAP players. They chose to and knew probably knew they werent going to succeed. Potential was very minimal and thats probably why they didn't commit 110% of their resources towards it.

3) You cannot really compare iTunes and Sonicstage. SS is purely software that acts as inbetween to uploading songs. iTunes is a music store thats gives you the "capibility" to upload to their DAPs.

The majority here do not complain. There are some however that they think they know it all and want to slam parts of the format even though they have it themselves. Being an even more niché format, I think we all feel there can be improvements made. But you could say that about any product.

[A440]

3) You cannot really compare iTunes and Sonicstage. SS is purely software that acts as inbetween to uploading songs. iTunes is a music store thats gives you the "capibility" to upload to their DAPs.

As I said, I've had no problems with SonicStage since 3.2.

But you can indeed compare iTunes and SonicStage. Both are music library/playback software that intend to become the default player for all music files on your computer--and will, if you're not careful on the install. Both have online stores attached (Connect for Sony). Both rip CDs to their proprietary formats. Both export to your DAP.

I only use SonicStage to upload. But that's not all it pretends to do.

[WaywardTraveller]

i really like sonicstage 4.0 it's the first jukebox software i've ever used as a jukebox & i've tried most of them. it's faster & cleaner than previous versions, uses far less sys resources than itunes 6 let alone 7 & hasn't crashed once since the day it was released.

how about that?

POST FLAGGED AND REPORTED TO MODERATOR.

peace

WaywardTraveller

[MDX-400]

Speaking of elitist, read what the OP wrote.

So I guess he/she is allmighty and the only person who uses MD properly. Yeah, whatever.

I know eh, like what's up with that?

As everyone else said there are bound to be some moaners but not all of us are. There's lots of legitimate complaining and shortcomings of SS and other Sony software...

The problem is the OP not only seems to be acting like they're above everyone, but also ignores the possiblity that they might ever encounter a problem. It's fine to say everything's working well and they have had no problems after one month. But let's say they go to do something slightly different than their "usual" routine with the software and they run into a hitch. Or let's say he/she runs into an unexpected problem a little later. Maybe we should then call them a moaner when they post for hlep and not help them? LOL.

Also given the fact that the OP says that ATRAC3plus at 64kbps sounds "fantastic" we probably shouldn't take what they're saying all that seriously, LOL. You can't really be an elitist if you think 64kbps anything is end-all and be-all...

[flexster]

moaners? where?

SS 1.8 was the first software by Sony i used a year or 2 ago with my nh 900, and while the player AND the format is excellent, the software screwed it up for me. However when i got a broadband connection and installed newer software (4.0 currently) it's way easier to use and more stable too!

[Sparky191]

...I nearly didnt buy it because of all the moaning by users on this and other forums about Sonicstage software and difficulties uploading and downloading to computer. In the end I persisted with the purchase because I needed an excellent recorder. I figured I would buy an mp3 player for playback. However the minidisc has exceeded all my expectations and has shown off minidisc users as a bunch of gripers and moaners. Sonicstage has worked flawlessly. I find it much better than Real player and media player. Its very intuitive.

You lot should feel grateful you don't have to battle with iTunes. http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-music/a...9337267409.html.

Atrac3Plus is absolutely amazing. The quality of sound at 64kbps is fantastic. The file size of a typical song is about 1.7M which is half the size of an equivalent mp3. The moaners on this site tried to say that Sony was being misleading in saying that 47 hours of music could fit on a 1 gig disk and that the quality would be virtually unlistenable. Boy have they proved to be wrong. ...

You've used it a month and you're an expert? Perhaps this is meant to be flame bait?

I've never had problems with SonicStage, (or iTunes for that matter) but I don't think its a well designed application and its quite limited. Mind you Real player and media player are just as bad. At the moment I prefer MediaMonkey. Still not perfect either.

The words 64kps and sound quality so not belong in the same sentence. If your happy with that fine. But a lot of people prefer higher bitrates and better sound quality. Each to their own.

[Odyssey]

These are quite interesting comments flying back and forth.

Let me put it this way, At one time or another, we have all been moaners(PERIOD)!

I can truthfully say, that I have never had a problem with any MD that I have had in the portable units. The decks are another story, but I won't go there.

Now, to clarify my statement, I have never owned or used a "net"MD and have never used Sonic Stage. Then again, I have never needed it.

I have two MDs and two players and I wouldn't give up one of them.

The MD should have taken its rightful place as the Phillipes Cassette faded away but, as we all know, it didn't turn out that way.

But the MD has held on and with the MZ-RH1 and MZ-200, has replaced any type of MD recorder ever make. And being backward compatible, your old MD recorders will still be of use for many years to come.

I did think it interesting that SONY turned the market a bit, making the MZ-RH1/200 a professional interest. In reality, the professional market has been using MDs for some time. The forums will back this statement up.

The lack of a deck or car player does bring fears of limited production but who knows what Sony is thinking. You have to figure, they dropped millions to produce these recorders, to a limited market. This is quite a task for a company to invest money into and secure a profit.

but hey, they built it and its the best ever. All I can say is, ENJOY. Nothing out there can match what the latest MD recorders can do.

O

[King Ghidora]

I've been using MD recorders and players since before there was a Sonic Stage. I never have had any problems with Sony software because I knew the limitations of it and I stayed away from expecting it to do things it clearly wasn't good at doing. With my NetMD player I used Simple Burner instead of Sonic Stage or OpenMG. I did my homework and found that Sony software just wasn't all that great and there were ways to avoid it's pitfalls and problems. I made sure I didn't turn control of my computer over to Sony at any point. I don't need my songs converted to Sony's format. I just need to transfer songs to discs so i can listen to them or I need to transfer recordings from my recorder to my computer. I just set up ways to avoid Sony having control over my songs and I was always fine with their software.

I know it's a shame that their software doesn't operate as promised but that's just how it goes sometimes. I love the quality of their players and I have found many uses for them over the years. I do understand that it stinks that Sony is trying to let MD die a pre-mature death. I just don't expect them to listen to us when they make that decision. Sony does what Sony wants to do.

There are plenty of things to complain about when it comes to MD and especially the software. But there are things that are great about the format too. I just try to look at the positive side and ignore the lost possiblities.

[A440]

Hey, what music library program loads slowly, ties up system resources like crazy, has peculiar quirks (like not getting new CDDB information if you take out one CD and insert another one) and defaults to imposing its own proprietary DRM?

Right: iTunes.

I've been using it lately to import albums to my mp3 player, and I have to say, Apple sure has its fans hypnotized. Unless you have iTunes "helper" load on Startup--no thanks--it is just as slow to open as SonicStage is, and just as sure as SonicStage that it should grab all your filetypes and open itself every time you bring a CD anywhere near the computer. Every other running program, small or large, slows down. If you open iTunes without your mp3 player (default Import To: drive) already attached, it defaults back to its own directory to import music, which you then have to change back. Yes, SonicStage is uglier. But beyond the eye candy, iTunes is about as clunky as SonicStage, IMHO.

[Sparky191]

Hey, what music library program loads slowly, ties up system resources like crazy, has peculiar quirks (like not getting new CDDB information if you take out one CD and insert another one) and defaults to imposing its own proprietary DRM?

Right: iTunes.

I've been using it lately to import albums to my mp3 player, and I have to say, Apple sure has its fans hypnotized. Unless you have iTunes "helper" load on Startup--no thanks--it is just as slow to open as SonicStage is, and just as sure as SonicStage that it should grab all your filetypes and open itself every time you bring a CD anywhere near the computer. Every other running program, small or large, slows down. If you open iTunes without your mp3 player (default Import To: drive) already attached, it defaults back to its own directory to import music, which you then have to change back. Yes, SonicStage is uglier. But beyond the eye candy, iTunes is about as clunky as SonicStage, IMHO.

I'm not a fan of iTunes but I don't have the problems you are having with it. I point it at a specific directory D:\My iTunes and don't have an iPod but it remembers everything fine. It doesn't try to import my CD's but then I turn off the iPod and iTunes services to minimize the resource hit. I prefer the way iTunes handles the whole genre browsing. I find SS clunky. But I don't have a problem using either.

My preferred music manager is Media Monkey. But I use it alongside iTunes, and SonicStage.

[brian10161]

iv been using itunes more so lately because i have an ipod. thats really the only reason i have been using it more so. the one other reason i keep using it, is because AAC sounds better than MP3 at the same bitrates, so most (if not all) of my cd's have been ripped to that format. so now, im stuck with 50 cd's converted to AAC rather than MP3. which is a problem for me, because my mp3 player doesnt play AAC nor does sonicstage. so i would have to rip my cd's to different formats for all 3 of my DAPS.

iv been using itunes for at least a year now, and i havent had any problems with it. other than it being a bit slow on startup, its fine for me. i dont do things with it that i know it can't do, so i dont have too much trouble. same goes for sonicstage. iv had trouble with neither, but i have had a lot of problems with other media players, like winamp, windows media player and foobar, mainly just when testing new things. but wmp is about the worst media player iv used, it works alright, but its lacking in a lot of areas.

sonicstage could benefit from a lot of new features, but beggers cant be choosers i guess

i have had nothing but good luck with my MD player. it wasn't an expensive one, but its certainly not a cheap one. iv converted a lot of cd's to it (SP and LP2, not LP4) and i love the quality. especially the gapless playback i had the rockbox firmware on my ipod for a while, but i didnt like it enough to stick with it.

all in all, i like both itunes and sonicstage, but i feel they both can benefit greatly from a lot of features. but then again, everything can. i mean, look at windows, its already on the verge of a major revamp and w/e.

im back to the MD format now