Sony ditches ATRAC, SonicStage in B100 solid state walkman

[Webmaster]

As first reported in AtracLife, articles in Engadget and elsewhere indicate that Sony has dropped ATRAC and SonicStage from its latest solid state walkman, preferring the MP3 format and Drag-and-drop loading. The Sony NWD-B100, to be introduced in Europe in August, comes in 1GB and 2GB flavors and plays audio in MP3, WMA and streaming analog FM formats.

[Strungup]

That's it ,..... Lower the flags to half mast .

what an amazing journey , to see the first one , all the way to the last one , watching the struggle for acceptance .

Requiem ,for a freind . MD will always be my favorite , and I will play and Record on them untill the cannot take a disc any longer .

I will scour the Hardoffs in Japan , to collect the rejected of modern technology , just to let them play one more disc.

[sallymae_hogsby]

bump

Edited July 27, 2007 by sallymae_hogsby

[THIS SUCKS]

sony should make a least 1 md model every few years as long as there is a market for them. i would like to buy a new cheaper model of the rh1.

how many people would buy a new Md model that has true drag and drop. maybe it would be 4th generation. they must still be making money on the disks they sell. being able to play music from a 1 gig disk that does not use sonic stage at all would be awesome! we could transfer the files as direct mp3's just like the new flash walkman!

[reefbeef]

Voice and FM radio recording...I wonder how well it would capture live music..?

[alexis]

First off all, that is actually a good news - like Sony understands at last that SonicStage and their stupid content locking policy prevents their products from being bought. We have been waiting for such a move for years (count how many posts here wanted "just drag and drop").

Furthermore, is this model not just an entry-level MP3 player? Normal people like you and I (well, actually not like you and I - people sticking to Sony's idiosyncrasies cannot be normal ) just want the shortest way: copy the MP3 files they have just illegally downloaded to their player with one mouse movement, and go outside enjoy life. This model is for them - inexpensive, simple to use, looks good, works.

How we could benefit from this recent move from Sony is if they release a more advanced player (say, hard disk based, or even ... based on Hi-MD no, no, no I'm dreaming) aimed at more tech- or sound-savvy people with deeper pockets, where all you had to do is to drag-and-drop DRM-free .OMA files into. This is actually just what we have all wished for years, so let us hold our breath and wait for Sony to produce this wonderful device (well, Sony hurry up otherwise we will all be dead soon).

I can only grief on Sony ditching ATRAC (well, ATRAC3plus) which is a superior codec, but we can imagine that ATRAC is to MP3 what DTS is to Dolby digital... MP3 is not a really bad, just was at the right place at the right moment - and the ATRACxxx codecs will certainly retain a strong set of loyal followers (at least one: me).

[BIGHMW]

I can only grief on Sony ditching ATRAC (well, ATRAC3plus) which is a superior codec, but we can imagine that ATRAC is to MP3 what DTS is to Dolby digital... MP3 is not a really bad, just was at the right place at the right moment - and the ATRACxxx codecs will certainly retain a strong set of loyal followers (at least one: me).

Count me in too in my 9+ year loyalty to ATRAC, just remember, as the code of The Source says in the verses:

ATRAC or DEATH!!!

[Sparky191]

Is that not old news? I thought I'd heard of it a long time ago.

[bobzilli]

Heard these were coming a few months back but I thought it was strange they were the ONLY new ones with this new..a.."feature". I agree with previous posters that I would like real drag n drop, without DRM, but I do like the quality of ATRAC and am weary.Then aain, I dont plan on buying one of these anyway, so...

[tekdroid]

Normal people like you and I (well, actually not like you and I - people sticking to Sony's idiosyncrasies cannot be normal )

I have aversions to buying any device limited to the charge cycles of its internal Li-Ion embedded battery, but all the same this IS indeed good news and a step to sanity for Sony.

It would be mildly amusing to test their "Automatically copies music files from PC with built in

‘Auto Transfer’" software they wrote about in their press release, but as long as it's not necessary it should be easily ditched.

Simply dropping SonicStage has made this the most interesting Walkman since Hi-MD was released (to me). That's sort of sad but funny at the same time.

[mmp64]

As first reported in AtracLife, articles in Engadget and elsewhere indicate that Sony has dropped ATRAC and SonicStage from its latest solid state walkman, preferring the MP3 format and Drag-and-drop loading. The Sony NWD-B100, to be introduced in Europe in August, comes in 1GB and 2GB flavors and plays audio in MP3, WMA and streaming analog FM formats.

There is actually value in having music management software. One of the reasons I began using an iPod, in addition to all of my Stony stuff, was because I liked the "Smart Playlist" feature. I have a large music collection (12,000+ tunes) and trying to manually make interesting playlists was tiresome. With Smart Playlists, I can make playlists based on song ratings, number of times played, last time played, genre, etc. etc. While SS did eventually develop a similar feature, it is crude and limited compared to iTunes.

[Sparky191]

There is actually value in having music management software. One of the reasons I began using an iPod, in addition to all of my Stony stuff, was because I liked the "Smart Playlist" feature. I have a large music collection (12,000+ tunes) and trying to manually make interesting playlists was tiresome. With Smart Playlists, I can make playlists based on song ratings, number of times played, last time played, genre, etc. etc. While SS did eventually develop a similar feature, it is crude and limited compared to iTunes.

Well said. Lots of people dismiss this but is a very powerful feature. Its one of the things that would make me consider an iPod in the future. At the moment I'm happy to manage my music myself.

[tekdroid]

There is actually value in having music management software. One of the reasons I began using an iPod, in addition to all of my Stony stuff, was because I liked the "Smart Playlist" feature. I have a large music collection (12,000+ tunes) and trying to manually make interesting playlists was tiresome. With Smart Playlists, I can make playlists based on song ratings, number of times played, last time played, genre, etc. etc. While SS did eventually develop a similar feature, it is crude and limited compared to iTunes.

I have never used smart playlists so excuse my ignorance. Why can't the hardware itself do something like this. Why does it have to be PC-based software?

Seeing these are 1GB-2GB devices, I think the scope for management is bit limited tho. Forget putting 12,000 tunes on here.

I think the key is choice, which Sony are finally giving their regular Walkman customers. Before this it was lovely SonicStage on every machine for music.

What I'd love to see is drag-n-drop being standard on all Walkmans, with the option for great software (but that isn't a requirement) to get music on (and off) the Walkman.

It seems they might have that with these models, but I'm expecting a fairly rudimentary application (and to be honest, I doubt anymore is needed for these models). Lossless file support is lacking, too, which totally rules out these models for me, even when they hit the bargain bins.

[jay209]

I have never used smart playlists so excuse my ignorance. Why can't the hardware itself do something like this. Why does it have to be PC-based software?

Seeing these are 1GB-2GB devices, I think the scope for management is bit limited tho. Forget putting 12,000 tunes on here.

I think the key is choice, which Sony are finally giving their regular Walkman customers. Before this it was lovely SonicStage on every machine for music.

What I'd love to see is drag-n-drop being standard on all Walkmans, with the option for great software (but that isn't a requirement) to get music on (and off) the Walkman.

It seems they might have that with these models, but I'm expecting a fairly rudimentary application (and to be honest, I doubt anymore is needed for these models). Lossless file support is lacking, too, which totally rules out these models for me, even when they hit the bargain bins.

ouch... sad. but it was a dying race. anyway, i did enjoy having a MD player too, but the simplicity in other players just kept me from tinkering with it too much.

perhaps these things'll be collector's items

[Sparky191]

I have never used smart playlists so excuse my ignorance. Why can't the hardware itself do something like this. Why does it have to be PC-based software?

Seeing these are 1GB-2GB devices, I think the scope for management is bit limited tho. Forget putting 12,000 tunes on here....

Because generally the bulk of the music is on the PC not the portable device.

Playlists are a huge feature for Shuffle as is encoding to lower bit rates on the fly.

[mmp64]

I have never used smart playlists so excuse my ignorance. Why can't the hardware itself do something like this. Why does it have to be PC-based software?

That is an interesting idea which I've thought about before - thught not as a complete replacement for an PC-based application, but rather as a "mobile" version. I think it would require a very good touch-screen interface, and/or something like a Palm or Nintendo DS (with a stylus) to be effective. Also enough processing power to handle a potentially large database. One issue is that we seem to be moving away from massive hard drive-based units to smaller flash units (in terms of having one's entire music library).

Edited July 28, 2007 by mmp64

[Sony_Fan]

Sony should have allowed clear MP3 playback when their first NetMd models came out. I'm waiting for my M200 to arrive and I will gladly showed it off in front of iPod users who will look at my unit with curiosity and ask, "What is that?!!"

Hi-MD >>> iPod.

[Sparky191]

That is an interesting idea which I've thought about before - thught not as a complete replacement for an PC-based application, but rather as a "mobile" version. I think it would require a very good touch-screen interface, and/or something like a Palm or Nintendo DS (with a stylus) to be effective. Also enough processing power to handle a potentially large database. One issue is that we seem to be moving away from massive hard drive-based units to smaller flash units (in terms of having one's entire music library).

Lots of MP3 players have dynamic playlists. You can add tracks or see last played etc. The iTunes ones go a bit further in that you can script them and do all sort of things with them.

[mmp64]

Lots of MP3 players have dynamic playlists. You can add tracks or see last played etc. The iTunes ones go a bit further in that you can script them and do all sort of things with them.

Yes, I know. I was talking about having a UI to do the kinds of things that iTunes does.

[Strungup]

There is a Blurb on Cnet about the b100 it is out in the UK already in certain places , and getting pretty good marks

But the CNET guys were REAALY bashing SONIC STage , I quote " It's about damn time they decided to ditch that Most ignomious worst ever written peaice of software forced on Mankind "

Ouch

[bobt]

There is a Blurb on Cnet about the b100 it is out in the UK already in certain places , and getting pretty good marks

But the CNET guys were REAALY bashing SONIC STage , I quote " It's about damn time they decided to ditch that Most ignomious worst ever written peaice of software forced on Mankind "

Ouch

guess they've never used wondoze

Bon

[mmp64]

There is a Blurb on Cnet about the b100 it is out in the UK already in certain places , and getting pretty good marks

But the CNET guys were REAALY bashing SONIC STage , I quote " It's about damn time they decided to ditch that Most ignomious worst ever written peaice of software forced on Mankind "

Ouch

Sony is an easy target - I'd be surprised if half of the writers that bash Sonic Stage and/or ATRAC and/or MD have ever used any of them.

[jadeclaw]

I'm not surprised. Paidcontent already reported here, that the Connect Store will be converted into a Playstation services outlet.

And without the Connect store, SonicStage isn't really necessary, as there is nothing downloadable, that has to be protected.

By the way, the 1GB-Version (NWD-B103) is already available on the german Sony-Website, 50 Euro without Radio, 60 Euro with radio including Sales Tax.

Edited July 29, 2007 by jadeclaw

[Strungup]

wow , " all hands meeeting , 20 people told they get the boot " MD is right behind it .wont be long now " Nurse take the pulse " ...." Doctor ,. I can barely feel it , may I borrow the stethoscope?" " Hmmm this isnt looking good , better call the Family members , "

[carlesraf]

I will use my MD as long as my units works (I have 5 diferents units for this proupose ), i don't like walkmans based on hard drive or flahs memory, Minidisc (or Hi-Md) is for my the bether choise for many rasons....low cost media, verstalie edit functions, low power consumition...

Now my MZ-RH1 its on reparation....afther a lot of drops during regular use......(afther a 1 year of heavy use) sure that HD walkmans aren't so srtong than my Mz-RH1

Atrac sounds great , rather than mp3 :-) and Sonicstage, the lastes version is a good program,very similar than itunes i.e

[Hombre]

Just because Sony stop supporting Atrac doesn't mean it is dead. For example the record industry quit making vinyl to sell CD's. But loyalist kept it alive for years. Vinyl enthusiast choose vinyl in belief of better sound. In Europe record companies are releasing old vinyl and new releases on vinyl. Last year Vinyl sales in Europe grew 50% and in the USA about 30%.

The point here is that one day if we stay true to Atrac it my survive and have a resurgence.

[mmp64]

Just because Sony stop supporting Atrac doesn't mean it is dead. For example the record industry quit making vinyl to sell CD's. But loyalist kept it alive for years. Vinyl enthusiast choose vinyl in belief of better sound. In Europe record companies are releasing old vinyl and new releases on vinyl. Last year Vinyl sales in Europe grew 50% and in the USA about 30%.

The point here is that one day if we stay true to Atrac it my survive and have a resurgence.

I don't think Sony makes any money supporting ATRAC on a device vs. MP3. Record companies make money selling vinyl, or they wouldn't do it. In fact, it probably costs Sony more money to support multiple Codecs per device. I know they have licensing agreements with a couple companies - Sharp is the only one I can think of - but that really doesn't matter much any more, and certainly not in the States. The future of ATRAC depends on how long Sony keeps the one remaining MD unit alive, I would think. Does anyone know what the flash recorder unit uses?

[Hombre]

I don't think Sony makes any money supporting ATRAC on a device vs. MP3. Record companies make money selling vinyl, or they wouldn't do it. In fact, it probably costs Sony more money to support multiple Codecs per device. I know they have licensing agreements with a couple companies - Sharp is the only one I can think of - but that really doesn't matter much any more, and certainly not in the States. The future of ATRAC depends on how long Sony keeps the one remaining MD unit alive, I would think. Does anyone know what the flash recorder unit uses?

Good point.

Point taken.

[Sparky191]

ATRAC is supported on a lot of Sony DAPs as is MP3. TBH they put so little effort into ATRAC these days it can't have a bright future. Unless something new happens with it.

[DATfan]

ATRAC is supported on a lot of Sony DAPs as is MP3. TBH they put so little effort into ATRAC these days it can't have a bright future. Unless something new happens with it.

Right, I see that there is something called "ATRAC LOSSLESS" but you can only burn it to CD-ROMs, not transfer to MD.

[pata2001]

Sony is an easy target - I'd be surprised if half of the writers that bash Sonic Stage and/or ATRAC and/or MD have ever used any of them.

Or maybey it's because they tried and were frustrated by it?

[Sparky191]

Anyone buy one of these MP3 players B100? Locally they seem to be quite cheap.

[Haratio Hellipop]

As first reported in AtracLife, articles in Engadget and elsewhere indicate that Sony has dropped ATRAC and SonicStage from its latest solid state walkman, preferring the MP3 format and Drag-and-drop loading. The Sony NWD-B100, to be introduced in Europe in August, comes in 1GB and 2GB flavors and plays audio in MP3, WMA and streaming analog FM formats.

Well that's the end for me it's time to give up and go over to itunes, I have battled with Sonic Stage from 1.5 up to 4.3 and now when I feel they have got a great system Sony will not support in the future I could not believe that my Sony Erricsson phone did nt support Atrac.

I have bought more MD players than I care to mention and more recently different MP3 players, I have over 50GB of Atrac 48k saved.

I recently purchased a Sony iplod stereo in the car so I record Atrac CD's and play them in the and now this.

No I will not give up must go on

[MD_MM_05]

ouch... sad. but it was a dying race. anyway, i did enjoy having a MD player too, but the simplicity in other players just kept me from tinkering with it too much.

perhaps these things'll be collector's items

OK. I just buy one : NWD-B105F (2GB with FM-radio). Yes, it looks and feels more like a cheap toy (full plastic). But, the sound is better than I've expected. Good bass and highs with custom tone control (forget the presets) and with good earphones. Good noise to signal ratio (better than my NW-S706). drag/drop works fine. I use the player with my MacBook Pro: no problem. When putting new files one the player, it takes a little during startup to recreate the internal music database. Searching by artist/album sorts the files alphabetical, not by track number . Finally I use sorting by folder/track name. I have not so much experience with mic- and FM-recording, but for me the records are 'OK' (voices and FM-sound are clear with 128k). FM seems not so sensitive like the S706. I can't say so much about the battery life, because, until now, I plug the player often back to the USB. Operation is very easy, just like the latest Atrac/mp3-devices. Conclusion: -software and design=SONY, internal hardware=???

[kentek]

Count me in too in my 9+ year loyalty to ATRAC, just remember, as the code of The Source says in the verses:

ATRAC or DEATH!!!

Cake please.

:-)

[tekdroid]

Searching by artist/album sorts the files alphabetical, not by track number

not sure what you mean here.

Isn't that standard? To get an alphabetical listing of artist/ album ?

Edited August 17, 2007 by tekdroid

[Haratio Hellipop]

I never know what to expect as standard with Sony products these days, is the FM radio any good on it

[Sparky191]

I never know what to expect as standard with Sony products these days, is the FM radio any good on it

Does it have a radio? I thought it didn't.

[Haratio Hellipop]

Does it have a radio? I thought it didn't.

I think the 2GB one does NWD-B105F (2GB with FM-radio)

[MD_MM_05]

not sure what you mean here.

Isn't that standard? To get an alphabetical listing of artist/ album ?

You are right, the artist/album list is alphabetical, but the track list for each selected album/artist as well.