Whats Next for Mini Disc: Share Your Ideas

[amniceguy]

Whats next after Hi-Md? Do you think flash memory and touch screen mini disc players will play a new role in redesign the portable player. I believe if so that opens the doors to possible watching movies on mini disc just like I-Pod and have better access to library and no more scrolls. No only that shooting video on the mini disc instead of the boring idea of a digital mini disc camera. Perhaps a blue ray mini disc player that is backwards compatible. Maybe flash memory wouldn't be needed after all. Wouldn't be cool if your mini disc portable was a blue ray mini disc player you could hook up to the tv and watch movies pictures, home videos.

[Juan22]

No I dont think so. at least for me that would be just the MD trying to be the ipod, wich I dont like.

Im very happy with how loyal the MD format has been, I bought it because I wanted MUSIC, not photos, or videos or TV or DVD or Microwave etc.

I like the minidisc to stay the way it is. versatil, great soundquality and cheap price. thats all I ask.

Sorry for being harsh but thats what I think.

Also keep in mind Sony stoped making MDs...so this discussion is more about your hopes for the future than reality.

[GQ Smooth]

No I dont think so. at least for me that would be just the MD trying to be the ipod, wich I dont like.

Im very happy with how loyal the MD format has been, I bought it because I wanted MUSIC, not photos, or videos or TV or DVD or Microwave etc.

I like the minidisc to stay the way it is. versatil, great soundquality and cheap price. thats all I ask.

Sorry for being harsh but thats what I think.

Also keep in mind Sony stoped making MDs...so this discussion is more about your hopes for the future than reality.

Exactly. I just want to listen to music. I'm not into Podcasts, and anything visual .I have a TV & a DVD recorder. If others want to do that on a portable, fine, but I'm happy with what MDs provide. it would be nice if, what with the sucrss of the RH1, that Sony developed another Hi-MD unit that wasn't so expensive, but apart from that I think the format is what it is.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Old Skool D

[brian10161]

Music all the way, just make the RH1 able to display the song names and albums on the OLED display, and maybe add GP skip Forward/Back buttons to the unit and I'd be happy.

Minor tweaks here and there are always welcome.

Also, if Sony introduced another low cost HiMD unit, and maybe an HD Amp in it, but along the lines of the NH600.

The only problem is, we can wish all we want, Sony won't do a thing. MD and HiMD are just not in use as much as they need to be to facilitate the production of such units.

I really hope MD makes a come back, but I'm probably just dreaming

[Sony_Fan]

What's next for Mini Disc? Unfortunately, nothing.

[netmduser]

Perhaps something that can record onto a flash memory card in mp3 format where the card costs only a few bucks for 1gb size.

You could also buy them with mp3s on them already which is wip.

I can see them selling a device like this for less than 100 bucks. Selling blank cards would be great for them.

[ShriDurga]

SanDisk is already doing just this.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/articl...ticleId=9125242

[tekdroid]

Maybe flash memory wouldn't be needed after all.

Do you think there's a good reason to stick with the constraints of optical discs for portable recorders in 2009? If so, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[Sony_Fan]

Do you think there's a good reason to stick with the constraints of optical discs for portable recorders in 2009? If so, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

In other words, you hate MiniDisc and you no longer want to be a part of this community. Just say it. True fans of MiniDisc support it regardless of their flaws. When you feel that it's flaws are too much for you to handle, it's time to move on to iPod or something.

[tekdroid]

In other words, you hate MiniDisc and you no longer want to be a part of this community. Just say it. True fans of MiniDisc support it regardless of their flaws. When you feel that it's flaws are too much for you to handle, it's time to move on to iPod or something.

You're hilarious.

[sinus]

You're hilarious.

agree. we're thinking people. and should accept people not following our religion! So please, Chris, be tolerant. MD is not the absolute ultimate truth for everyone.

I'd stay with MD ... because of its longevity, independence from computer etc. But more or less it's a state of mind.

[KHA]

I just bought a Memory stick for my PSP yesterday, and i must say they are doing 16 gigas in a flash card, and if i remember, the transfer speed is much more efficient than HI-MD.

I am fan of MD for music but i must recognise its non potencial for data transfer. Optical transfer is not as fast as flash sadly...

Even, if sony develops a blue-ray mini disc based system, you will have, i think, the same speed transfer issue than we had with HI-MD...

So frankly, i don't think there will be a 'next' for minidisc... and when i see Sony marketing work, i almost prefer they don't do anything about it...

[ohyesbaby]

i would say: the point is not what next for minidisc but what previous for minidisc

if sony did not set up so many stupid rules for copy right protection, ipod should not have its chance.

when people are used to listening "data" but not music, what can minidisc supporter expect?

another thing i can never understand is: why sony did not promote data minidisc from the very beginning? how many years have we used shitty floppy disk?

[tekdroid]

another thing i can never understand is: why sony did not promote data minidisc from the very beginning? how many years have we used shitty floppy disk?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD_Data

[ohyesbaby]

i certainly know sony has those data-md disc and device.

the problem is sony did not try to promote data-md when it had chance.

well, it might be sony's business style: always screw itself up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD_Data

[tekdroid]

i certainly know sony has those data-md disc and device.

the problem is sony did not try to promote data-md when it had chance.

well, it might be sony's business style: always screw itself up.

I think it takes more than promotion. The thing was slow, very slow. CD-R was big just a few years later and much cheaper to build and compatible with millions of players. MD Data also had limited capacity and was relatively expensive to manufacture, too (actually far more expensive to build, and it is still is now compared to flash-based players, regular CDs burners, DVD burners, etc).

While it gets points for cool, it's debatable what a big advertising budget would have achieved here given competing storage formats of the time(s).

[sinus]

What would be cool if there were a mixed-mode standard for MDs ...

So that you can have your ultra-compatible MD with SP and MDLP recordings plus a part in Hi-MD where you can either store files or use it as Hi-MD audio part. the "enhanced MD" so to speak!

[ohyesbaby]

tekdriod mentioned "flash-based players", then there is no meaning to keep on discussing mixed-mode MD.

after all, there is only 1GB capacity for a Hi-MD disc, which costs almost the same as a no brand 1GB flash-memory mp3 player.

i have to admit that sony lost the market for MD and there is no way to get that market back.

sony killed its baby.

What would be cool if there were a mixed-mode standard for MDs ...

So that you can have your ultra-compatible MD with SP and MDLP recordings plus a part in Hi-MD where you can either store files or use it as Hi-MD audio part. the "enhanced MD" so to speak!

[kino170878]

Comparing Flash with Minidisc is like comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different technologies. With Flash you can't approach the editing capability that you can do on a MD, the reason being the magneto-optical technology and the ability to update the table of contents (TOC).

Flash can obviously go higher (16gb on one stick is affordable now) which is great. Everybody would love to see Minidisc achieving that sort of size. But unfortunately I don't think the technology is up to it.

[JFK]

Comparing Flash with Minidisc is like comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different technologies. With Flash you can't approach the editing capability that you can do on a MD, the reason being the magneto-optical technology and the ability to update the table of contents (TOC).

Flash can obviously go higher (16gb on one stick is affordable now) which is great. Everybody would love to see Minidisc achieving that sort of size. But unfortunately I don't think the technology is up to it.

Kind of, and not kind of. On the go versatility is a strong point for MD, true, but according to a couple of researchs I did when building the french FAQ (so a bunch of years ago)(that does also include translating parts of minidisc.org FAQ), DSR and DWDD technologies could at that time achieved even a 4,7Go capacity on a disc the size of our traditional MDs. At that time the 1To capacity was expected to be reach in 2010... (I have done a quick check of current performances and 9Gb discs are on sale...)

Just look at the references in the sections 23 24 or 88.

- DWDD explained

- 1Go explained

- Other brands patents

It should change the way you see Hi-MD technology

Edited March 12, 2009 by JFK

[Geissler]

Kind of, and not kind of. On the go versatility is a strong point for MD, true, but according to a couple of researchs I did when building the french FAQ (so a bunch of years ago)(that does also include translating parts of minidisc.org FAQ), DSR and DWDD technologies could at that time achieved even a 4,7Go capacity on a disc the size of our traditional MDs. At that time the 1To capacity was expected to be reach in 2010... (I have done a quick check of current performances and 9Gb discs are on sale...)

Just look at the references in the sections 23 24 or 88.

- DWDD explained

- 1Go explained

- Other brands patents

It should change the way you see Hi-MD technology

Yes, but even if this is true what difference does it make? When Sony is citing MD as outdated technology, it's pretty clear that its future is null.

The future of MD lies pretty much within the people of this forum, enthusiasts with an eye for quality who don't care for moving with the herd. At least for me, I know that MD is GOOD, that it gives me pleasure to use.. When everyone moved to flash players all I could think was "where are you going?". I guess the simply fact that we are here speaks volumes about sony - they were able to build products so good that people cling onto them long after their time has come. Just look at my MZ-R50: 10 years of loyal service and still going strong. If apple discontinued all ipod products tomorrow, maybe there would be some sort of hardcore underground following like us - but I bet the ipods themselves wouldn't even last a year! Hold an MD (player/media, whatever) in your hand and you see clearly that "designed to fail" does not even enter its vocabulary.

As long as people are still showing it love, MD has a future. After all, millions of blanks and players were produced over the years - the less people that use an ipod, the more there is for us

[JFK]

Yes, but even if this is true what difference does it make? When Sony is citing MD as outdated technology, it's pretty clear that its future is null.

The future of MD lies pretty much within the people of this forum, enthusiasts with an eye for quality who don't care for moving with the herd. At least for me, I know that MD is GOOD, that it gives me pleasure to use.. When everyone moved to flash players all I could think was "where are you going?". I guess the simply fact that we are here speaks volumes about sony - they were able to build products so good that people cling onto them long after their time has come. Just look at my MZ-R50: 10 years of loyal service and still going strong. If apple discontinued all ipod products tomorrow, maybe there would be some sort of hardcore underground following like us - but I bet the ipods themselves wouldn't even last a year! Hold an MD (player/media, whatever) in your hand and you see clearly that "designed to fail" does not even enter its vocabulary.

As long as people are still showing it love, MD has a future. After all, millions of blanks and players were produced over the years - the less people that use an ipod, the more there is for us

"...Sony is citing MD as outdated technology...". Sony has also been saying during years that DRM, Connect was the future, mp3 was crap...

I don't really trust Sony on everything...

Infact my point was not there. I don't believe Sony will push any further Hi-MD, I'm jus expressing that the technology implied by this media is not outdated and could compete with flash memories capacity (we could have another discussion about other facts as transfer rates and so on but that's another topic). For the biggest part of the industry and people, the whole future about music is to kill physical/removable supports...

Edited March 13, 2009 by JFK

[Geissler]

Well, as far as removeable supports go I think flash is doing pretty well for itself, if a little scattered: SD, XD, minisd, microsd, CF and even sony's memory stick..

But yeah, it's too bad because you're totally right on the MD front, the technology itself is not outdated, sony simply didn't want to take advantage of it. And when I think about it, removeable flash memory is technically superior to MD in nearly every way (cheaper, smaller, higher capacity)... So, why are we still using MD?

[bobt]

Well, as far as removeable supports go I think flash is doing pretty well for itself, if a little scattered: SD, XD, minisd, microsd, CF and even sony's memory stick..

But yeah, it's too bad because you're totally right on the MD front, the technology itself is not outdated, sony simply didn't want to take advantage of it. And when I think about it, removeable flash memory is technically superior to MD in nearly every way (cheaper, smaller, higher capacity)... So, why are we still using MD?

Because we are us, not sheep, we like what we can do with our wonders, we have neet discussions with our friends all over the world, we like being apart from the pack,

[tekdroid]

And when I think about it, removeable flash memory is technically superior to MD in nearly every way (cheaper, smaller, higher capacity)... So, why are we still using MD?

me personally, it's because there are no all-round player/recorders as good as what Sony offers (or offered) in their Hi-MD line for similar cost. So until Sony offer something like the PCM-D50 in a compact size, and with more MD features (Combine, better playback modes, titling, remotes, etc), I will keep using Hi-MD. That said, I still am tempted by the PCM-D50 and I know it goes beyond MD in lots of areas, not the least of which is higher bitrates and no damn SonicStage! .

Flash media gets weaker with every write and MD does too, but might be better than most flash media on rewrites (I suspect it is), but otherwise, I'd guess that flash media beats MD in all other areas (size, mechanical simplicity, weight, speed, dust resistance).

Perhaps some flash media might be more sensitive to static and other weirdness, and perhaps MD is better in the way it actually needs high temps to change the data, but otherwise flash media is better in almost all ways. The storage capacity and price keeps improving as years go on, along with economies of scale having so many devices use the same formats (phones, cameras, PCs, PDAs, video cameras, etc), not just Walkmans.

All it takes is a great MD-like recorder to get me to forget SonicStage and MD (but still love it), to be honest. Because all those little weaknesses it has can be gone forever by moving to a solid-state storage format.

Edited March 14, 2009 by tekdroid

[ohyesbaby]

i once read an article analyzing why sony tried everything to stop md users to digitally "upload" music. the author said the reason is very simple: sony owns a company called "sony columbia". sony need to protect its "copy right". there is internal conflicting interest among departments in sony. that might be the real reason why sony abandoned md.

for those businessmen, they only need money and they do not know/care technology.

[gabgar]

Everyone here at work thinks I am crazy when they here that I want to get a $350.00/$400.00 Minidisc player.

But if I were to get an Ipod, Zune they are all for for it.

I tell them about the sound quality and how so much differs with that of those players yet they are like, "whatever," and yet , well they are happy to hear their music on those white earbuds that deliver the worthless type of sound quality ever. Might be better if you listen to AM.

I wish only that Sony would have made Movies , Bluray in an MD format, that would have been awesome.

[tekdroid]

Everyone here at work thinks I am crazy when they here that I want to get a $350.00/$400.00 Minidisc player.

the market is driven by convenience, and today it's hard to justify MD to the average user, especially one who couldn't give a rat's about recording from live sources or line-in (who, let's face it, are nearly everyone).

First, you must find Hi-MD in stores (only one current model Hi-MD selling, two if you want to count manufacturer model number re-numberings).

Secondly, you must find (and pay for) the discs.

Thirdly, the masses remember the horrors of NetMD and lots of us remember SonicStage deleting stuff, upload restrictions, etc. These things all add up to terrible experiences and non-recommendations.

Fourthly, it doesn't do vids, isn't small, cheap, etc.

The devices selling now in the mass-market are simple in that the user loves to forget about storage mediums, and there are benefits to simplicty and lots of storage, but there are also downsides when lots of things are not removable or replaceable, IMO (naturally nearly all occurring outside the warranty period). I think within the warranty period there would be far less returns on a device without a mouth that opens up accepting discs, for example. Equalling less support costs for the manufacuter (not to mention greatly reduced manufacturing cost). However, outside this warranty period, I bet a well-taken-care-of MD unit would outlast any of these devices using embedded batteries and storage...simply 'cause these things are removable.

Anyway, MiniDisc would lose 70%+ of its potency if not for the quality (and features) of the recorders (to me). If the portables were machines that just accepted music from PCs for playback, there'd be little reason for me to get one aside from the removable batteries and storage (which are great benefits to me). I wouldn't keep one for the joy of waiting for it to transfer tracks, that's for sure.

The fact that the current model's buttons fail after a short time isn't re-assuring either. Sony don't have the perfect device here by a long shot. What they do have is the benefit of great features and recording (and playback) quality, but other devices compete on the playback front...and do it faster, easier and often better. It's really no surprise why others recommend something else. Especially when MiniDisc has traditionally come with crappy earbuds itself...there's very little differentiation to the average user who might buy one on the sound front out-of-box experience...except convenience is a LOT worse with Hi-MD to Joe and Josephine User, and they also get a lot of features their playback-only desires don't appreciate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is at the end of the day, it all makes sense and should take nobody by surprise that Hi-MD isn't taking over the world, and neither should it. It's a niche product in today's market. Today's market is also rife with disposable devices... but that's the nature of the beast until customers wake up to this fact.