SonicStage 3.0 US Version Online

[bug80]

Now, BIG potential problem:  In the bit rate selection list for transferring, there does not appear to be a "Stereo" selection which used to mean standard MD (pre MDLP) for compatibility with non LP enabled devices (such as the head unit in my car).  I will try again tonight when I have a MD recorder hooked up, but if this is true, it is a deal breaker for me at the moment since I could no longer create MD's for the car.  I can see not supporting this with the new HiMD recorders perhaps, (well, not really) but why they would take it out of SonicStage beats me.  Can anyone confirm or deny this?

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Don't panic, as soon as you connect a MD player you'll be able to select "SP mode" before transferring. At least here it works. It's still no true SP though, but ATRAC 132 kbs packed as a SP file.

Edited March 4, 2005 by bug80

[Leland]

Thanks, bug80. I just tried this at home and you are absolutely right. I plugged in my N10 and the choices changed. Phew!

Now, with the PSP and the memory stick pro duo. Interesting. With my 256 meg memory stick pro duo, SS recognized the device but complained about the memory stick not being compatible. No go as reported by lamewing. However, when I used the 32 meg Memory stick duo that came with the PSP, it worked! What is stranger, it would only transfer the file after converting it to ATRAC. Both Atrac and atrac plus worked. However, it would not transfer it as MP3 (the file I was using is an mp3 I imported but did not convert just for this test.) even though the PSP is quite capable of playing MP3's just by dragging them into the PSP/MUSIC folder. So, perhaps the PRO duo is the problem, since the stick that worked is a non-PRO stick. Weird. Fact is, for a proprietary format, the whole memory stick history is a joke with lack of compatibility etc and now at least 3 or 4 different varieties.

[hobgoblin]

anyone planing to do a stresstest on the latest software and see if they have nailed that tracktrashing bug?

[jadeclaw]

Well, I *HAD* to test it, there had been improvements on the codec side as well, especially LP4@66k gained a bit with a better high range and less artefacts, sounding rounder, LP2@132k improved by a small margin as well, same for LP2@105k.

I have a hard time hearing the differences at LP2@132k now, as they are less obvious than with 2.3.

HiLP@64k didn't gain much and is losing out to LP4, which now sounds better - except for the channel separation.

But that will be unfixable for LP4, as that is a fault in the design.

However, LP4 or HiLP@64k is a bit a matter of taste, which type of artefacts is less disturbing.

HiLP@48k hasn't gained any progress and is still unsuitable for music.

Playback via SonicStage has improved as well, LP4 and HiLP profit here the most.

That's it for now and this month, as I kicked it off the machine and reinstalled 2.3 + restore, until I have rigged the track info on my library, so that the sorting mechanism in 3.0 doesn't break my way of organizing my stuff.

A switch to keep the old mode would have been great.

Btw, I think the new Icons for Albums and playlists suck. I will find and save the ones from 2.3.

[cylon]

This is an excerpt from the Help Menu with regards to differences from earlier versions of SS.

1. In SonicStage Version 2.0 or later, the SonicStage music database is called "My Library." In earlier versions this was called "Music Drive."

2. In SonicStage Version 2.0 or later, tracks are placed in and managed by an "album." In earlier versions this was called a "Playlist."

Albums act the same as Playlists.

For example, when importing tracks from an audio CD, an album is automatically created with the same name as the audio CD. Hint

If you updated to SonicStage Version 3.0 or later from an earlier version, all the former Playlists are automatically converted and displayed as albums.

3. You can create a custom playlist according to your preferences. In SonicStage Version 2.x, such a playlist is called a "My Compilation Album," and in SonicStage 3.0 or later is called a "playlist." A playlist is displayed with on the screen (unless an image for the cover art has been registered, in which case the image is shown instead.)

4. SonicStage Version 2.0 or later does not create "Playlist Folders" like earlier versions did.

In SonicStage Version 2.0 or later, albums can be arranged in a single list and sorted in various ways; allowing greater flexibility in management.

However, you can edit "Playlist Folders" created by an earlier version of SonicStage. Refer to "Editing a Playlist Folder ("Edit My Library Folders" Dialog Box)" for details.

Hint

Edited Playlist Folders can be shared with other programs, such as VAIO Media, using the SonicStage music database (My Library).

5. SonicStage Version 2.0 or later does not create a "Favorite Playlist" like earlier versions did. This was used to maintain a list your favorite tracks.

In the current version of SonicStage, you can create a custom playlist according to your preferences. (Such an album is called a "playlist," and is displayed with on the screen.)

6. In SonicStage Version 2.0 or later, "transfer" is a generic term encompassing both "check-in/out" and "move-in."

For clarification (when necessary), the "check-in" operation is further described as "transferring (back) tracks to My Library," and the "move-in" operation is described as "importing tracks into My Library."

7. In SonicStage Version 2.0 or later, the remaining transfer count of a track is indicated in a column in the track list. It is also indicated in the "Track Properties" dialog box (as it was in earlier versions).

Edited March 4, 2005 by cylon

[garyc]

downloading now

[bug80]

Well, I *HAD* to test it, there had been improvements on the codec side as well, especially LP4@66k gained a bit with a better high range and less artefacts, sounding rounder, LP2@132k improved by a small margin as well, same for LP2@105k.

I have a hard time hearing the differences at LP2@132k now, as they are less obvious than with 2.3.

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I did a quick test also (last post in the thread) and LP2@132 did improve indeed. I didn't have any problems with hearing the remaining artifacts, though (ABX result of 16 out of 16). To me, LP2 is just far from transparent, even when listening in a noisy environment.

Edited March 4, 2005 by bug80

[xispe]

I have to say that these are major improvements!

The interface is faster, easier... now we have playlists. Everything runs smooth!

On the codec side, i've encoded by mistake some music in Hi-LP and wow... the encoding is much better. Then i encoded in Hi-SP and even better!

[Michael1980]

So, what is the final word for us UK users? Is it worth it to install this, or should we wait for our own version?

[zerodB]

So, what is the final word for us UK users? Is it worth it to install this, or should we wait for our own version?

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Unless you have any real need to use the CONNECT-EURO online music store, then I wouldn't bother waiting and just get the US version.

Note that Connect Support (euro/us/mora) in the MDCF SonicStage ver 3.0 installer will be optional.

[Ryzir]

Here are my thougths on SS 3.0:

Overall design is basically the same however it does feel alot faster although not as smooth. I like how you are now able to change track information without have to "right click" > "Properties".

I also noticed that you have the option to leave the track on the MD when transferring to your computer. I don't have a Hi-Md that can record externally so I wasn't able to test this. And it does say that only analog recordings can be transferred to wav. I take this as being the same as 2.3. You are able to upload digital and analog but are only able to convert analog to WAV for use with other programs. Himdrenderer should still be able to convert the digital files to WAV.

I too wish that SS would support FLAC as I have about 200GB of them, however it does support WMA Lossless. I did some tests and was not very pleased. The convert and transfer times were not horrible but not fast either. But my bigest problem with SS is that if you import tracks from your computer they are not "gapless" either in SS or when transfer to the MD. The only way I have been able to get gapless is to make a "Image" of the cd (Nero) and use nero image drive to mout the image then import to SS. It would be nice to not have to do all this to import, it takes forever!!

Another dislike is all the restrictions. I do not like to use the backup tool to keep all my converted files safe. I like to tweak windows and other programs to their limits and have crashed my OS numerous times. With SS I have to have two of everything, Active & Backup. Waste of HDD space if you ask me. Why not instead make your installation of SS password protected. Everytime you install SS you enter in your password and this keeps your hardware id the same enabling you to re-import your library.

anyway that's as far as I have dug into SS 3.0

[grf]

Hi,

Just reading the thread on the SS 3.0.

I am sure that sony are doing something funny with access to the SS 3.0 installer site linked in this thread for users in Europe.

When I tried the link I got the 2.3 upgrade.

I cannot 'see' the US connect site directly with the browser.

Would love confirmation of this from oher UK/Europe MD'ers

Best regards

Graham

[bug80]

Hi,

Just reading the thread on the SS 3.0.

I am sure that sony are doing something funny with access to the SS 3.0 installer site linked in this thread for users in Europe.

When I tried the link I got the 2.3 upgrade.

I cannot 'see' the US connect site directly with the browser.

Would love confirmation of this from oher UK/Europe MD'ers

Best regards

Graham

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I had no problems here in the Netherlands. Connect (US) shows up also. But if I'm correct The Netherlands doesn't have its own Connect site, so maybe that explains why it's working?

[Arto Suomi]

I'm still a bit confused about the "album" and "playlist" stuff in SS 3.0...

Does the installation program create the new "albums" from the existing albums, or does it use the "source" information from the tracks? The pop-up window that comes up in the beginning of the installation suggests it's the latter, but reading the posts here I get the impression it's the the former.

The reason I'm asking is that I have a lot of tracks that are imported from WAVs, and those have "source" set to "untitled". And since I have deleted the WAVs, Sonic Stage does not let me edit the track properties. So if the SS 3.0 uses the "source" information as the basis for creating the albums, then my library would be messed up if I upgrade.

[pete_w]

Hi,

Just reading the thread on the SS 3.0.

I am sure that sony are doing something funny with access to the SS 3.0 installer site linked in this thread for users in Europe.

When I tried the link I got the 2.3 upgrade.

I cannot 'see' the US connect site directly with the browser.

Would love confirmation of this from oher UK/Europe MD'ers

Best regards

Graham

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Worked fine for me (UK).

[minidisc3]

I had no problems here in the Netherlands. Connect (US) shows up also. But if I'm correct The Netherlands doesn't have its own Connect site, so maybe that explains why it's working?

←

The Netherlands has it's own Connect music store.

I succeeded in getting the Dutch connect in SS 3.0 by tweaking the registry. Everywhere I found www.connect.com, I removed the complete link and changed it to www.connect-europe.com. Haven't tried if downloading from connect in Holland actually works with SS 3.0.

be careful with the registry!

Marco

[hpmoon]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I have a 512MB Memory Duo Pro and SS 3.0 clearly states that this isn't MG technology and will not download to it.

Sony wonders why Apple is kicking so much butt with the iPod and iTunes. I have given up on iPods after REALLY listening to the quality difference between them and HiMD. I know I will regret having to deal with the hassels of Sonic Stage, but WOW, I guess I just don' appreciate the neutral sound the iPod has. Anywho, I picked up a HiMD unit today (just the 600D for now) and am pleasantly suprised.

Even though I have given up on the iPod, many many folks haven't. And I can truly appreciate the intergration between all the iPods and iTunes. Why cannot Sony accomplish this? Look at my situation. I have a new HiMD unit which works fine with SS 3.0. I have also have a nifty PSP that plays mp3s (drag and drop). According to the manual, the PSP will play ATRAC. I can drag and drop them, but I cannot get them to play. Sonic Stage recognizes my PSP as "PSP (memory stick)" but will not copy songs to it. 

You would think that Sony would make sure their new toy worked with their music program.  Sony is so trying to cover so many bases, and they COULD do this if they would just intergrate all their devices to Sonic Stage (or iTunes - I wish!!!) If Sony would only add mp3 encoding as well as 100% compatibility with all their products: Clie, PSP, HiMD, Pocket Vaio, etc. they would have some very happy customers. They won't dethrone the iPod, but at least they might gain more customers.

Do I hear a "Hell Yes"??

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First of all, you are getting a big Hell Yes out of me! The problem you point out is seriously one of the most perplexing in the entire consumer electronics industry. Sony is just being dead stupid, and is making dumb excuses.

When I heard that SonicStage 3.0 had been released, I was excited for the very specific reason that I thought Sony would finally recognize Memory Stick Pros (which are MagicGate media), but as we've found out, Sony still does not.

The reason? I've tried for months to find out, and have really almost harrassed Sony's Clie and MD support divisions for an answer. After reaching a "Level 2" support manager, I found that the bottom line is this: the executives at Sony's Connect, which controls SonicStage, is at war with the executives at Sony's hardware divisions. It's a dead-end disagreement where the Connect executives want ATRAC-only, while the hardware executives want (and have already implemented) the option of ATRAC or MP3. You would think that the Connect division would have developed their SonicStage software to recognize Memory Sticks any larger than 128mb (i.e., their Pro media) that are nonetheless MagicGate certified (read the label on the media!) -- all that could do is bolster its insistence on an ATRAC-only world. But because the fight is a deadlock, even the Connect division hasn't deployed Memory Stick Pro compatibility.

We all know that ATRAC3plus is dramatically superior to the MP3 format, and even superior to Apple's own iPod format -- smaller files and lower bitrates with superior fidelity, and lower power consumption.

I wrestled for some time with the question of why on Earth Sony would be so incredibly stupid, and so incredibly stubborn when the engineering task -- to simply recognize a Memory Stick Pro as legitimate -- would be as easy as turning on a switch. Sony does, after all, stubbornly advocate its own proprietary Memory Sticks for media and ATRAC3plus for codec. But after talking to as many Sony employees as I could, I realized that at the end of the day, this problem is the result of a bratty argument between executives at Sony.

They should be ashamed, but more practically, they should start paying attention. We're peeved.

[emmrecs]

Hi,

Just reading the thread on the SS 3.0.

I am sure that sony are doing something funny with access to the SS 3.0 installer site linked in this thread for users in Europe.

When I tried the link I got the 2.3 upgrade.

I cannot 'see' the US connect site directly with the browser.

Would love confirmation of this from oher UK/Europe MD'ers

Best regards

Graham

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Downloaded installer from link at the head of this thread, ran it, told me I already had the latest version installed (I have 2.3). Am also in the UK.

Jeff

Edited March 4, 2005 by emmrecs

[konrad]

Hi any ideas why i cant connect to the gracenote cddb database? using sonicstage 3.0 i downloaded from the .rar file that was linked to the site. when i first fired it up after instalation sonicstage hung during the setup when it was going to scan my computer for playable files so i had to skip that stage.

When i ask it to get the details of a cd, it tells me to register with gracenote and when i click yes, nothing happens.

any ideas?

thanks.

[Christopher]

We removed that download link as we can't verify the integrity of that installation. I advise uninstalling and installing the official release.

[MZ-NH1]

Are you saying Chris, that the link at the 1st post in this topic might not be absolutley legiy?? If yes, then where is the official link please?

As I can't see it in this topic anywhere.

[Ryzir]

Here is the link to 3.0 from connect.com

http://musicstore.connect.com/mb_us/IESignup.flow

[Christopher]

No, I was referring to the topic linking a *.rar file that was posted on the same day of the Sonicstage 3 release.

[Michael1980]

3.0 is pretty nice. Faster and better interface, but still no smart playlists. Hoping for them in the future.

[Eryn Vorn]

Here is the link to 3.0 from connect.com

http://musicstore.connect.com/mb_us/IESignup.flow

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This doesn't work with Firefox as IE5.5+ is SONY's mandatory browser. LOL.

[atrain]

works fine for me i d/led it yesterday while this thread was still on page one. uses a little more ram but feels 'better' than 2.3. more of an evolutionary than revolutionary change but the right direction? i'm convinced.

[Rumz]

I'm interested in said improvements in encoding quality. How significant would you say they are for Hi-SP? I may have to give LP2 @ 132k another listen too... I've yet to download SS 3.0 English, I'm afraid of what it'll do to my library

[yoshi2k]

No, I was referring to the topic linking a *.rar file that was posted on the same day of the Sonicstage 3 release.

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yer that was posted by me and then removed because not official link. there was a problem with the .rar the driver folder was corrupt but if you want can give you a link to the latest one i have made. it works fine.

[streaml1ne]

I'm interested in said improvements in encoding quality.  How significant would you say they are for Hi-SP?  I may have to give LP2 @ 132k another listen too...  I've yet to download SS 3.0 English, I'm afraid of what it'll do to my library

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While it's not a listening test, the spectral graphs are certainly different between 2.3 and 3.0 for both LP2 and HiLP, though in different ways for each. LP2 in 3.0 looks like it's much more decimated in the upper frequencies. HiLP on the other hand looks less decimated higher up in 3.0 than it does in 2.3. Hopefully listening to HiLP will reveal differences, significant or otherwise.

[peare]

I dont know if this is encoding faster or better, all I know it has messed up all my library. I am a classical listener, and now I see some of my opera albums have been divided into different albums containing 1 track in one the rest in a different album; or concertos in 1 album now scattered in numerous different albums... then again all regrouped in 1 playlist. This is really confusing. Too many entries for 1 album have been created. I havent been too much fan of SS 3.0 since I downloaded and started using it since yesterday. I dont know whether this is the real and final ver. of SS 3.0, but if this is the case, I can say again that Sony should stop writing software.

[jadeclaw]

Welcome to the 'Untitled Album'-World of SonicStage 3.0.

Solution: Remove it. Install 2.3 again. Restore Library from your Backup.

You do have a current Backup? Do you?

If not, stick with 3.0 and start sorting...

[peare]

Welcome to the 'Untitled Album'-World of SonicStage 3.0.

Solution: Remove it. Install 2.3 again. Restore Library from your Backup.

You do have a current Backup? Do you?

If not, stick with 3.0 and start sorting...

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Yes I had a backup which was more than 6gig... short on space I had to delete it hoping to create another backup soon... now its too late.

BTW, what was that album which contained 1656 tracks? I deleted that one too and lost many of my oma files and albums: now they have 0 tracks each. Damn you Sony!!!!!

[ozpeter]

Is this link any different from the above for downloading?

[MZ-NH1]

Yeh I noticed the Album thing too!

What is with that!

You go sort by Album, and it does some extremely strange thing. It sorts it by like artist of the Album, so one of my Albums has 30 different composers, so it goes and has a line of 30 composers under that album, which each artist has 1 track under their name!

I'll try and get a screen shot of this for you to see.

It is extremely annoying!

EDIT** Sorry, looks like I was looking/searching the wrong fields... sorry.

And my problem above ^^ seems to have fixed itself over night...

[dex Otaku]

Two interesting things while fiddling with SS 3 today..

First, the first time I tried to upload things, I got this dialogue:

[attachmentid=84]

Hmm. Gee. Never noticed that before. Thumbs up on this one.

Second was that during the transfers, the window is slightly different:

[attachmentid=85]

Progress in a nice box in the top corner. No more annoying popup. But.. it never asked me where to put my transfer, so I'm assuming it'll go into an untitled folder..

The most interesting thing.. one of the things I was suggesting months ago, of automatically naming files with the upload date+time at the least.. note that this appears to be happening here.

Very cool.

This is progress.

============

edit:

Indeed. Interesting results with the imported files, especially that "year released" column:

[attachmentid=86]

Proof that the auto-renaming took. Note my own filenaming system just above SS's autonaming:

[attachmentid=87]

It's not perfect, but it's definitely more functional than before.

[Christopher]

Nice points and 'caps there, Dex..perhaps them Sony people are paying attention after all. That first screenshot nearly made me cough on my water I was drinking, Sony actually put some thought into this! Rejoice!

I wonder if this version is completely impervious to uploading woes - there was a few cases of botching even with 2.3, but were rare. The *.wav converter is nice, but I'll take Marc's kthx.

[dex Otaku]

I wonder if this version is completely impervious to uploading woes - there was a few cases of botching even with 2.3, but were rare. The *.wav converter is nice, but I'll take Marc's kthx.

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That's what I'm testing. I might go out later and record a few hours at HiSP to see things fare. Maybe I should see how long the battery lasts again. Think I can record for 7 hours at HiSP on a single alkaline? [i have before.]

This reminds me, though, that the only thing the NH1 held as interesting to me was its auto time/date stamping.

[Leland]

Another thing I have noticed, when I import some MP3 files, it seems to come up with album art. Does it go find this or would it be embedded in the MP3 file somehow?

[MZ-NH1]

Can I get this straight. I have just recorded a Concert I was playing in, and it went for 4 hrs...

I am now uploading the MD recording to my computer, and it seems to be uploading in real time!!!! is this true? Or what? Because it is taking a very long time to upload the tracks to my pc!

In addition, what des it mean when it changes from percentage done, to a time? Is the time saying how much it has uploaded, or how much longer the upload will take?

[atrain]

Another thing I have noticed, when I import some MP3 files, it seems to come up with album art.  Does it go find this or would it be embedded in the MP3 file somehow?

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some newer cds have album art as part of the CDDB authentification. itunes does it for some albums too.

if you like the look - & i do just search amazon for any of the library that dont do it & steal thumbnails... whooo shiny library